College basketball is about to be flipped on its head

They won't kill college basketball. Look at how they treated UNC with the cheating scandal. That was death penalty stuff and they got a slap on the wrist.

Remember, college football is NOT the NCAA's cash cow. It's basketball and the tourney that lines their pockets. They won't see that destroyed.

Some times a scandal is too big. Remember the banks were too big to fail? Then Hillary gave us too big to jail? That's what this is looking like to me.

The coaches aren't stupid. They say "get the player, do what you have to do to get the player, I don't want to know, but get the player".

Imagine college basketball with Calipari, Krzyzewski, Self, Izzo, and Williams (and their teams) ineligible. That's too big. Now if it is just one or two of them, then nobody cares if Bruce Pearl or FSU go down with them. If it is 3 or 4 of them, they will blame it on a few assistants and the shoe companies and throw them under the bus to save the sport.



Alex.

gatorgrad'02 said:

If nothing else, I hope this situation serves as a reset for college basketball and the NBA. Growing up in the 80s and early 90s, I absolutely loved college basketball, but the one and done era has absolutely ruined it for me as a fan of the sport aside from my rooting interest in the Gators.

If the NBA is unwilling to act, I believe the NCAA needs to grow a pair and institute scholarship restrictions on schools who have players leave early. This would at least bring an end to the hoarding of top end talent to a select few programs. The moment you sign a kid to a scholarship, that scholarship spot is locked up for a minimum of a 2-3 years period. Gives the kids the freedom to leave if they choose, while penalizing programs who continually recruit talent that are really just one or two year hired mercenaries.

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The solution is obvious and easy to implement assuming that both the NBA and the NCAA have any interest in doing the right thing, which neither of them do.

You simply implement the college baseball process.
As a senior in high school you have the option of signing and LOI or signing a professional basketball contract.
If you sign the basketball contract, you are no longer an amateur and we hope it all works out for you.
If you sign the LOI, you are required to stay until the end of your junior year at which point you can either apply for the draft or return to school for your senior year.

The end result is that a handful of the "Lebron James" types will go straight to the league and the majority of the top players will stick around long enough that a fan might actually recognize players on opposing teams. He!!, we could even get back to the days when you could develop a healthy dislike for opposing players. "I hate Christian Laettner" would never have happened in today's college basketball.

Double Gator Dad said:

The solution is obvious and easy to implement assuming that both the NBA and the NCAA have any interest in doing the right thing, which neither of them do.

You simply implement the college baseball process.
As a senior in high school you have the option of signing and LOI or signing a professional basketball contract.
If you sign the basketball contract, you are no longer an amateur and we hope it all works out for you.
If you sign the LOI, you are required to stay until the end of your junior year at which point you can either apply for the draft or return to school for your senior year.

The end result is that a handful of the "Lebron James" types will go straight to the league and the majority of the top players will stick around long enough that a fan might actually recognize players on opposing teams. He!!, we could even get back to the days when you could develop a healthy dislike for opposing players. "I hate Christian Laettner" would never have happened in today's college basketball.

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Exactly.

Double Gator Dad said:

The solution is obvious and easy to implement assuming that both the NBA and the NCAA have any interest in doing the right thing, which neither of them.

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It’s tough enough to trust even one of them to act appropriately, let alone both.

Jay26 said:

Kentucky, FSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Georgia, Miami, Duke, and UNC.


This is my wish list for the teams to get hammered. Would be hilarious.

Trying to think who we would have paid the past few years? We don’t land elite talent...

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Uga and Tennessee? Lets be realistic here

Jay26 said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-co...hes-top-programs-lottery-picks-224417174.html

This could get ugly. Hope that somehow, some way, UF is not involved.

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HUGE article suggesting MASSIVE and WIDESPREAD (feel like I"m channeling jboss) corruption...and yet, no real hint of who or when or anything. Just a lot of "lookie-lookie!!!" and not showing us anything.

Do I hope it's true? Yes. I hope the NCAA gets knee-capped on it's cash cow basketball and P5 separate for major sports. NCAA is a dinosaur that doesn't know it went extinct awhile back.

This gonna set our 2019 class up nicely

If history is any indication, the only real chance of significant punishment being dished out is if UF is guilty. Any other big name school gets a free pass, except maybe psu. ncaa is a slimy joke.

NCAA had their chance to nail UNC and didn't, look at UNC jersey sale revenue, at or near the top every year. They won't kill a cash cow.

Apparently the FBI has a spreadsheet of who got paid: https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-sp...t-scheme-hoops-corruption-case-001618078.html

So when will we actually find out some real information on this and name names??

AlexDaGator said:

.. UNC with the cheating scandal. That was death penalty stuff and they got a slap on the wrist.

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I did not bother with the rest of your stuff, because by typing the above you showed you do not understand:

1. The NCAA
2. Colleges and Universities
3. What happened at UNC

InstiGATOR1 said:

I did not bother with the rest of your stuff, because by typing the above you showed you do not understand:

1. The NCAA
2. Colleges and Universities
3. What happened at UNC

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Maybe I don't understand what happened at UNC either so I will share my take and then you can correct me

My understanding is that UNC had executed a thinly veiled academic program under the umbrella of "African American Studies" that was nothing more than a grade factory for football and basketball players.
Given their expertise at these things, they made sure to include a few regular students to keep it from being too obvious.
This program went on for nearly twenty years and included requirements such as:
- No classes to attend
- No actual work to be completed
- One essay served as you final exam and the program coordinator would write this for you.

All was good for decades until word leaked out from a couple of disgruntled former players that felt like they were exploited (of course they had no problem with the arrangement while it was keeping them on the court) and complained that they were cheated out of an education.

Once the NCAA was FORCED to investigate, they took every precaution possible to drag the investigation out as long as they could, while sharing everything with the UNC administration, to enable them to clean what could be cleaned and change what could be changed.

After an investigation that amazingly took several years, the NCAA presented UNC with their findings. This was followed by more then two years of wrangling and lawyering up at every step, and the NCAA reducing the charges a couple of times.

After nearly five years, UNC was able to convince the NCAA that the fact that a disproportionate amount of athletes attended these classes was only a coincidence and that UNC had no intent to break any rules.

This outcome was textbook sacred cow treatment plain and simple.
Anyone that says different is most likely a UNC grad.

Let's look at your misunderstandings:

Double Gator Dad said:

My understanding is that UNC had executed a thinly veiled academic program under the umbrella of "African American Studies" that was nothing more than a grade factory for football and basketball players. Given their expertise at these things, they made sure to include a few regular students to keep it from being too obvious.

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According to this site:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article183717756.html

Raleigh News and Observer said:

Athletes made up nearly half of the enrollments,

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So the Raleigh News and Observer, not a UNC apologist on this, found someone who investigated the matter and quoted them as finding that athletes made up less than half the enrollment. Now the article also says athletes were about 4% of the student body, but bad students seek out easy classes everywhere in the country.

Double Gator Dad said:

This program went on for nearly twenty years and included requirements such as:
- No classes to attend
- No actual work to be completed
- One essay served as you final exam and the program coordinator would write this for you.

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Actually I learned something new in checking on this. It turns out that these classes were directed or independent study courses. Such courses all over the country at Harvard, at Stanford, at Michigan, at UCLA, at UF, at UCF, at Georgia Southern, at FAMU etc NEVER MEET. Often times they require no further work than the final paper turned in. The paper though is typically more than the short paragraph that I saw that was graded an A- at UNC.

I saw one claim that such papers were written by tutors. I don't know why they would be since less than 150 words could get you an A-. This claim was disputed by others.

Double Gator Dad said:

All was good for decades until word leaked out from a couple of disgruntled former players that felt like they were exploited (of course they had no problem with the arrangement while it was keeping them on the court) and complained that they were cheated out of an education.

Once the NCAA was FORCED to investigate, they took every precaution possible to drag the investigation out as long as they could, while sharing everything with the UNC administration, to enable them to clean what could be cleaned and change what could be changed.

After an investigation that amazingly took several years, the NCAA presented UNC with their findings. This was followed by more then two years of wrangling and lawyering up at every step, and the NCAA reducing the charges a couple of times.

After nearly five years, UNC was able to convince the NCAA that the fact that a disproportionate amount of athletes attended these classes was only a coincidence and that UNC had no intent to break any rules.

This outcome was textbook sacred cow treatment plain and simple. Anyone that says different is most likely a UNC grad.

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I am neither a UNC grad or fan. The issue you might be missing is that Harvard is not having UNC evaluating its classes. For that matter UNC is not having UCF evaluating its courses. And UCF is not having Georgia Southern evaluate its courses etc. Additionally there is NO WAY IN HELL Harvard is having the JOCKS at UCF evaluate its courses.

And that is what the NCAA is an organization of the jocks at various schools. They are NEVER going to be in charge of evaluating classes offered by any of the member universities. Universities tolerate athletic departments because they generate students and donations to the university.

So as that article I linked above suggests, this is a SACS issue for UNC. SACS is who evaluates UNCs academics. The NCAA is irrelevant here. The NCAA does not get to make decisions that belong to the faculty at UNC and NEVER will.

What happened at UNC is a lazy professor started giving away grades to anyone who signed up for his courses. Not surprisingly he attracted lots of athletes among other students looking for an easy grade. Heck there were UF profs of various time periods known to be easy graders. You think the NCAA (again ie jocks) should be looking into whether a UF physics course is too easy or maybe they should also judge whether or not UF courses are too hard?

I am not going to argue with you since I don't care enough about UNC.

I am sure that everything you said is generally accurate. What I will say is that I have it on VERY good authority that both football players and basketball players were told to take these classes and they were guaranteed to get in before the classes filled.

UNC athletic personnel were deliberately sending players to these classes and telling them that they were guaranteed the grades they needed to stay eligible. I am quoting someone with direct knowledge.

This is academic fraud.

Maybe everyone does it but everyone doesn't brag about their unquestioned integrity "The Carolina Way".

Double Gator Dad said:

they were guaranteed to get in before the classes filled.

UNC athletic personnel were deliberately sending players to these classes and telling them that they were guaranteed the grades they needed to stay eligible. I am quoting someone with direct knowledge.

This is academic fraud.

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Well:

1. You do know that directed/independent study classes can not fill up? They do not have assigned classrooms. They do not have a number of seats. If every student in the university wants to enroll in a directed study with a professor and he is willing to take on that many students, then they can all register.

2. Also you do know that everywhere in the country that certain students, student athletes, student government officers etc get preferential registration times and dates so there is no chance athletes can not take any directed study course offered any place in the country.

3. The essence of good advising is getting students into courses of study and individual classes that fit there interests and abilities. If I were a UNC or any place else academic adviser, I would certainly encourage students particularly marginal students to take classes they are capable of passing. That would hold double if I were an athletic adviser advising lots of athletes who were marginal students.

4. You are, as were the UAL fans around here a decade or so back when UTn's athletes were disproportionately found to be majoring in urban studies, confusing good advising with fraud. A good adviser most certainly should not encourage a marginal student to major in mathematics and take linear algebra and the University does not pretend that a sociology degree is a math degree.

5. It is not the job of an adviser, particularly one working for the athletic department to decide if a course is rigorous enough for college credit. In fact if an athletic adviser tried to claim that a course or professor were too easy, they would likely be run out of the university by the academic side. Again jocks are tolerated at universities. Their opinions on classes are very very very unwelcome outside the athletic department AS THEY SHOULD BE.

Report: FBI probe into NCAA corruption identifies possible violations by basketball powers

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...n-reveals-basketball-powers-broken-ncaa-rules