Oline, Oline, Oline

gatorev12 · Sep 18, 2018

For the life of me, I cannot understand why two supposedly bright coaches with SEC pedigree (Chump and Butters) ignored the fundamental basics for SEC play: controlling the line of scrimmage.

It doesn't matter if you run the spread, the power-I, or the wishbone;
It doesn't matter which decade, which team, or which football dynasty;
YOU NEED A DOMINANT OL TO WIN IN THE SEC.

Period and end of story. The fact that neither of our previous two coaches devoted much time or energy to OL recruiting and/or development is criminal negligence and utterly absurd.

We'll see what Mullen does in this department and I don't doubt that he was left a crappy deck from what he inherited; but he needs to IMMEDIATELY start calling 40 OL right now and starting turning on the charm.

ThreatMatrix · Sep 18, 2018

gatorev12 said:
For the life of me, I cannot understand why two supposedly bright coaches with SEC pedigree (Chump and Butters) ignored the fundamental basics for SEC play: controlling the line of scrimmage.

It doesn't matter if you run the spread, the power-I, or the wishbone;
It doesn't matter which decade, which team, or which football dynasty;
YOU NEED A DOMINANT OL TO WIN IN THE SEC.

Period and end of story. The fact that neither of our previous two coaches devoted much time or energy to OL recruiting and/or development is criminal negligence and utterly absurd.

We'll see what Mullen does in this department and I don't doubt that he was left a crappy deck from what he inherited; but he needs to IMMEDIATELY start calling 40 OL right now and starting turning on the charm.

Lyer, as discussed in a previous thread, left Chump with 4 NFLers albeit maybe not ideal depth. Chump must have thought they grew on trees. Or they just appeared out of the blue. In any case he didn't know how to recruit that side of the ball. And he didn't. Sharkhumper knew better but couldn't recruit worth damn. All those diamonds in the rough.
Mullen also knows better but it remains to be seen if he can recruit talent. We've got four, need six at minimum. I don't know if you can get more quality to sign because it makes for a crowded class in the recruits eyes.
But to your point you can't even play the game without a quality Oline.

Swamp Donkey · Sep 19, 2018

Defend the Swamp said:
Really interested in Buchanan’s play this week in Knoxville.
Appears to be improving.

At what?

It sure as hell isnt blocking.

ChiefGator · Sep 19, 2018

TheDouglas78 said:
should be recruiting 10-12 down linemen a year, the fail and injury rate of these positions are too high not to.

Is recruiting signing them? If so how do you keep so many on the line? Now I think we need to have 10-12 decent linemen always, perhaps more in some circumstances.

TheDouglas78 · Sep 19, 2018

Swamp Donkey said:
We should definitely be landing 5-6 every single year.

When I say down linemen, that is for both lines O and D, should be getting 5/6 of each each year.

TheDouglas78 · Sep 19, 2018

ChiefGator said:
Is recruiting signing them? If so how do you keep so many on the line? Now I think we need to have 10-12 decent linemen always, perhaps more in some circumstances.

Chief, I would say no, especially under Muschamp, McElwain's recruiting was better than Mushchamp's in this regard.

ChiefGator · Sep 19, 2018

TheDouglas78 said:
Chief, I would say no, especially under Muschamp, McElwain's recruiting was better than Mushchamp's in this regard.

That makes sense, you can't sign that many each year and some of those you recruit won't be coming anyhow. We agree without a good oline we won't have success.

Defend the Swamp · Sep 19, 2018

Swamp Donkey said:
At what?

It sure as hell isnt blocking.

Will see after this weekend. I’ve seen some really good things from him, along with the wtf moments.
Consider this nightmare...he’s been our 2nd best starting OL behind JT (with Tyler running a close 3rd). Yikes

He’s not the problem...even though he’s a project at a premium OL position. He will be more than tested with the heart of the schedule upcoming but I’m encouraged at some of the little things I’ve noticed.

He would immediately improve with Heggie to his right instead of Fred.
And where the hell is Moore? Is he hurt?

Gator Fever · Sep 19, 2018

LongTooth said:
I heard Heggie’s and Forsythe’s names getting called on the radio broadcasts and it was well before garbage time so it seems they are working their way into the rotation more.

Forsythe looked alright when starting against that FCS team because of suspensions. He seemed to know his reponsibilities anyway unlike some of the other O linemen. Against FSU last year he was bad for releasing defenders too quickly - kind of like the crap Ivey is doing this year. Forsythe kind of has that get off the bus first look now since he has added some muscle.

BMF · Sep 19, 2018

TheDouglas78 said:
When I say down linemen, that is for both lines O and D, should be getting 5/6 of each each year.

That's a lot easier said than done. Even the Bama's, UGA's, etc aren't bringing in that many (every year). I agree we should try to get 5-6 OL's/year and there is no excuse to miss a year at DT, like Butters did. I scanned through Bama's classes and they've had several years under Saban w/ less than 5 OL's.

Regarding JUCO's, I think Spurrier had 4 JUCO's his entire tenure. He fought w/ the admissions office about it and I think the standards were loosened under Zook, who signed at least 3 JUCO OL's during his 3 years. Muschamp bought in a few (Trenton Brown is starting for New England now). And Butters brought in one? (who was a bust).

Saban has done a great job of plugging DL holes with JUCO's (how does Alabama even have holes anywhere on their roster?). I'd like to see us do that....but OL's seem to be long-shots from JUCO's.

Ole Miss currently has 8 OL's committed in this class. I like that approach, as you can "encourage" the busts to transfer/move on. Signing less than 5 OL's in this 2019 class will be a failure.

Gator Fever · Sep 19, 2018

alcoholica said:
I think we can significantly improve our OL if we have a suitable backup RT. Move Taylor to LT, Ivey to G, and slide in a RT. Oh and move Johnson out of the Line

I wonder if Taylor would be more of a liability at LT since the speed guys give him fits. If Ivey keeps his mess up maybe just give Forsythe a chance there and see how he does.

TheDouglas78 · Sep 19, 2018

BMF said:
That's a lot easier said than done. Even the Bama's, UGA's, etc aren't bringing in that many (every year). I agree we should try to get 5-6 OL's/year and there is no excuse to miss a year at DT, like Butters did. I scanned through Bama's classes and they've had several years under Saban w/ less than 5 OL's.

Regarding JUCO's, I think Spurrier had 4 JUCO's his entire tenure. He fought w/ the admissions office about it and I think the standards were loosened under Zook, who signed at least 3 JUCO OL's during his 3 years. Muschamp bought in a few (Trenton Brown is starting for New England now). And Butters brought in one? (who was a bust).

Saban has done a great job of plugging DL holes with JUCO's (how does Alabama even have holes anywhere on their roster?). I'd like to see us do that....but OL's seem to be long-shots from JUCO's.

Ole Miss currently has 8 OL's committed in this class. I like that approach, as you can "encourage" the busts to transfer/move on. Signing less than 5 OL's in this 2019 class will be a failure.

BMF, did a break down of classes last fall year of Alabama and Ohio State, they were both averaging just over 9 down line a year. You aren't going to get 10-12, but you should target 10-12. Alabama since Nick Saban has started (07-19) has average 4 OL recruits a year, and 5.61 DL recruits a year. Meyer at Ohio State ('12-19) has averaged 4.125 OL and 4 DL recruits a year. The averages actual go up if you remove the 2019 class. I had done a spread sheet on this last year do to a discussion with a co-worker, so just had to add 2018 and 2019 numbers.

JUCO are a good way to fill holes, because of the attrition at the position. I believe the failure rate of OL and DL are higher than any other position due to the stress on the body (300 pound guys slamming against each other is bad for the joints).

Swamp Donkey · Sep 19, 2018

TheDouglas78 said:
When I say down linemen, that is for both lines O and D, should be getting 5/6 of each each year.

Should be 5 OL and 4 DL every year. Maybe 5 DL.

Or else you become DBU and are 4-8.

Swamp Donkey · Sep 19, 2018

Defend the Swamp said:
Will see after this weekend. I’ve seen some really good things from him, along with the wtf moments.
Consider this nightmare...he’s been our 2nd best starting OL behind JT (with Tyler running a close 3rd). ?

Sorry.... but no. He is our second worst, by a large margin. A confused speed bump, nothing more.

Id have to say Jordan is #2. He hasnt been good but he is never the guy whiffing or getting bowled over.

Defend the Swamp · Sep 19, 2018

Swamp Donkey said:
Sorry.... but no. He is our second worst, by a large margin. A confused speed bump, nothing more.

Id have to say Jordan is #2. He hasnt been good but he is never the guy whiffing or getting bowled over.

TJ has the drive, just lacks the talent.
NB, imho, has a higher ceiling.
Both Ivey and Fred appear terribly uncoachable.
Only judging what I’ve seen on tape this year.

Swamp Donkey · Sep 19, 2018

Defend the Swamp said:
TJ has the drive, just lacks the talent.
NB, imho, has a higher ceiling..

DTs just blow past him. Not sure what you are seeing.

He looks like the same guy from last year who got clowned by walkons to me.

NVGator · Sep 19, 2018

Swamp Donkey said:
Should be 5 OL and 4 DL every year. Maybe 5 DL.

Or else you become DBU and are 4-8.

LOL. Remember when everyone was so hyped on being DBU and we signed 8-10 DBs every year? Good times.

Defend the Swamp · Sep 19, 2018

Swamp Donkey said:
DTs just blow past him. Not sure what you are seeing.

He looks like the same guy from last year who got clowned by walkons to me.

If I’m fos, I will retract. But if if the improvement I see continues, he will be an asset by the end of the year...and might remain the starting center all next year.
Give him three more games to confirm & I will point out a few things I’m seeing.

Swamp Donkey · Sep 19, 2018

Defend the Swamp said:
If I’m fos, I will retract. But if if the improvement I see continues, he will be an asset by the end of the year...and might remain the starting center all next year.
Give him three more games to confirm & I will point out a few things I’m seeing.

Tell me a few plays, time hacks, later when you are home. Ive literally seen nothing positive from him. I have no idea why he is playing, other than these coaches seemingly defaulting to seniors at DB and OL.

McCoy was much better last year, though below average due to size and strength.

Defend the Swamp · Sep 19, 2018

Swamp Donkey said:
Tell me a few plays, time hacks, later when you are home. Ive literally seen nothing positive from him. I have no idea why he is playing, other than these coaches seemingly defaulting to seniors at DB and OL.

McCoy was much better last year, though below average due to size and strength.

Will do. I just want to see it against better DL until I’m convinced.
It’s more of a projection than this very minute. Will say I was intrigued the first game, opponent notwithstanding

Oline, Oline, Oline

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