Lack of Talent?

[FireFoley]

Florida falls to LSU - Read & Reaction

Florida falls to LSU - The Gators defense got embarrassed by LSU. Who is to blame, and is there any reason to hope it will get better?

www.readandreaction.com

Lack of recruiting isn’t an excuse for missed assignments and poor scheme. It’s not an excuse for overrunning gaps and missing tackles. These guys are plenty talented to be able to compete with a team like LSU.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

Defensive players may not be as good as their ratings but they ain't as bad as they're performing either. But at least you can say that at one time a lot of people thought they were better than average.
Patrick Toney on the other hand is a 31 year old with two years of experience in essentially Div 2. There is no evidence that he is capable. And so far he's living up to expectations.

I have to repeat that. UF, an SEC team, who has competed for and won national championships has a DC that is a 31 year old with two years of experience in Div 2.

We're stuck with Napier, good or bad, for a few years. But if, like Mullen, he sticks with under performing assistants it's going to be a bad few years.

 

[GatorInGeorgia]

Are you saying if Saban or Meyer walked in in the sling with this same roster we’d be in the same position with the same record? Same with Spurrier?

The answer is no, we wouldn’t.

 

[Joegator96]

It never ceases to amaze me the mental and verbal gymnastics the pumpers do to justify shytty coaches and players.

Wow, just to set the record straight everyone here says recruiting is the key. We need nothing less than four stars with 5 stars mixed in. "Mullen was lazy and took anybody he could get." Take a look at the top 8 DB's in the LSU depth chart. Most recruited by Mullen a couple by BN and it is comprised of 6 four stars and two 5 stars, one the top rated DB in the nation. Saying we don't have talent is BS. Pre-season all the experts said UF strength on D was it's DB's, weak at DL weak at LB.

I wish I had a rational explanation why the top CB coach in the nation, Raymond and a respected safety coach, Toney can't get these highly related players to perform 7 weeks into the season.

Rating by different services who sit a laptops and watch edited tape of HS players doesn't make them players at the next level. Great coaching and teaching of fundamentals, schemes they can execute, and changing course when the plan isn't working are the hallmarks of great teams led by competent staff.

I support Napier and staff, I expected better fundamentals, better execution and positive progress each week. I am not seeing what I wanted to see so let's put it where it belongs. They have to coach who is on the team. Each year you eliminate some and add some. Currently we suck in pass defense, scheme and execution of skills.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

That said, we've been sold a bill of goods with many of these players.

This and the "all star transfers" Kimber and Cox are here for a reason....They weren't good enough to be #3's on UGA's depth chart.....

 

[jdh5484]

I know what the root cause is for all of it.

It's not coaching.

It's not development.

It's not talent.

It's not scheme.




It's the new facilities.

 

[GatorInGeorgia]

It’s not a lack of talent, it’s predominantly coaching & scheme.

I’ve said for years, probably as far back as the old board, that you don’t need to have top 3 classes to compete for & win NCs. What is needed is 1) having a high quality head coach & staff who run a good scheme & coach their players up and 2) having consistently good (great is not needed) recruiting classes. Being top 10-12 & having balanced classes (meaning you can’t pull a Muschamp & have a top 3 class that has 23 defensive players and 2 guys on the offensive side) will get the job done. Go get our fair, proportionate share of the Top 200 players in Florida as the nucleus of the roster & with very good to great coaching, everything else will fall into place.

Neither Tennessee nor Ole Miss have anywhere near as much talent as we do but guess what…they have coaches that run high octane offensive schemes successfully and they’re both undefeated & ranked in the Top 10. Texas A&am on the other hand has a boatload if talent yet their head coach is an overrated douche and it shows with 3 losses season to date, coming off a poor season last year.

Would it be nice to have top 3 ranked classes? Sure, if you have a great staff to coach them, but it doesn’t do much good if your head. coach is average or worse. Look no further than Jimbo Fisher, or Ron Zook for that matter. And when you do coach your guys up & start to win, guess what? Your class rankings will get better as the recruits see the success on the field.

 

[NVGator]

It’s not a lack of talent, it’s predominantly coaching & scheme.

I’ve said for years, probably as far back as the old board, that you don’t need to have top 3 classes to compete for & win NCs. What is needed is 1) having a high quality head coach & staff who run a good scheme & coach their players up and 2) having consistently good (great is not needed) recruiting classes. Being top 10-12 & having balanced classes (meaning you can’t pull a Muschamp & have a top 3 class that has 23 defensive players and 2 guys on the offensive side) will get the job done. Go get our fair, proportionate share of the Top 200 players in Florida as the nucleus of the roster & with very good to great coaching, everything else will fall into place.

Neither Tennessee nor Ole Miss have anywhere near as much talent as we do but guess what…they have coaches that run high octane offensive schemes successfully and they’re both undefeated & ranked in the Top 10. Texas A&am on the other hand has a boatload if talent yet their head coach is an overrated douche and it shows with 3 losses season to date, coming off a poor season last year.

Would it be nice to have top 3 ranked classes? Sure, if you have a great staff to coach them, but it doesn’t do much good if your head. coach is average or worse. Look no further than Jimbo Fisher, or Ron Zook for that matter. And when you do coach your guys up & start to win, guess what? Your class rankings will get better as the recruits see the success on the field.

 

[Daryl]

Why is it under 2 staffs now that a guy like Wingo can’t get significant time on the field? He was supposed to be a beast.
I figured losing Moon, Diabate and Hopper would open the door for him.

 

[soflagator]

Why is it under 2 staffs now that a guy like Wingo can’t get significant time on the field? He was supposed to be a beast.
I figured losing Moon, Diabate and Hopper would open the door for him.

He was always undersized. But just to be clear, are we counting a GA position coach under a DC who’s now just an analyst, and now a SunBelt DC as being the final word on him? You don’t think there’s any chance those two staffs just aren’t very good? Because the first one has already been decided as such, and the second one has proven nothing outside of some G5 success.

 

[Daryl]

So Coach Peterson isn’t vouching for him?

 

[soflagator]

So Coach Peterson isn’t vouching for him?

I don’t care the name. Sadly, I hate the idea of MP not working out here, but again, there’s nothing that I’ve seen from this staff(outside of Raymond) that says they’re in position to call any player good or bad.

Again, none of us are saying that the defense is loaded with the exact type in size of talent we need. But you can still scheme things in a way that makes sense and plays to their respective strengths. I’ve said elsewhere, but to reiterate, Meyer won a NC with guys like Brian Crum at LB, and a secondary where the starters were a converted WR and a transfer from Utah, being subbed out at times by the McCollum twins. Were there stars like RFN, Harvey, Siler? Of course. But to imply that any new coach doesn’t have some serious holes in his roster is insane. We won 9 games(would be 10 in the new format) in 2005 and a NC the next. None of us are demanding that. But looking competent and not being ranked dead last in several categories is something quite different.

 

[Spurdog98]

What team has Saban ever coached that had more talent than any NC team he's coached at Bama? My vote is the Miami Dolphins. How many games did they win at Miami and how long did he last? Talent is only one part albeit a bid damn part but I've seen the U.S olympic basketball team not even make it to the medal round even though that talent was at least equal to or better than in other. I've seen an inferior U.S hockey team take down the Soviets in the Olympics. It's a part but not the only part. All of the other teams we lost to... UK and UT have had their staff in place longer than a year. Tony Elliott at UVA and they are struggling to score when they had one of the highest scoring offenses in the country with pretty much the same personnel. Guess where Oklahoma's defense is ranked in pts allowed..way behind us with Venables as the head coach.

 

[Spurdog98]

I don’t care the name. Sadly, I hate the idea of MP not working out here, but again, there’s nothing that I’ve seen from this staff(outside of Raymond) that says they’re in position to call any player good or bad.

Again, none of us are saying that the defense is loaded with the exact type in size of talent we need. But you can still scheme things in a way that makes sense and plays to their respective strengths. I’ve said elsewhere, but to reiterate, Meyer won a NC with guys like Brian Crum at LB, and a secondary where the starters were a converted WR and a transfer from Utah, being subbed out at times by the McCollum twins. Were there stars like RFN, Harvey, Siler? Of course. But to imply that any new coach doesn’t have some serious holes in his roster is insane. We won 9 games(would be 10 in the new format) in 2005 and a NC the next. None of us are demanding that. But looking competent and not being ranked dead last in several categories is something quite different.

I've seen nothing from the posters on this board that says they're in a position to call any coach good or bad..not 7 games into the first season.

 

[jdh5484]

I don’t care the name. Sadly, I hate the idea of MP not working out here, but again, there’s nothing that I’ve seen from this staff(outside of Raymond) that says they’re in position to call any player good or bad.

Again, none of us are saying that the defense is loaded with the exact type in size of talent we need. But you can still scheme things in a way that makes sense and plays to their respective strengths. I’ve said elsewhere, but to reiterate, Meyer won a NC with guys like Brian Crum at LB, and a secondary where the starters were a converted WR and a transfer from Utah, being subbed out at times by the McCollum twins. Were there stars like RFN, Harvey, Siler? Of course. But to imply that any new coach doesn’t have some serious holes in his roster is insane. We won 9 games(would be 10 in the new format) in 2005 and a NC the next. None of us are demanding that. But looking competent and not being ranked dead last in several categories is something quite different.

That transfer from Utah was a key to that NC. Take him out and we don't play in it. (not that he was that good but he was a key cog in the secondary)

BN will adjust the scheme during the bye, just like Meyer did in 2005 during the bye.

 

[Egor's Assistant]

I've seen nothing from the posters on this board that says they're in a position to call any coach good or bad..not 7 games into the first season.

Dude, we have correctly predicted every coaching bust from the last decade plus. GatorChatter is the authority on underperformance.

 

[Spurdog98]

Oh for Fk sake. You guys were all over Muschamps dick and excited about Mac butters when he was beating Ugay and going to back to back SECCG. As usual some like and some don't. Lets look at the success of the coaches that were preferred to what we got?

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Kimber was told he was getting passed up and 17th in tackles just means Cox wasn't good enough to get on the field except clean up time.....sometimes your mental gymnastics are incredible to even attempt yet you do anyway....