Ali vs. Liston II: Was the fix in?

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53 years ago to the day, Miami Beach, the rematch. A shocking first-round KO from what appeared to be a phantom punch. 1:44.

Did Ali, nee Cassius Clay, really connect with Liston or was it pre-arranged by organized crime?

Florida attorney general Richard Gerstein concluded after a month-long investigation that there was no fix and a US Senate subcommittee later concurred.

Dunno. Looked fake to me.

 

[stephenPE]

no

 

[GatorJ]

wow Ali was a master at slipping punches. I've never seen this fight but that didn't look like a phantom punch to me. It looked like he got hit right in the ear hole. I remember a few times getting hit in the ear hole in football. You can't even stand up afterwards.

 

[78]

The thing that impresses me most about that ancient reel is how catlike the young Ali was in the ring. This was not a small man. He literally did float like a butterfly. And with the lightning-quick jab, he stung like a bee.

Re the punch, I made the mistake of posting before I watched the entire video. The slow-mo near the end shows Liston's head jerking from the thrust of the Ali jab. Poof! Done.

Ali, easily the best ever.

 

[Windy City Gator]

I wonder why at the :23 mark ESPN Classic says the fight was taking place in Lewiston, ME??

 

[78]

I wonder why at the :23 mark ESPN Classic says the fight was taking place in Lewiston, ME??

Because it was. The first meeting the year before was in Miami Beach. I got 'em switched up. My bad.

 

[gatorgrad'02]

The thing that impresses me most about that ancient reel is how catlike the young Ali was in the ring. This was not a small man. He literally did float like a butterfly. And with the lightning-quick jab, he stung like a bee.

Re the punch, I made the mistake of posting before I watched the entire video. The slow-mo near the end shows Liston's head jerking from the thrust of the Ali jab. Poof! Done.

Ali, easily the best ever.

Spot on. A true 6’3”+ and 230 to 240 lbs heavyweight that moved around the ring like a lightweight. Absolutely magnificent to watch him in his prime.

 

[78]

Spot on. A true 6’3”+ and 230 to 240 lbs heavyweight that moved around the ring like a lightweight. Absolutely magnificent to watch him in his prime.

At 0:43 he does the Ali Shuffle.

 

[Okeechobee Joe]

Sonny Liston was badass. He was too old to fight Clay (Ali). Maybe Liston in his prime would have done a lot better. At least he didn't say "pussy".

 

[78]

Sonny Liston was badass. He was too old to fight Clay (Ali). Maybe Liston in his prime would have done a lot better. At least he didn't say "pussy".

Liston was like Frazier and Tyson, a brawler. Ali was at his best against that kind of opponent. As he got older, it morphed into Rope A Dope.

Ali would let the opponent stalk and stalk and get worn down chasing him all over the ring, then lower the boom with an opportunistic jab. He did it time and time again.

So entertaining to watch.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

I think possibly Clay (later Ali) hurt Liston at the 1:08 mark. As I remember, commentators discussed that possibility in the aftermath the fight. After the 1:08 mark Liston does not seem to be moving as well nor punching as well. Then the knock down blow is a short shot to the temple (maybe the ear hole as someone suggested.) Liston certainly looks hurt and it is not like he showed to be a natural actor after his fight career.

 

[CaribGator]

Not this fight, but the Ali - Spinks circus was a total fix. Ali the greatest..(he even let everyone know) couldn't lose to just anybody.. along comes an American hero, Olympic champ.. great marketing, great matchup.

And the rest is history.

 

[78]

Not this fight, but the Ali - Spinks circus was a total fix. Ali the greatest..(he even let everyone know) couldn't lose to just anybody.. along comes an American hero, Olympic champ.. great marketing, great matchup.

And the rest is history.

I watched the first one in Gainesville. Ali was already a shell of his former self.

 

[78]

Fight of the Century, Ali vs. Frazier, Madison Square Garden, 1971.

DOWN GOES FRAZIER!

The two literally beat the crap out of each other. Look at Ali use Frazier's face as a punching bag. Ali took a beating, too. Best fight ever.

 

[GatorJ]

Fight of the Century, Ali vs. Frazier, Madison Square Garden, 1971.

DOWN GOES FRAZIER!

The two literally beat the crap out of each other. Look at Ali use Frazier's face as a punching bag. Ali took a beating, too. Best fight ever.

I just watched that video. Never saw that fight. But I don’t know what you mean than Frazier goes down. He literally beats the crap out of Muhammad Ali the entire clip. And then wins by decision at the end.

 

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I just watched that video. Never saw that fight. But I don’t know what you mean than Frazier goes down. He literally beats the crap out of Muhammad Ali the entire clip. And then wins by decision at the end.

Down goes Frazier was actually a Frazier-Foreman fight. I used the term loosely.

The first Ali-Frazier was the worst physical beating of Ali's career, but they both came away battered and bruised. You only saw snippets in that video. It went the distance.

The thing you have to know about Ali was how slippery he was with the jab. I think you alluded to it earlier in the thread. You knew when Frazier landed a punch. It was more like a roundhouse. Ali inflicted cumulative damage.

 

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This is the actual DOWN GOES FRAZIER fight, with Cosell on the call.

 

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BTW, Ali had only recently returned to the ring from the Vietnam exile (the Supreme Court overturned his draft evasion conviction) when he faced Frazier in 1971.

 

[Marine1]

I don’t think the fix was in. But I do think Liston quit. Ali was maddening to him. Liston was dominating in that era and along comes this kid he saw as a loudmouth punk. Then he realized he can’t lay a glove on him and could not defend against Ali’s speed and jab. It was a real punch and a real knockdown...but Liston knew at that point he could not win.

Ali-Frazier I was a classic no doubt. Frazier wins with the knockdown which was an absolute haymaker. Amazingly Ali popped right up. Not sure anyone else could have. They beat hell out of each other. Both went to the hospital....Frazier for close to 2 weeks.

The Thrilla in Manila was the best fight of all-time. They destroyed each other.....literally. Should have been both of their retirement fight. There were 2 occasions where Ali had Frazier nearly out but Frazier just wouldn’t go down. When Joe didn’t answer the bell for the 15th.....Ali immediately collapsed...said it was the closest to death he could ever imagine. Joe said he hit Ali with shots that would have toppled a brick wall but he wouldn’t go down. The temperature in the arena was about 120 degrees. It was an unbelievable fight, I still get chills watching it.

Ali was the best fighter I’ve ever seen. He had size, speed and instincts that were unparalleled. He was the best tactician I’ve seen. His last couple of fights before the suspension was a man that no fighter...before or since...could have beat.

 

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