NBA Finals

Marine1

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MJ>bron forever. Nothing Bron can do to even it up. Ever. This watered down NBA is a joke.

Stevens is one of the best coaches in all of sports. Dude is missing how many studs to injury?

Tonight he was missing one more stud than the Cavs were missing but made up for it by having several immensely more talented players than the Cavs. No excuses....they blew it at home in a game 7. No matter...they will be back. The only way they dont go to the finals next year is if lebron goes to the 76ers.

NBA is great. Love this game!
 

78

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I’m stil an MJ guy for GOAT but with the gap closing. But...every year he had the best team in the league he won the championship. Every year he didn’t....he didn’t make it to the finals. Lebron lost at least one finals where he had the better team (Mavs). But he has taken teams to the finals that had no business being there....including this one.

I usually stay out out of the whole GOAT thing. I just enjoy watching them play.
Lots of different angles can be pursued in comparing the two. The NBA allowed opposing defenses, esp the Pistons, to mug Michael earlier in his career. The Knicks under Riley weren't much kinder.

The rules for guarding a player are so much more restrictive now. Couple that with the synthetically arranged Heat.

Nope.

Pound for pound, I'll never see LeBron on equal footing, which is no slight. He's up against Superman.
 

Marine1

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Lots of different angles can be pursued in comparing the two. The NBA allowed opposing defenses, esp the Pistons, to mug Michael earlier in his career. The Knicks under Riley weren't much kinder.

The rules for guarding a player are so much more restrictive now. Couple that with the synthetically arranged Heat.

Nope.

Pound for pound, I'll never see LeBron on equal footing, which is no slight. He's up against Superman.

I tend to agree. Lebron has closed that gap but MJ remains on top. He was simply unreal and his will to win was incomparable.
 

GatorJ

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Except Michael won a title and series MVP in every Finals trip. No one has come close to equaling what he did in the Finals.

For sure. But MJ also didn’t go to the Finals 9 times either. And those Bulls team players (except with Miami) have been vastly superior to any teams that Lebron has had.

I remember when Jordan used to be attacked all the time for being a ball hog.

LeBron is having a hard time with image. Mainly because of the way he left Cleveland the first time. And rightfully so - it was bush league. But he did go back and brought a championship to that city.

Even if he goes down as second of all time next to Jordan - who cares? We’re witnessing something we won’t see for at least another 20+ years. This idea that somebody is somehow inferior because they aren’t Jordan is crazy.

Nobody compares Kareem, Bird, Magic, or Wilt to Jordan. They’re considered greats in their own rights. Lebron’s game is not even comparable to Jordan. Completely different styles.
 

GatorJ

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They have an outside chance if they play the Rockets. No chance against the Warriors. They just cant match up.

I agree. They don’t have enough firepower to keep up with the Warriors. I’d be surprised if they beat the Rockets as well.
 

t-gator

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They have an outside chance if they play the Rockets. No chance against the Warriors. They just cant match up.
This is so true. I don't see cleveland winning a game against gs this year. But i could see them beating Houston.
 

78

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The last time Lebron wasn’t in the finals....78% of the entire NBA wasn’t in the league yet.
You hit on what I think will be his greatest legacy, the lengthy period of time during which he was the gold standard, the best and most dominant player on the planet.

His physical dominance and commitment to get better have so much to do with it.
 

t-gator

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Lots of different angles can be pursued in comparing the two. The NBA allowed opposing defenses, esp the Pistons, to mug Michael earlier in his career. The Knicks under Riley weren't much kinder.

The rules for guarding a player are so much more restrictive now. Couple that with the synthetically arranged Heat.

Nope.

Pound for pound, I'll never see LeBron on equal footing, which is no slight. He's up against Superman.
I think its a joke when you guys talk about how players are more restricted on defense now. Lebron has a body on him the entire game. He's literally backing guys down from 30 feet out.
 

78

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I think its a joke when you guys talk about how players are more restricted on defense now. Lebron has a body on him the entire game. He's literally backing guys down from 30 feet out.
It affected Jordan more because he didn't enjoy the strength advantage James does.

Michael was.an artist, LeBron is a bulldozer with a fifth gear.
 

MTGator

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Jordan played with all stars and HOF’ers and against guys who couldn’t make an NBA roster today. Lebron puts a bunch of homeless and/or oft injured guys on his back and goes to the finals every year and gets to play against the greatest “team” (Warriors) in the modern era. Jordan was great and ahead of his time but Lebron is a transcendent athlete who has the physical tools and talent unlike anyone else who has ever played the game.
 
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T REX

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Jordan played with all stars and HOF’ers and against guys who couldn’t make an NBA roster today. Lebron puts a bunch of homeless and/or oft injured guys on his back and goes to the finals every year and gets to play against the greatest “team” (Warriors) in the modern era. Jordan was great and ahead of his time but Lebron is a transcendent athlete who has the physical tools and talent unlike anyone else who has ever played the game.

Fail.

Mike was transcendent.

How old are you?

EDIT: It says you are 48? Gotta ask...did you watch MJ play regularly? If so, not sure how you can make your statements with a straight face. It's mostly kids on the Bron GOAT bandwagon. 48? Wow. I'm shocked.
 

MTGator

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Fail.

Mike was transcendent.

How old are you?

EDIT: It says you are 48? Gotta ask...did you watch MJ play regularly? If so, not sure how you can make your statements with a straight face. It's mostly kids on the Bron GOAT bandwagon. 48? Wow. I'm shocked.

I would bet I watched Jordan more than you. Had his poster on my wall and saw him play a few times live. Absolutely amazing player and athlete. It’s a team game and it is unquestionable that Jordan had far superior teams around him and when you look at the teams the Cavs have rolled out in the finals it’s amazing how one player can impact the game so much. The year after Jordan left the first time the Bulls went to the playoffs, lost in the second round to the Magic I believe. The season Lebron left the Cavs the first time the Cavs had the #1 pick and didn’t make the playoffs (finals) until he returned, even after having Kyrie a few years.
I’m not taking anything away from Jordan, what he did and who he was as a player was remarkable but I’d take Lebron.
 
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78

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Jordan played with all stars and HOF’ers and against guys who couldn’t make an NBA roster today. Lebron puts a bunch of homeless and/or oft injured guys on his back and goes to the finals every year and gets to play against the greatest “team” (Warriors) in the modern era. Jordan was great and ahead of his time but Lebron is a transcendent athlete who has the physical tools and talent unlike anyone else who has ever played the game.
A bunch of homeless? Let's see:

* Dwyane Wade, 12-time All-Star
* Chris Bosh, 11-time All-Star
* Kyrie Irving, five-time All-Star
* Kevin Love, five-time All-Star

At least one of those guys will be in the HOF before too long.

You said you watched a lot of Jordan. Then you undoubtedly remember the term "Michael Jordan and the Jordanaires." For the first several seasons of his career, he was surrounded by marginal talent. Many used less flattering terms. Stiffs is what many called the guys Jordan played alongside.

The rub on the Bulls was, you stop Jordan, you stop the Bulls. By 1997-98, the rub on the Bulls was still, you stop Jordan, you stop the Bulls.

By the year the Bulls finally broke through and beat the Pistons en route to their first title, Jordan was surrounded by zero All-Stars and only one player who'd ever been selected, Scottie Pippen, who had exactly ONE under his belt. Pippen's greatest notoriety at the time was a G7 migraine against the Pistons.

Finals appearances, titles, Series MVP:

James -- eight, three titles, three MVPs
Jordan -- six, six titles, six MVPs

No one dominated the Finals like Jordan.

Also, are you going to argue that if Jordan hadn't retired prematurely in 1993 and 1999 that the Bulls wouldn't have added two more titles to the shelf? I certainly wouldn't have betted against it.

Career stats:

James 27.2 pts, 50.4% FG, 7.4 reb, 7.2 assists
Jordan 30.1 pts, 49.7% FG, 6.2 reb, 5.3 assists. He shot nearly as well as James and he was operating from the 2 position.

* Jordan was 40 years when adding to those final stats. James turned 33 in December.

Defense:

James -- five-time All-Defensive first team
Jordan -- 1988 Defensive Player of the Year, nine-time All-Defensive first team, tied for most ever

The League:

The league that Jordan played in included Magic, Bird, Erving, Abdul-Jabbar, Isiah, Malone, Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Barkley, Drexler, Stockton.

James' league? Kobe, Duncan, Nowitzki, Durant, Curry, Westbrook. A good league but definitely not on par with the NBA of 20-30 years ago.

Lebron is a great player, a guy capable of strapping a team on his back, although he wasn't as willing earlier in his career. And, yes, he is transcendent.

Jordan is the greatest player and competitor of all time, a 6-6, 220-pound shooting guard capable of taking over a game at will and a cold-blooded assassin. There has never been a more feared player with the ball in his hands and the game on the line.

Jordan wins.
 
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Circle City Gator

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Lebrun is bigger and stronger than Jordan. He's a better passer. He's not as good a defender on the floor, but a much better defender around the rim. He's a better rebounder and a better 3-point shooter. Jordan was a better slasher and dunker.

And please don't waive Jordan's 6 championships around, unless you start with, "Bill Russell is the GOAT." Because 11 > 6.
 

78

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Lebrun is bigger and stronger than Jordan. He's a better passer. He's not as good a defender on the floor, but a much better defender around the rim. He's a better rebounder and a better 3-point shooter. Jordan was a better slasher and dunker.

And please don't waive Jordan's 6 championships around, unless you start with, "Bill Russell is the GOAT." Because 11 > 6.
That's a non-starter. Russell rarely makes the Top 5 list let alone GOAT. He was a defender, rebounder and passer.
 

SeabeeGator

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A bunch of homeless? Let's see:

* Dwyane Wade, 12-time All-Star
* Chris Bosh, 11-time All-Star
* Kyrie Irving, five-time All-Star
* Kevin Love, five-time All-Star

At least one of those guys will be in the HOF before too long.

You said you watched a lot of Jordan. Then you undoubtedly remember the term "Michael Jordan and the Jordanaires." For the first several seasons of his career, he was surrounded by marginal talent. Many used less flattering terms. Stiffs is what many called the guys Jordan played alongside.

The rub on the Bulls was, you stop Jordan, you stop the Bulls. By 1997-98, the rub on the Bulls was still, you stop Jordan, you stop the Bulls.

By the year the Bulls finally broke through and beat the Pistons en route to their first title, Jordan was surrounded by zero All-Stars and only one player who'd ever been selected, Scottie Pippen, who had exactly ONE under his belt. Pippen's greatest notoriety at the time was a G7 migraine against the Pistons.

Finals appearances, titles, Series MVP:

James -- eight, three titles, three MVPs
Jordan -- six, six titles, six MVPs

No one dominated the Finals like Jordan.

Also, are you going to argue that if Jordan hadn't retired prematurely in 1993 and 1999 that the Bulls wouldn't have added two more titles to the shelf? I certainly wouldn't have betted against it.

Career stats:

James 27.2 pts, 50.4% FG, 7.4 reb, 7.2 assists
Jordan 30.1 pts, 49.7% FG, 6.2 reb, 5.3 assists. He shot nearly as well as James and he was operating from the 2 position.

* Jordan was 40 years when adding to those final stats. James turned 33 in December.

Defense:

James -- five-time All-Defensive first team
Jordan -- 1988 Defensive Player of the Year, nine-time All-Defensive first team, tied for most ever

The League:

The league that Jordan played in included Magic, Bird, Erving, Abdul-Jabbar, Isiah, Malone, Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Barkley, Drexler, Stockton.

James' league? Kobe, Duncan, Nowitzki, Durant, Curry, Westbrook. A good league but definitely not on par with the NBA of 20-30 years ago.

Lebron is a great player, a guy capable of strapping a team on his back, although he wasn't as willing earlier in his career. And, yes, he is transcendent.

Jordan is the greatest player and competitor of all time, a 6-6, 220-pound shooting guard capable of taking over a game at will and a cold-blooded assassin. There has never been a more feared player with the ball in his hands and the game on the line.

Jordan wins.
Not to mention how weak the East is now compared to when Jordan played. Reggie Miller’s Indiana teams, Ewing’s Knicks, Shaq’s and Penny’s Magic, Isiah’s Pistons... Lebron hasn’t faced any teams like that in the East, which leads to his impressive Finals streak. This year’s Boston team might’ve been noteworthy but they were ravaged by injuries. All the good teams are in the West - and you’ll see GS/Houston wipe the floor with this Cavs team yet again.

Lebron is great but it’s too easy to poke holes in his resume.
 

T REX

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Lebrun is bigger and stronger than Jordan. He's a better passer. He's not as good a defender on the floor, but a much better defender around the rim. He's a better rebounder and a better 3-point shooter. Jordan was a better slasher and dunker.

And please don't waive Jordan's 6 championships around, unless you start with, "Bill Russell is the GOAT." Because 11 > 6.

Robert Horry 7 titles

Horry>MJ
 

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