Too soon to judge DC Randy Shannon?

BMF

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I didn't know Law's real name was Blake:

It is too soon to judge Florida defensive coordinator Randy Shannon

https://www.seccountry.com/florida/too-soon-to-judge-florida-defensive-coordinator-randy-Shannon

It’s Raw Reaction Week within the Florida fan base, and nobody is being spared.

While offensive coordinator Doug Nussmeier, head coach Jim McElwain and redshirt freshman quarterback Feleipe Franks are the primary focal points of the frustration, there are also fans venting about defensive coordinator Randy Shannon.

And that’s after a 17-16 loss Saturday in which the Florida defense held LSU scoreless for the final quarter-and-a-half and gave the Gators every chance to win …

Yeah, it’s been that kind of week.

Which brings us to the Tuesday Gators Mailbag Question of the Day:

Blake D. asks … “Do you think Randy Shannon has done a good job? I personally don’t.”

It’s way, way, way too soon to render such an opinion about Shannon, who is just five games into his first season as Florida’s defensive coordinator (after two years on the staff as a defensive assistant).

Yes, the Gators’ defense is far more vulnerable than it’s been in recent years, but it would be that way with Geoff Collins, too. This unit has sent two highly talented and experienced groups to the NFL the last two offseasons. Reloading after one of those is tough enough, but after back-to-back exoduses of elite talent there was going to be a drop-off this year. Eight players from the 2016 Gators defense have spent time on NFL rosters in 2017.

Then throw in the loss of fifth-year senior safety Marcell Harris to a season-ending right Achilles tendon injury before camp even started. We highlighted in this space last week how much the Gators are missing Harris in particular.

With all of the roster attrition, Shannon has been relying heavily on two freshmen cornerbacks teaming up with senior Duke Dawson, young linebackers across the board, and a banged-up veteran safety while rotating other first-year players through at safety and defensive tackle.

Florida is rebuilding its defense and laying a foundation with high-upside players who will be the next big wave of talent to head off to the NFL in a few years.

In the meanwhile, yeah, it’s not always going to look pretty.

The last two weeks McElwain has made mention of preparation deficiencies on the defensive side, noting that the Gators weren’t ready for Vanderbilt’s passing attack and should have been better equipped to handle LSU’s jet sweeps.

Florida looked flat-footed and caught off guard Saturday as the Tigers’ receivers ran all around the field in the first half. Give Shannon some blame for that, but also give him credit for the adjustments made at halftime and the key stops in the second half.

Throw him some criticism for Florida’s tackling woes, but also give him some credit for the play of the defensive line, which has consistently left its mark in the opposing team’s offensive backfield.

And give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to blitzing; perhaps there’s more he would like to do with blitz packages, but it’s tough to be overly aggressive with such a young secondary.

More than anything, though, give him some time. It’s way too soon to render a verdict on Shannon.
 

Acecustis

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A lot of young players on that side of the ball so I want to say it is too soon. That said I didn't like the hire to begin with and I still don't. His DC days are behind him. We can do better. I don't mind if he just coaches LB's.
 

Gator Fever

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Not sure on Shannon but I know some people who used to play the game seem to think he hasn't adapted with the times and we would get smoked real bad if we played a spread passing heavy offense like some of those in the Big 12 etc. We will get some of that with A&M this week which should tell us more. They have a true freshman QB but he has improved quite a bit from when he was thrown in there against UCLA.

Shannon has to take some blame when your defense lets a team playing 3 true freshmen O linemen run on you for over 200 yards.
 

BMF

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Not sure on Shannon but I know some people who used to play the game seem to think he hasn't adapted with the times and we would get smoked real bad if we played a spread passing heavy offense like some of those in the Big 12 etc. We will get some of that with A&M this week which should tell us more. They have a true freshman QB but he has improved quite a bit from when he was thrown in there against UCLA.

Shannon has to take some blame when your defense lets a team playing 3 true freshmen O linemen run on you for over 200 yards.

I think this is exactly what has happened w/ Butters/Nussmeir. They have failed to adapt and the game has passed them by. You could also say the same - somewhat - w/ Spurrier at South Carolina (and why he left abruptly). It happens and I may agree w/ the Shannon analogy, but I think it may be a little too soon.

I think Shannon is partially responsible for the shape we're in talent wise. We missed on a ton of top talent since he's been here and he brought us Rayshad Jackson and CJ McWilliams (reaches, 2-stars, etc). I'm willing to give him a pass this year due to the youth, injuries, suspensions, etc however.
 

Swamp Donkey

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Call me when the defense is 105th. Until then, the offense is the problem.

17 points isnt dominating but younshould win the game when your defense holds the other team to 17.
 

GatorGriff

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I think the main thing you're seeing is just a lack of talent on defense. This is the result of having nothing but 3 stars at linebacker and safety. I mean this has to be the worst safety play I have seen ever at UF.
 

Gator Fever

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Call me whennthe defense is 105th. Until then, the offense is the problem.

You have to admit # 55 in the SEC is not a good number for us. Offense is still the elephant in the room however. We are going to find out the answer to the question before the season of what Mac's record would be if the defense fell off some.
 

Swamp Donkey

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You have to admit # 55 in the SEC is not a good number for us. .
Its inevitable givem the lack of interest in recruiting inside LBs or DL who arent 3rd and long pass rush only specialists and 3 star safeties.
 

MidwestChomp

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I think we all thought the D would be what it is this year...young, talented, and growing pains will happen. And yet, a big issue with this piece is defensive recruiting and not having depth. Not just depth, but top notch ready to play in the SEC depth. Once we start playing teams that have a pulse of on offense, it may get ugly. If he is still around next year and the D isn't improving we have issues.
 

TheDouglas78

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You have to admit # 55 in the SEC is not a good number for us. Offense is still the elephant in the room however. We are going to find out the answer to the question before the season of what Mac's record would be if the defense fell off some.

Fever, would it be #55 if the offense was in the #50. When the offense doesn't put the opposing offenses in a position where they are one dimensional which a lot Spurrier's offense was great at. Would that be the case. I'm not a big fan of Shannon but he is an upgrade over side hat. The defense has to stay on the field forever because our offense is a 3 and out machine (see thread on only 54 plays on offense). Our lack of depth due to recruiting, which is on Shannon and all of the staff. I would say 55th is pretty decent, not great or good... but decent due to the other issues involved.
 

cover2

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After watching this year, my honest take is that Shannon's schemes and what he is trying to do are theoretically and technically sound...if you have the personnel in place. We don't. DL is probably our most consistently performing group, or should I say they are the most consistent of the inconsistent? Truthfully, most of our first line guys in all of the defensive position groups are not first string caliber using previous standards as a measuring stick. To compound things, the quality of depth is not there. We look more like a high school team that has to accept the players that we get from the middle school feeders and rec programs, develop them over the course of their high school eligibility and create consistency over time. I think we have some good kids that will be better players, but trying to get them up to speed when they are not physically or intellectually (from a perspective of experience against better competition and understanding the game) ready results in the struggles we see weekly. Griff and Midwest speak to how our roster affects success and consistency:
I think the main thing you're seeing is just a lack of talent on defense. This is the result of having nothing but 3 stars at linebacker and safety. I mean this has to be the worst safety play I have seen ever at UF.
I think we all thought the D would be what it is this year...young, talented, and growing pains will happen. And yet, a big issue with this piece is defensive recruiting and not having depth. Not just depth, but top notch ready to play in the SEC depth. Once we start playing teams that have a pulse of on offense, it may get ugly. If he is still around next year and the D isn't improving we have issues.
Personally, I think that Shannon could take more chances, particularly in passing situations, in terms of calculated blitzes that could help the secondary. He might try a little too much zone for the coverage guys based on some of the mistakes they make. I see us in quarters and a guy drifts out of his area and leaves a soft spot to be attacked, which a good QB/OC will see and exploit. Safety play makes Cover 2 scary up the sidelines. I believe part of Shannon's plan is to familiarize the kids with his man and zone concepts so that they'll be better next year, but you've got to get to next year and as many have stated, UF is not a place for OJT. In this instance, I refer to the players specifically.

LB play really stands out as a weakness, particularly considering the first line and depth. A kid like Vosean Joseph, who will light you up, is a non-factor in so many snaps because he is so far behind in terms of basic LB technique and fundamentals. Poor angles just render him null too often, the example being when there is an off-tackle play or stretch/sweep and his instinct is to run to the track that the back is on and not on a normal scrape path that will both contain and intercept. There is more to the position than simply running to the football. He's not there yet, has the tools, but was behind in this area when he arrived. Much of the rest of the this group that we depend on is not real fast...but they're small! OK, bad joke, but it is what it is and this is another compounding problem.

Gaps in recruiting and the number of competition-ready players has hurt us. I think I'd be satisfied with Shannon and what he wants to do if we ever get a roster that is one part stud players and the other part guys who have seasoned in the program and are providing either quality starts or depth, by their second or third years. But that is a big if based on what recent history has shown us. I think you also have to assign some responsibility to the basic coaching that is needed to the staff. At the risk of repeating myself, with this group, you can't build the house roof first. Got to have a better foundation and scheme alone, any scheme, won't fix that.
 

diehardg8r

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My guess is you want have to worry about it cause he will probably leave after this year anyway. I'm betting he either goes to Tennessee or UCF.
 

alcoholica

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I figured we would be at worst top 50, but I also thought the offense would be better. This was also before Harris injury and suspensions. I think he doing welll enough for us to win most of our games. I agree that we should take more chances on defense. Fact is that the talent and depth isn’t there as stated by others.
 

-THE DUDE-

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Fever, would it be #55 if the offense was in the #50. When the offense doesn't put the opposing offenses in a position where they are one dimensional which a lot Spurrier's offense was great at. Would that be the case. I'm not a big fan of Shannon but he is an upgrade over side hat. The defense has to stay on the field forever because our offense is a 3 and out machine (see thread on only 54 plays on offense). Our lack of depth due to recruiting, which is on Shannon and all of the staff. I would say 55th is pretty decent, not great or good... but decent due to the other issues involved.
The defense also has to stay on the field because they almost never get a 3 and out and they suck at 3rd downs period... even the 3rd and long piece is awful because we have such a bland scheme and tackling is bad at best and downright horrific at worst
 

TheDouglas78

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The defense also has to stay on the field because they almost never get a 3 and out and they suck at 3rd downs period... even the 3rd and long piece is awful because we have such a bland scheme and tackling is bad at best and downright horrific at worst

As the games wears on it gets worse... but with our safety play and lack of depth at linebacker what do you expect. We don't have the bodies. and the offense doesn't give the bodies we do have any rest.
 

-THE DUDE-

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As the games wears on it gets worse... but with our safety play and lack of depth at linebacker what do you expect. We don't have the bodies. and the offense doesn't give the bodies we do have any rest.
I guess i expect them to sign high quality depth for those positions... not 2-3* players that are also too small. They finally addressed size at DT last year but those are frosh... that needs to be every year.

But also that fresh d is not getting 3 and outs in the first half either... not even against that ****ty product lsu put out there
 

TheDouglas78

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I guess i expect them to sign high quality depth for those positions... not 2-3* players that are also too small. They finally addressed size at DT last year but those are frosh... that needs to be every year.

But also that fresh d is not getting 3 and outs in the first half either... not even against that ****ty product lsu put out there

Which is why I said the lack of talent is on Shannon and all the coaching staff. Recruiting has been horrible on that side of the ball for 3 years, and we are paying for it now.
 

AlexDaGator

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I asked this question in the box.

Who are our 3 best defensive players this year?

Now compare that to any other Gator defense you can think of.

There's your answer.

There no Dante Fowler or Sharrif Floyd, no Dominique Easley or Jonathan Bullard, no VHIII or Matt Elam, no Caleb Brantley or Jarrad Davis.

Polite and Zuniga aren't as good as Alex McCallister was, and McCallister was a primarily a situational player for us.

There is some young talent in the secondary who could turn out to be be good, but not right now.

We all knew the defense was going to take a step back this year. Their deficiencies were camoflauged by the pick sixes in the first couple of games but that was just fool's gold. How many turnovers have we forced in the last 3 games? 0?

We KNEW this was going to happen.

That's why the offense HAD to be better this season.


Alex.
 

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