Is Mullen really 2-15 all time vs ranked teams?

T REX · Jul 20, 2018

oxrageous said:
To a certain extent I agree with Breeze. Ripping Mullen at this point is ridiculous. Let's let him coach at least two games before we call for his public execution.

I think it's been pretty tame for the most part. Recruiting and his record vs ranked teams are the only things I've seen brought up.

Are you happy with either of those things? No one is calling for him to be fired. Not one that I have read. It's the off-season. Not much else to talk about.

GatorJB · Jul 20, 2018

Mr.Breeze said:
Ok fair enough - do you get blasted before you’ve even had a chance to play a game, let alone bring home a trophy?

Right now we are outside the top 30 in recruiting, and because of the early signing period, it is next to impossible for him to have a top 10 class this year. This means that the earliest we could compete to win the conference is 2021, but the only way that will happen is if his third class is ranked around #5.

You get the most production from your recruiting class their junior year. See Tebow's amazing class for example. That doesn't mean they won't contribute before or after, but the junior year is when you get the most out of them. We needed this class to be top 10 in order to be better than 9-3 within the next 3 years, but that's not going to happen. At this point the best we can hope for this year is top 15 if we're lucky. Mullen's history shows he doesn't win many games without comparable or better talent. So with the recruiting classes he's bringing in, we're looking at 8-4 or 9-3 seasons the next several years.

That's why there are so many unhappy people here. If we were currently top 15 in recruiting, there wouldn't be nearly as much frustration. It also doesn't help that he brought in all of his buddies as assistant coaches, which is exactly what Mac did. He may just be an upgraded version of Mac: likes to run the ball, predictable play calling, way to loyal to do what's necessary, and doesn't spend enough time recruiting in state. I'll admit it is nice to see our players working out now, and they shouldn't be completely clueless on the field.

oxrageous · Jul 20, 2018

The only thing I'm unhappy about is the progress of the 2019 class. I'm pretty happy about his performance everywhere else. We're going to have a much stronger, much better prepared group of players. I'm excited to see them play.

Going into the season last year I was not excited to see them play.

Mr.Breeze · Jul 20, 2018

oxrageous said:
The only thing I'm unhappy about is the progress of the 2019 class. I'm pretty happy about his performance everywhere else. We're going to have a much stronger, much better prepared group of players. I'm excited to see them play.

He will need to put a convincing product on the field this season in order to establish his credibility with top recruits and draw them away from current championship contenders. We win a signature game or two and get some national attention again and the recruiting should respond - I hope

Gator Fever · Jul 20, 2018

oxrageous said:
The only thing I'm unhappy about is the progress of the 2019 class. I'm pretty happy about his performance everywhere else. We're going to have a much stronger, much better prepared group of players. I'm excited to see them play.

Going into the season last year I was not excited to see them play.

Improved recruiting is the only thing that would make me happy about things right now. I always figured to write off 2018 as an 8-4 or 7-5 type season due to the QB position. The S&C is good to see but it doesnt take away my current depression about the future with how recruiting looks to be shaping up.

NVGator · Jul 20, 2018

We need to fire Cousin Eddie’s sorry ass and get someone who can recruit AND out coach the competition’s coach.

78 · Jul 20, 2018

Mullen has had the shortest honeymoon of any UF head coach in recorded history -- in the time it took to read the AP story breaking the news till a nanosecond later when everyone's jaw dropped.

If he pulls off the unimaginable, imagine what kind of cult figure he'll become.

Swamp Donkey · Jul 20, 2018

'78 said:
Mullen has had the shortest honeymoon of any UF head coach in recorded history --.

He is one of the most hated former coordinators. Even more so than Zook.

78 · Jul 20, 2018

Swamp Donkey said:
He is one of the most hated former coordinators. Even more so than Zook.

I can maybe summon enough resentment to hate Mac. I don't think I can do that with Mullen. I know for damn sure I can't feel hate towards Zook. Pity, maybe. But not hate.

soflagator · Jul 20, 2018

Swamp Donkey said:
He is one of the most hated former coordinators. Even more so than Zook.

The problem I have with that, is that too much of the "hate" is centered around the type of offense he ran. There's an entire crowd that didn't want the spread, hated it the whole time it was here, and would almost prefer losing running a system like Spurrier's than winning with a system like Mullens.

When guys like Matthews spent the 2008 season complaining, and then the offseason between 2010 and 2011 calling Weis and WM "the best overall staff in UF history", it says a lot about how much their particular preference encroached on their ability to think rationally. Given their platform and notoriety, that took root and continued.

I'm not implying that it's the only reason behind his reputation as OC. But it's a lot. When many of us think about winning, we think of 5-wide sets and throwing the ball all over the place(in blue jerseys). Anything contrary to that is almost guaranteed to be treated as second rate.

To '78's point about the shortened honeymoon, I think that's more about everyone's lack of trust in the decision makers and the fact that the hire wasn't an absolute slam dunk. When there was a modicum of confidence--even optimism--about Foley's decisions, there was a lot less tendency to assume the worst. At this point, it's what most of us have become. Basically, where most went in to 2011, and to slightly lesser extent 2015, with guarded hope, the majority now have adopted the "I'll believe we won't be terrible when I see it" approach. It's just where we are.

Swamp Donkey · Jul 20, 2018

soflagator said:
The problem I have with that, is that too much of the "hate" is centered around the type of offense he ran. There's an entire crowd that didn't want the spread

I agree.... but ticky tac correction that it is THE OPTION we hate. And we have always hated it.

Im sure most would be happy with a Clemson style or similiar offense. That is a spread. For that matter, Spurrier ran a spread.

Btw, spread is a formation, not on offense, but Im getting beyond 099 level and I know no one cares.

The option is the type of offense that has always produced mediocrity at UF and elsewhere. ND is a great example, not just bc that is where Mulkunz hatched. ND was always one of the most talented teams in the country, even today still a team that takes Fla talent from us, and has always had a mediocre at best offense. But they love that option.

When guys like Matthews spent the 2008 season complaining, and then the offseason between

It was STILL a massive underuse of the talent on hand. Are you really telling me that an OC that cant score w Chris Leak and Chad Jackson and a dozen other NFL players is a good OC?
He is a C+ and his stats agree.

There was no reason to have close game after close game after close game with that much talent on the field from 2005-2010.

And yes, it is, in part, because SOS beat the brakes off teams at half time with a fraction of the NFL receivers and talent.

I dont like the option AT ALL even now bc it is a high risk, low reward ball control offense. It is the kind of offense you play at Bowling Green or Ga Southern bc you dont have the talent to do anything else.

Gators want to play Gatorball, not Notre Dame (or Doug Dickey) ball.

Gator Fever · Jul 20, 2018

I have no problem with Mullen's offense but you aren't going to be winning any SEC Championships with it if you don't at least come close to matching the other top teams in talent. That offense is shut down pretty easy if the defense has better talent than you have unless there is a Tebow/Cam Newton type playing QB.

soflagator · Jul 20, 2018

Swamp Donkey said:
I agree.... but ticky tac correction that it is THE OPTION we hate. And we have always hated it.

Im sure most would be happy with a Clemson style or similiar offense. That is a spread. For that matter, Spurrier ran a spread.

Btw, spread is a formation, not on offense, but Im getting beyond 099 level and I know no one cares.

The option is the type of offense that has always produced mediocrity at UF and elsewhere. ND is a great example, not just bc that is where Mulkunz hatched. ND was always one of the most talented teams in the country, even today still a team that takes Fla talent from us, and has always had a mediocre at best offense. But they love that option.

It was STILL a massive underuse of the talent on hand. Are you really telling me that an OC that cant score w Chris Leak and Chad Jackson and a dozen other NFL players is a good OC?
He is a C+ and his stats agree.

There was no reason to have close game after close game after close game with that much talent on the field from 2005-2010.

And yes, it is, in part, because SOS beat the brakes off teams at half time with a fraction of the NFL receivers and talent.

I dont like the option AT ALL even now bc it is a high risk, low reward ball control offense. It is the kind of offense you play at Bowling Green or Ga Southern bc you dont have the talent to do anything else.

Gators want to play Gatorball, not Notre Dame (or Doug Dickey) ball.

Yes, I meant to add the "option" there.

But where I disagree is that we grossly underutilized talent in years like '07 ad '08. We had a very fun offense in both years, with only a handful of games being closer, low-scoring contests. And outside of the OL, Percy, and Hernandez(Soph), I can't actually remember the NFL caliber talent we had on that '08 team. Yes, Nelson and Murphy went on to the league, but they were never "difference makers" in my view. And we lost our most dynamic threat outside of PH in fall camp.

I'll fully agree that the first two years weren't pretty on offense to say the least. But while we did have tremendous talent like Leak, the offense didn't fit them and we kind of knew that going in. To me, that was part of the transition. Could they have adapted better to fit what our guys could do, sure. But I don't hold up years like '05 and '06 as what I think we'd look like with the right personnel.

I'll also agree on your take on the spread option itself. I remember in early 2005 telling a friend that traditional offense look great when run properly and just kind of stop when they're not. But the option(which I'd never really watched intently until then) seemed like it was great when run properly and a complete disaster when it isn't. I think that's why so many were ready to change after 2010, into something different, despite what we'd recently won, in part, by playing that system.

To your last point, I'm totally fine with wanting what you want. As I said, no different than me seeing orange jerseys and immediately going back in my mind to the 80's teams losing heart breakers seemingly every Saturday. I'm just saying that Mullen could've stayed 10 years, and racked up 2 more titles and 2 more Heisman winners, and there would still be a segment of the Gator Nation that would say "yeah but". Again, it's fine by me. I just think it skews things a little.

78 · Jul 20, 2018

Swamp Donkey said:
I agree.... but ticky tac correction that it is THE OPTION we hate. And we have always hated it.

Im sure most would be happy with a Clemson style or similiar offense. That is a spread. For that matter, Spurrier ran a spread.

Btw, spread is a formation, not on offense, but Im getting beyond 099 level and I know no one cares.

The option is the type of offense that has always produced mediocrity at UF and elsewhere. ND is a great example, not just bc that is where Mulkunz hatched. ND was always one of the most talented teams in the country, even today still a team that takes Fla talent from us, and has always had a mediocre at best offense. But they love that option.

It was STILL a massive underuse of the talent on hand. Are you really telling me that an OC that cant score w Chris Leak and Chad Jackson and a dozen other NFL players is a good OC?
He is a C+ and his stats agree.

There was no reason to have close game after close game after close game with that much talent on the field from 2005-2010.

And yes, it is, in part, because SOS beat the brakes off teams at half time with a fraction of the NFL receivers and talent.

I dont like the option AT ALL even now bc it is a high risk, low reward ball control offense. It is the kind of offense you play at Bowling Green or Ga Southern bc you dont have the talent to do anything else.

Gators want to play Gatorball, not Notre Dame (or Doug Dickey) ball.

Please edify me on this Gatorball thing.

Swamp Donkey · Jul 20, 2018

'78 said:
I know for damn sure I can't feel hate towards Zook. Pity, maybe. But not hate.

Now, yeah. But he isn't destroying our program anymore.

Swamp Donkey · Jul 20, 2018

'78 said:
Please edify me on this Gatorball thing.

78 · Jul 20, 2018

Swamp Donkey said:

Eleven great years, but I'm not sure that necessarily defines Gatorball. We had electric offensive output under Meyer, Pell and, yes, Dickey in the mid-'70s, much of it on the ground with the latter.

I think the main thing for Mullen is getting the right blend of playmakers and a solid offensive line to open holes.

When you get down to it, Gatorball has really been about getting the ball to playmakers in space as much as anything. I'm guardedly hopeful we can do that again.

Swamp Donkey · Jul 20, 2018

soflagator said:
YBut where I disagree is that we grossly underutilized talent in years like '07 ad '08. We had a very fun offense in both years, with only a handful of games being closer, low-scoring contests. And outside of the OL, Percy, and Hernandez(Soph), I can't actually remember the NFL caliber talent we had on that '08 team. Yes, Nelson and Murphy went on to the league, but they were never "difference makers" in my view.

The offense was fun in 07 especially, a little less so in 08, especially after Tebow got hurt and with PH being out so regularly.

Yeah, IMO, NFL players SHOULD be pretty dominant in college. (I know, some kids get drafted or spend a year or two in the NFL just based on combine numbers but none of these aren't like that.) Riedel and Ike werent dominant in the NFL but they still had multiple 1000 yard years.

I'll fully agree that the first two years weren't pretty on offense to say the least. But while we did have tremendous talent like Leak, the offense didn't fit them and we kind of knew that going in. To me, that was part of the transition. Could they have adapted better to fit what our guys could do, sure.

Chris Leak was a 5 star QB and as accurate as they come. Not big enough for the NFL (and not with that NFL deep out cannon) but come on, man, you gotta be able to figure out what to do with that, and I don't just mean one freakin game in January 07... though that was of course a great game to finally unleash him.

Some claim that Creyer was actually the conservative one and Mullinz was held back. I guess throw that with "he couldn't open it up at Cowbell bc of talent". Eventually however you have a 15 year resume and a LOT of excuses.

Let's hope it is true that Creyer was the problem.

78 · Jul 20, 2018

Tebow got hurt in '09, not '08. The '08 offense was lots better than '07.

And Meyer wanted to run in Tallahassee in '08. Mullen said let's air it out. He persevered. We crushed FSU.

Swamp Donkey · Jul 20, 2018

'78 said:
Tebow got hurt in '09, not '08. The '08 offense was lots better than '07.

And Meyer wanted to run in Tallahassee in '08. Mullen said let's air it out. He persevered. We crushed FSU.

His arm was broken at one point and his ribs and shoulder I think earlier in the year, Ole Miss maybe.

The concussion was 09, yes.

You can't run a kid 20-30 times a game and not get him hurt. The truth is the season for a running back is one long injury.

Is Mullen really 2-15 all time vs ranked teams?

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