Top 10 Positives About McElwain Going into Season 2

GatorTom85

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My biggest positive about Mac is he is an excellent gameday coach.

1. Number 6 means little to me because if Mac doesn't hit some homeruns in recruiting this year, we'll have one of the worst defenses in the SEC in 2017.
2. We are NOT 2 deep when guys like Riles, Harkless and Mike are one injury away from significant playing time.

1) I guess it depends on what you think of as a "Home run" since recruiting stars, though definitely important in helping to assess potential talent initially for us fans, are nowhere near a real indicator on true value delivered. Otherwise Treon Harris (4 star) and Austin Hardin (5 star) would have delivered a great deal more value than say a Brian Cox, Jr. (3 star), Joey Ivie (3 star), Jarrad Davis (3 star), or Johnny Townsend (2 star). In fact there was a recent article that Coach Mac's most recent class may have several 3 stars who were underrated. (see https://www.seccountry.com/florida/...ommits-proving-to-be-better-than-their-rating).

2) The definition of 2-deep is having backups available at each position. Apparently you don't think those guys are viable options which I guess is possible, but I was referring to last year's offensive line where there were literally no backups for some positions except for platoons and using guys who to play completely outside their position (like when one of the Pouncey twins had to switch to D when Urban had a similar problem).

Ultimately I think we have far too few data points at this point to fully assess MacElwain on recruiting. Early returns, however, would seem to me to be way more positive than negative as evidenced by the article on underrated 3 stars referenced above, the large contributions from his new additions on last year's team (especially given the abbreviated recruitment period he had that year), and the very large class of early enrollees this year.

You are welcome to think otherwise if you want to (it being a free country and all) but I think your evidence is way too limited right now to be able to make a convincing case that Mac is failing in recruiting. For me the jury is probably still out but early signs look pretty positive especially when you consider that we had a solid recruiting class this year in spite of how awful we were the second half of the season last year (which is to be expected when you have a QB who can't throw and a kicker who can't kick).

P.S. I agree that Coach Mac seems to also be an excellent game day coach especially when his QB is actually able to play the position beyond being a glorified RB.
 

GatorTom85

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Although we won more games last year, we were no longer the top dog when it came to time of possesion...

I am going to assume this is meant to be sarcastic because I have a hard time believing anyone would seriously try to make the case that winning time of possession is superior to winning in the final score.

Given Muschamp's apparent challenges in understanding this basic principal, however, your sarcasm is not misplaced.
 

rogdochar

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Seems solid logic, GatorTom. You'll be enjoying our 2016 performances better than others.
 

T REX

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The gameday coach is absolutely hilarious. Barely squeaking by Vandy and overtime versus FAU then getting obliterated against Bama, FSU and the bowl game. The guy couldn't get the team to play a bowl game well. A worthless bowl game. I think he was 2-4 vs ranked teams. Not sure how that equates to excellent gameday coaching.

That fake FG against the Hat was AWFUL game day coaching. The jury is out on Mac all around. Here's to proving my ass wrong.
 

Swamp Donkey

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The gameday coach is absolutely hilarious.
Why, because he couldn't fabricate a functional offensive line from true freshmen or find a QB when he got left one Me First Douchebag who got himself banned, a spread guy who is run first (and was when he was signed) and a bunch of walkons?

The flaming bag of shyt Mac got left started under Creyer, when we first thought it was a good idea to sign only two OL (both of whom were low 3 star reaches with no other top offers, I might add)? Kids in HS don't even remember when we had an offense, those that do remember an offense where everyone else watches while the QB runs the ball 30 times.

LAST year wasn't on Mac and getting 10 damn wins with that embarrassment of an OL was one helluva an accomplishment.
 
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Swamp Donkey

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I am going to assume this is meant to be sarcastic because I have a hard time believing anyone would seriously try to make the case that winning time of possession is superior to winning in the final score.

Given Muschamp's apparent challenges in understanding this basic principal, however, your sarcasm is not misplaced.
Dm_110927_ncf_muschamp_sot.jpg
 

gatormandan

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The gameday coach is absolutely hilarious. Barely squeaking by Vandy and overtime versus FAU then getting obliterated against Bama, FSU and the bowl game. The guy couldn't get the team to play a bowl game well. A worthless bowl game. I think he was 2-4 vs ranked teams. Not sure how that equates to excellent gameday coaching.

That fake FG against the Hat was AWFUL game day coaching. The jury is out on Mac all around. Here's to proving my ass wrong.

You could do better I am sure. It was nearly a miracle what he pulled off last year with what he had to work with.
 

rogdochar

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Last year of 10 wins couldn't even qualify as a rebuilding year. A post-chumpanzy year should be
2-3 years away from the launch of a rebuildable year. But McCrew got us 10 wins. Our climb has just
begun.
 

maheo30

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2) The definition of 2-deep is having backups available at each position. Apparently you don't think those guys are viable options which I guess is possible, but I was referring to last year's offensive line where there were literally no backups for some positions except for platoons and using guys who to play completely outside their position (like when one of the Pouncey twins had to switch to D when Urban had a similar problem).

Ultimately I think we have far too few data points at this point to fully assess MacElwain on recruiting.

We disagree as to the definition of 2-deep. FSU, Bama, or LSU has a player injured they have a viable option as the backup. We do not. Mac is fixing that but it takes time. I'm optimistic about Mac. In his first recruiting cycle he knew he needed bodies on the o-line and brought in 6 guys. In his second recruiting cycle he knew he needed talent at QB and WR and brought in a ton of guys while also bringing in more o-linemen. Now he desperately needs DTs and LBs and seems to be making that his major focus. We will see.
 

GatorTom85

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The gameday coach is absolutely hilarious. Barely squeaking by Vandy and overtime versus FAU then getting obliterated against Bama, FSU and the bowl game. The guy couldn't get the team to play a bowl game well. A worthless bowl game. I think he was 2-4 vs ranked teams. Not sure how that equates to excellent gameday coaching.

That fake FG against the Hat was AWFUL game day coaching. The jury is out on Mac all around. Here's to proving my ass wrong.

You do realize that every game you referenced was after Performance Enhancement Boy (not technically accurate to call him Steroid Boy) had his fall from grace? If so, I am curious what kind of adjustments you would expect when:

a) the team had only 1 QB on the roster (the Vandy transfer notwithstanding) and that QB apparently had lost whatever capacity he ever had to throw passes even when the target was wide open and there was relatively little pressure,
b) the team had no kicker who could dependably make a field goal (at least after the walk-on was injured anyway),
c) the offensive line was a smoke and mirrors act at best (remember a Fordham transfer was (thankfully) one of our best on the Oline last year),
d) the RBs, though talented, were not really capable of taking over a game especially when we were so 1 dimensional that there was literally no reason whatsoever for the defense to worry about a pass play (I am not sure Emmitt Smith could have really made any headway at that point).

By the time the LSU game was over, whatever surprise factor there was with Harris was exposed and we were shown to be entirely crippled on offense. Even so we somehow beat Georgia (though UGA admittedly had a lot to do with that), USC, and Vandy to secure the East and we even found a way to beat Florida Atlantic when we could have easily let that one slip away.

Even with one of the best defenses in the country, our QB catastrophe with Grier left us with a team that was not really better than any of those bottom feeder teams, including FAU, but we found a way to win anyway. That to me is an accomplishment rather than a failure. Muschamp certainly didn't come through as well when he was faced with a similar challenge in 2013.

Given all of these challenges, are you really that surprised by the fact that FSU, Bama and Michigan clobbered us? The defense was the main reason we won those last 4 games against lesser opponents because they made it so we only needed to score a little to win. Unfortunately, however, that was our only way to win and the D was never going to be able to completely shut down Bama, FSU or even Michigan like that. I think the Michigan game is the only one that was really close to being a coaching failure simply because the defense didn't show up for that game. I can't really blame them, though, since they knew better than we did that the QB wasn't likely to learn how to throw or the kicker to kick over just the Christmas break.

I therefore think you have a really unrealistic opinion about last season and, as such, I think your assessment of Coach Mac's gameday skills lacks the necessary perspective to be taken very seriously.
 

T REX

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You do realize that every game you referenced was after Performance Enhancement Boy (not technically accurate to call him Steroid Boy) had his fall from grace? If so, I am curious what kind of adjustments you would expect when:

a) the team had only 1 QB on the roster (the Vandy transfer notwithstanding) and that QB apparently had lost whatever capacity he ever had to throw passes even when the target was wide open and there was relatively little pressure,
b) the team had no kicker who could dependably make a field goal (at least after the walk-on was injured anyway),
c) the offensive line was a smoke and mirrors act at best (remember a Fordham transfer was (thankfully) one of our best on the Oline last year),
d) the RBs, though talented, were not really capable of taking over a game especially when we were so 1 dimensional that there was literally no reason whatsoever for the defense to worry about a pass play (I am not sure Emmitt Smith could have really made any headway at that point).

By the time the LSU game was over, whatever surprise factor there was with Harris was exposed and we were shown to be entirely crippled on offense. Even so we somehow beat Georgia (though UGA admittedly had a lot to do with that), USC, and Vandy to secure the East and we even found a way to beat Florida Atlantic when we could have easily let that one slip away.

Even with one of the best defenses in the country, our QB catastrophe with Grier left us with a team that was not really better than any of those bottom feeder teams, including FAU, but we found a way to win anyway. That to me is an accomplishment rather than a failure. Muschamp certainly didn't come through as well when he was faced with a similar challenge in 2013.

Given all of these challenges, are you really that surprised by the fact that FSU, Bama and Michigan clobbered us? The defense was the main reason we won those last 4 games against lesser opponents because they made it so we only needed to score a little to win. Unfortunately, however, that was our only way to win and the D was never going to be able to completely shut down Bama, FSU or even Michigan like that. I think the Michigan game is the only one that was really close to being a coaching failure simply because the defense didn't show up for that game. I can't really blame them, though, since they knew better than we did that the QB wasn't likely to learn how to throw or the kicker to kick over just the Christmas break.

I therefore think you have a really unrealistic opinion about last season and, as such, I think your assessment of Coach Mac's gameday skills lacks the necessary perspective to be taken very seriously.

That might be a pumper record for excuses and rationalizations. Kudos to you sir. So this year? No excuses right? For being some offensive guru he had his ass handed to him. He couldn't even come up with some gimmick offense for the bowl game. Let's see how he does in the SEC not New Mex St.
 

GatorTom85

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We disagree as to the definition of 2-deep. FSU, Bama, or LSU has a player injured they have a viable option as the backup. We do not. Mac is fixing that but it takes time. I'm optimistic about Mac. In his first recruiting cycle he knew he needed bodies on the o-line and brought in 6 guys. In his second recruiting cycle he knew he needed talent at QB and WR and brought in a ton of guys while also bringing in more o-linemen. Now he desperately needs DTs and LBs and seems to be making that his major focus. We will see.

Based on the above, I don't think we really disagree on what we'd like the definition of our 2-deep roster to be! :) I was just pointing out that last year we didn't even have 10 legitimate offensive linemen so by definition we could not really be two deep at 5 positions without doubling up (which we did).

I heartily agree with the rest of your post though! :thumbup: I especially agree with you that Coach Mac has shown a strong ability to recognize areas of need and prioritize getting them addressed (don't forget the priority he made to steal Pineiro from Saban). I can also see the efforts he is making so far with trying to restock the D in the 2017 class. Hopefully he can fill the remaining holes on D that he inherited which, though very important, were less severe needs going into this year than those he had to address with offense and special teams with the 2016 class.

As an aside, how does a supposed defensive recruiting guru like Muschamp allow his LB corps to become depleted to the point we were last year. I shudder to think what would have happened last season if Morrison had not performed a minor medical miracle to get back on the field and play so well less than 9 months after an ACL!:fear:
 

GatorTom85

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That might be a pumper record for excuses and rationalizations. Kudos to you sir. So this year? No excuses right? For being some offensive guru he had his ass handed to him. He couldn't even come up with some gimmick offense for the bowl game. Let's see how he does in the SEC not New Mex St.

I have just 3 questions in response:

1) How is it a rationalization or an excuse to say that winning 4 games in a row to clinch the East was a pretty significant accomplishment, in spite of the 3 ugly losses at the end, given a team with a QB who couldn't throw, a kicker who couldn't kick, and an offensive line with less than 10 guys to choose from that included a Fordham graduate transfer as one of the key starters?

2) What kind of gimmick do you think there is that can suddenly create another dimension for an offense in less than a month's time when there was literally no one who could throw the ball on the team and especially when field goals weren't a legitimate scoring option because the kicker couldn't even be depended on to make an extra point much less a field goal?

3) How's the weather in the fantasy world in which you live? (I assume it is overcast and rainy given your general dreary outlook... :wobble:)
 

T REX

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Coach Mac has shown a strong ability to recognize areas of need and prioritize getting them addressed

So he doesn't have enough o linemen to have a spring game and he makes that a priority? Duh? LB? DT? Recognizing you don't have enough players to practice is an ability? Ok, sure. I feel you are making stuff up at this point.
 

RocketCityGator

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I take it you are a "what have they done for me lately" kind of guy. Must be stressful for you.

Yeah maybe a little bit. But I for me, that was a horrible job of coaching in the bowl game, and frankly, to close out the year. Add in the substandard recruiting, I'm just not sold on Mac. Please let time prove me wrong.
 

Delg8tor

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Why, because he couldn't fabricate a functional offensive line from true freshmen or find a QB when he got left one Me First Douchebag who got himself banned, a spread guy who is run first (and was when he was signed) and a bunch of walkons?

The flaming bag of shyt Mac got left started under Creyer, when we first thought it was a good idea to sign only two OL (both of whom were low 3 star reaches with no other top offers, I might add)? Kids in HS don't even remember when we had an offense, those that do remember an offense where everyone else watches while the QB runs the ball 30 times.

LAST year wasn't on Mac and getting 10 damn wins with that embarrassment of an OL was one helluva an accomplishment.
You better be careful Law! Some of us might start thinking you are a pumper...
 

T REX

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Yeah maybe a little bit. But I for me, that was a horrible job of coaching in the bowl game, and frankly, to close out the year. Add in the substandard recruiting, I'm just not sold on Mac. Please let time prove me wrong.

This is reasonable and logical. And not rooted in fantasy.
 

Delg8tor

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Yeah maybe a little bit. But I for me, that was a horrible job of coaching in the bowl game, and frankly, to close out the year. Add in the substandard recruiting, I'm just not sold on Mac. Please let time prove me wrong.
I get a kick out of people that say this most recent recruiting class is sub-standard. Do you morons not realize that our class was ranked higher than 80-90 other FBS level schools?
Could it have been better? Sure it could. Is it substandard? Absolutely not!!!
 

RocketCityGator

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I get a kick out of people that say this most recent recruiting class is sub-standard. Do you morons not realize that our class was ranked higher than 80-90 other FBS level schools?
Could it have been better? Sure it could. Is it substandard? Absolutely not!!!

Dude, we're not Kentucky or Vandy. It was substandard for Florida.
 

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