Discussion: “The Brand Is Damaged”

Not getting in the arms race and terrible hires did this...it’s no secret what happened and that horse has been beaten to death here and every gators board

Call it what you want. Damaged, dinged or whatever. However, I have not seen a preseason poll list us higher than 30th. SB nation has us behind FAU. So at the very least we are dissrespected.

Man I hope the games prove all wring.
Go Gators!

Pablos Tunnel said:

Call it what you want. Damaged, dinged or whatever. However, I have not seen a preseason poll list us higher than 30th. SB nation has us behind FAU. So at the very least we are dissrespected.

Man I hope the games prove all wring.
Go Gators!

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We aren’t disrespected. We’ve earned it.

GatorJ said:

You’re retarded

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Thanks! The point is that any Gator knows that we have many teams that play their sports at a very high level. They win SEC championships, and sometimes even national ones.

And we generally do it while educating our athletes and upholding the high ethical standards that Gators expect.

You have Gator in your handle, is it on an important document, perhaps on your wall?

leogator said:

I really don't care if the brand is damaged. All I want is for us to look respectable even while losing. I want us to be in the best physical shape we can be, know the plays, give 100% effort, be technically correct. I want roster balance, I want competent QBs. I never, ever want only 6 OLs in the roster or just one QB like in the past. 5*s, we have had 5* recently, what have they done for us? When you look like crap against UMass, when you let UMass push you around, when their QB looks better than yours, you have reached bottom.

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Exactly and if we accomplish these things, wins will result, and what some call the "brand" will improve.

'78 said:

Yes and no. Foley and his minions became increasingly convinced over time in the righteousness of supporting all sports equally, men's and women's, as well as the notion that the all-sports trophy was the ultimate goal. The fallout was having football fall behind and not having a quick fix for getting it back on track.

And there we rest, the finest athletic department in the land top to bottom sans the program that matters most, football.

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I disagree, there is nothing that says supporting all of our sports would result in football declining. Sure he and I bet many sponsors thought that not running up debt was in our long term interests. I bet Foley thought those hires would work out and were the best we could obtain.

I remember folks wanting various coaches who would not come, they are not slaves and money is not everything.

Now our facilities have not kept up and Foley is responsible for that, it is being addressed.

Nobody should think a mistake or difference of opinion means that Foley did not want success for all our sports, especially the most important one which is of course football.

ChiefGator said:

I disagree, there is nothing that says supporting all of our sports would result in football declining. Sure he and I bet many sponsors thought that not running up debt was in our long term interests. I bet Foley thought those hires would work out and were the best we could obtain.

I remember folks wanting various coaches who would not come, they are not slaves and money is not everything.

Now our facilities have not kept up and Foley is responsible for that, it is being addressed.

Nobody should think a mistake or difference of opinion means that Foley did not want success for all our sports, especially the most important one which is of course football.

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He even chintzed on our IPF. Northwestern is spending $30M on theirs. We spent $15M. Northwestern spending more money on their facilities?

The man was a bean counter. He even contributed money back to the university for god's sake. Meanwhile, our dorms look like shyt.

leogator said:

He even chintzed on our IPF. Northwestern is spending $30M on theirs. We spent $15M. Northwestern spending more money on their facilities?

The man was a bean counter. He even contributed money back to the university for god's sake. Meanwhile, our dorms look like shyt.

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Sure but I bet construction there costs way more than construction here. And money is not everything, but spending it effectively is.

I have no problem being critical of the administration and Foley, just not their motives being to destroy football while supporting every other sport.

And giving back is a good thing, not a bad one.

ChiefGator said:

I disagree, there is nothing that says supporting all of our sports would result in football declining. Sure he and I bet many sponsors thought that not running up debt was in our long term interests. I bet Foley thought those hires would work out and were the best we could obtain.

I remember folks wanting various coaches who would not come, they are not slaves and money is not everything.

Now our facilities have not kept up and Foley is responsible for that, it is being addressed.

Nobody should think a mistake or difference of opinion means that Foley did not want success for all our sports, especially the most important one which is of course football.

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So if I run a sales organization and you're my top producer, should I pass on the big leads to you or the guy making 50k a year?

ChiefGator said:

Sure but I bet construction there costs way more than construction here. And money is not everything, but spending it effectively is.

I have no problem being critical of the administration and Foley, just not their motives being to destroy football while supporting every other sport.

And giving back is a good thing, not a bad one.

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Giving back is great but not when you are falling behind in facilities. Football is the engine that drives that train. It's not one of the sports, it is the sport, the moneymaker.

The bottom line.

MJMGator said:

We aren’t disrespected. We’ve earned it.

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30th after multiple 4-8 seasons is actually somewhat overrated.

'78 said:

So if I run a sales organization and you're my top producer, should I pass on the big leads to you or the guy making 50k a year?

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Probably to the 50K a year guy at least one to see if he can close it. Not being greedy I think it is a team effort, I would also help that other guy to become better if I was the top guy.

leogator said:

Giving back is great but not when you are falling behind in facilities. Football is the engine that drives that train. It's not one of the sports, it is the sport, the moneymaker.

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I agree football makes the revenue, but giving back some is always good and we have been doing it for a long time.

Now when you are falling behind and it makes a difference (I think it does) you raise more money by convincing folks that it is important. SOS and Foley are supposed to be doing that.

And as a graduate, every Gator in every sport is equally important as part of my Gator family, perhaps you don't agree that is fine.

Perhaps you are not a graduate as well, I don't know or care, there is room for all.

That's admirable Chief, but unfortunately every sport isn't equal. They just aren't. From what I've seen, Football generates about $50M a year after expenses. Basketball is slightly in the black and all other sports are $20M in the red. Based on that, why would anyone siphon so much money from football to support the sports in the red to the point that you have to raise funds to get football what it needs to continue to generate the revenue that supports the entire enterprise?

This makes no fiscal sense to me. Perhaps its thinking like this that has resulted in a drop of Booster contributions by $9M year over year. When you don't give the customer what they want, you lose your customer and then you don't have any money for your pet projects.

ChiefGator said:

I agree football makes the revenue, but giving back some is always good and we have been doing it for a long time.

Now when you are falling behind and it makes a difference (I think it does) you raise more money by convincing folks that it is important. SOS and Foley are supposed to be doing that.

And as a graduate, every Gator in every sport is equally important as part of my Gator family, perhaps you don't agree that is fine.

Perhaps you are not a graduate as well, I don't know or care, there is room for all.

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YLGator said:

That's admirable Chief, but unfortunately every sport isn't equal. They just aren't. From what I've seen, Football generates about $50M a year after expenses. Basketball is slightly in the black and all other sports are $20M in the red. Based on that, why would anyone siphon so much money from football to support the sports in the red to the point that you have to raise funds to get football what it needs to continue to generate the revenue that supports the entire enterprise?

This makes no fiscal sense to me. Perhaps its thinking like this that has resulted in a drop of Booster contributions by $9M year over year. When you don't give the customer what they want, you lose your customer and then you don't have any money for your pet projects.

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Exactly. It's that kind of ignorant mindset that got GE on trouble. They committed to be all things to all people instead of focusing on what made them great. Their stock has plummeted 76% since 07/01/00.

And while I realize we have many great athletes and teams in the fringe sports, they don't pay the freight. Football does.

Is the brand damaged? Certainly after a long run of mediocrity. Top Coaches don’t seem to want to coach here and top players don’t seem to want to play here. The kids are too young to remember our glory years. HS seniors were born the year Spurrier left the Gators. They were in grade school when Urban left. It’s easy to see why kids aren’t flocking here in absence of success.

Coaches though are a bit more complicated. A top tier coach not only is not intimidated by recent mediocrity....they almost prefer it. They’re self confident enough to believe THEY are the answer and THEY will turn it around. They love to be the conquering hero.

No...I believe the top tier coaches are not excited to come here based on their belief that winning is not enough. Short of a NC or at least an SEC title every year the season is a failure. It may not be true but I think THEY believe it. There just does not appear to be any top tier coaches out there that get excited about pursuing our job.

Since Spurrier left we have hired 5 coaches. One was the top guy available. He was young and ready to move up to a top tier program. Timing was right and his former President was now ours. Everything literally lined up and we got the right guy.

2 others were Gator retreads and 1 was a former hometown boy and then there was Mac. All unproven on the big stage. But there was no top tiers reaching out to us pursuing the job aggressively. 4 times we settled. This past effort we had identified 2 top tier candidates and neither appeared to be much interested. Money didn’t appear to be the issue.

I’m all in on Mullen because I have to be. Nobody else took the job. DM is here, wants to be here and has done a lot before even coaching his first game. I’ll take him warts and all until he proves he can’t do the job and we go looking for a new batch of guys who really don’t want the job and we settle again.

I’m going crazy right now. I can’t wait for the season to kick off. Game day is special for us. We make it a weekend. We bring the whole crew. We get there a day early and stay a day late to take it all in. We throw down cold one’s and tell the same stories we told last year...and the year before...and so on. The kids like to laugh at me how when they were young I would make them ride with me all over Gainesville and look at every place I ever lived. Every. Single. Trip.

UF is special. Gainesville is special. I can’t wait to get back there. It’s going to be a fun year....that I can guarantee.

Besides Zook, who is the other Gator retread?

'78 said:

Besides Zook, who is the other Gator retread?

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Mullen