Beer Info Needed...

[ppinesgator]

In regards to Belgium, buy yourself a bottle of Chimay Grand Reserve for the holidays. Sit under your Christmas tree, put on some Vincent Guaraldi and sip your way into a Christmas nirvana.

 

[cover2]

In regards to Belgium, buy yourself a bottle of Chimay Grand Reserve for the holidays. Sit under your Christmas tree, put on some Vincent Guaraldi and sip your way into a Christmas nirvana.

I'm not familiar with the Chimay, but do you think it would go ok with Elvis' "Blue Christmas" or the Boss' "Merry Christmas Baby?"

Seriously, my quick research shows it to be a pretty good ale. Just kinda hard to find this label here in the panhandle, if you can believe that.

Another question...what German darks would be suggested? There was one on the menu at the place in Helen where I had the Erdinger that I was going to try until I realized that the Erdinger glass was about the size of three bottles. Ordinarily, that wouldn't be a problem and I'd have ordered several more, but with the family in tow I'd hate for the kids to have to see me pull my shirt off and brawl with three or four cats wearing lederhosen.

 

[ppinesgator]

I'm not familiar with the Chimay, but do you think it would go ok with Elvis' "Blue Christmas" or the Boss' "Merry Christmas Baby?"

Seriously, my quick research shows it to be a pretty good ale. Just kinda hard to find this label here in the panhandle, if you can believe that.

Another question...what German darks would be suggested? There was one on the menu at the place in Helen where I had the Erdinger that I was going to try until I realized that the Erdinger glass was about the size of three bottles. Ordinarily, that wouldn't be a problem and I'd have ordered several more, but with the family in tow I'd hate for the kids to have to see me pull my shirt off and brawl with three or four cats wearing lederhosen.

Flattered you ask, but I lack the expertise of Sas in regards to individual Belgium brands, so will defer to him. Although he's a large, hairy and barely upright mammal, he's a veteran consumer of more than 500 types of beer at World of Beer. He's much more qualified to comment, given my enthusiastically consumed but more more limited sample size.

Also, Chimay is expensive as hell. That's why I buy a bottle for myself for Christmas.

Okay, I bought one for myself for New Year's last year as well, but that's because I'd been a good boy.

 

[GatorBart]

In regards to Belgium, buy yourself a bottle of Chimay Grand Reserve for the holidays. Sit under your Christmas tree, put on some Vincent Guaraldi and sip your way into a Christmas nirvana.

The Belgium Standard

The best Belgium beer? Well, my brother and I used to have these beer battles a few years back and we'd invite friends to help us taste all the beers we would accumulate, especially the Belgians since they're so strong, come in big bottles, and we tried 22 different ones. Here's our top 10 (note, this battle was held March 30, 2002 and was dubbed "The Battle in Seattle - Masters of Belgium").
1. Westvleteren 12 - Trappist Ale (Westvkleteren Abbey)
2. Rochefort 10 - Trappist Ale (Rochefort)
3. Piraat Ale - Abbey Ale (Van Steenberge)
4. Vondel - Brown Ale (Riva SA)
5. Vervifontaine - Amber Ale (Vervifontaine)
6. La Trappe Quadrupel - Abbey Ale (Koeningshoeven)
7. Grand Reserve - Trappist Ale (Chimay)
8. Westamalle Triple - Trappist Ale ((Westamalle)
9. Gulden Draak - Abbey Ale (Van Steenberge)
10. Affigem Triple - Abbey Ale (De Smedt)

FYI Sas - Delirium Tremens finished 21 out of 22.

Here's the write-up my brother prepared after the battle:

Maybe there is a glimmer of hope the best of the Belgians can compete. The Chimay Grande Reserve, which has been used as the standard for all battles against which all other contestants have been measured, and consistently overshadowed by domestic high octanes even though it was the best Belgian in the Original Battle, finished 7th among 22 Belgian Ales in The Battle in Seattle last weekend as shown in this scoring file.

It was clearly the most brutal battle yet. To begin the event, six judges were told their scores vested only if they drank their share of the first 21 contestants. Only 4 survived. One judge was one beer short, but passed out as we were handing him his final glass. All the scores have been posted in the attached file, but only the scores of the 4 surviving judges have been used to determine the outcome. The usual exhibition scoring was limited to a single bottle of Stone's 5th Anniversary IPA before the remaining judges through in the towel, and in fact, scores could not be elicited from the judges for that beer.

The field of contestants was very strong. At belgianstyles.com, the Board of Battles discovered that there are only six true Trappist Ales in the world, all in Belgium. Four were in the battle, including the one they said could not be found off the grounds of the monastery. While on vacation in Florida the week before the battle, I found Westvleteren 12 at the World of Beer in Clearwater. The owners of this tiny little rundown shack said they bootlegged it in. Good thing, because this one took top honors among all 22 contestants. It only cost $72 for a six pack of 11.2 oz. bottles, which is a lot cheaper than a trip to Belgium.

However, the High Octane Board feels the field was still incomplete. Triple Grimbergen, Bush Beer and St. Sixtus Abbey Ale did not appear for the battle. At the last minute St. Paul Double was removed from the line-up in favor of Bornem Double, because the size of the bottle did not fit the established pattern. In retrospect, the board feels this was a mistake as the Bornem Double fared poorly and is produced by the same brewery that makes Augustijn Ale, another contestant that fell to the bottom of the rankings. The true Trappist Ale Achel was omitted from the battle because it was closely aligned with Rochefort Trappist Ale, which was in the battle. Then the Rochefort 10 finished second in the battle. Perhaps Achel is a strong candidate.

In addition, there is controversy among the judges concerning the 3rd place finish (the last spot for the High Octane Championship) awarded to Piraat Ale. While three judges approved highly, two judges were negative, but one of those negative scores came from the judge who passed out on the last beer, and therefore it was tossed out. After deliberations, the Board of Battles has made this determination:


1. Westvleteren 12 will remain as official winner of The Battle in Seattle

2. Rochefort 10 will remain as official runner-up of The Battle in Seattle

3. A run-off will be held to determine the third and final spot for the High Octane Championship. The contestants who qualify for entry in the run-off include all those missing from the Battle in Seattle (should they be found),

- Triple Grimbergen

- Bush Beer

- St. Sixtus Abbey Ale

- St. Paul Double

- Achel Trappist Ale

and the contestants that finished 3-8 in the Battle in Seattle (those in close contention for the spot).

- Piraat Ale

- Vondel

- Vervifontaine Red

- Chimay Grande Reserve

- Westmalle Triple

4. The La Trappe Quadrupel, which actually finished tied for 5th, is eliminated from further competition, because it has since been discovered it is actually brewed in Holland, not Belgium.

 

[AlexDaGator]

Belgian beers tend to be more "interesting" than German beers. No slight to the Germans who make great beers. Just a personal preference.

Whereas German brewers were hamstrung by the Reinheitsgebot (beer purity law that limited ingredients to water, barley, hops, and yeast), the Trappist Monks in Belgium were going crazy experimenting with everything under the sun, even the wild yeast floating around in the air of their Abbeys. Belgium has an incredible diversity of beer styles.

The best pilseners are German (or Czech). That's what your mainstream American beers are modeled after (but more generic so as to offend the fewest palates). You should taste a Pilsener Urquell at least once in your life so you understand what inspired American beers. That said, I have drunk lots of American beer in my life. It has its place.

To get a taste of something different, try a traditional bottle-conditioned Belgian ale. When an American beer is bottled, it is "dead". All the fermenting is done and most are carbonated like coca cola. Many of the Belgians are more like champagne, they are bottled before all the yeast consumes all the sugars so they are corked and continue to ferment in the bottle which is how they are naturally carbonated. This means they can "age" like a wine, and the flavor changes over time. American beers don't age and they go bad (skunky) over time.

Some of the common Belgian labels available are Chimay, Orval, Duvel. You'll see Abbey Ales or Trappist Ales labeled "dubbel" or "tripel". Dubbels tend to be yeasty, sweeter, brown ales while tripels are dry and golden in color. There is also saison (very unique, fruity, spicy, appeals to chardonnay drinkers) and lambic/gueuze. A Belgian lambic is often flavored with fruit (kriek-cherry, framboise-raspberry, etc.). While American fruit beers tend to taste like cough syrup or a jolly rancher, a Belgian Lambic isn't sweet like that. You get the strong aroma and flavor, but not the cloying sweetness that is annoying as hell in something like Sam Adams Cherry Wheat. Yuck. The most common Lambic you see are Lindemans.

Here is the thing about Belgians...huge diversity. So ask if you can get a taste first (if they have Belgians on tap).

My favorite American Belgians were made by a real Belgian; Pierre Celis. This guy brought wheat beer back from the dead with Hoegaarden back in the day. He moved to Texas and brewed fantastic beers that were nearly impossible to find in Florida. Just as good as the imported Belgians for a fraction of the price. He sold the business and passed away. I haven't seen his products recently and wonder if the quality is the same.


Alex.

 

[NavetG8r]

 

[LighthouseGator]

The Belgium Standard


The best Belgium beer? Well, my brother and I used to have these beer battles a few years back and we'd invite friends to help us taste all the beers we would accumulate, especially the Belgians since they're so strong, come in big bottles, and we tried 22 different ones. Here's our top 10 (note, this battle was held March 30, 2002 and was dubbed "The Battle in Seattle - Masters of Belgium").
1. Westvleteren 12 - Trappist Ale (Westvkleteren Abbey)
2. Rochefort 10 - Trappist Ale (Rochefort)

The Westie 12 has no rival. The Rochefort 10 is a nice substitute and it is available (some beer snob friends of mine prefer it), and I agree that it's definitely the runner up, but there ain't nothing like the Westie. Just good luck finding it for a reasonable price.

Off topic and maybe a bridge too far, but, Cover, you don't have to go all the way to Germany for a good beer, as there are some incredible craft american beers out there, especially IPAs. My personal faves are Ballast Point Sculpin and Bell's Two Hearted, both of which are available at Total Wine and Whole Foods (at least in my hood). That said, German Beers are mostly excellent across the board - very clean yet full of flavor.


Now I'll go back to the sports board, where instead of enjoying beer, we're all just crying in it.

 

[GatorBart]

Yeah, those Westi's were costing close to $15 for a 12-ounce bottle, and that was 13 years ago.
Funny thing is I don't really like Belgian beers, again, being too sweet, and generally too carbonated, for my taste.
I prefer IPAs and agree that Ballast Point Sculpin and Bell's Two-Hearted are both solid choices. There's so many IPAs out there anymore with different hop varieties and profiles, it really comes down to what you have a taste for (some hops are more hoppy than others, some more bitter, some more aromatic, some more flavorful). San Deigo County is probably IPA heaven with Ballast Point, Green Flash, Alpine, Stone, Port, Alesmith......all making spectacular varieties of IPA.

 

[Swamp Queen]

Yeah, those Westi's were costing close to $15 for a 12-ounce bottle, and that was 13 years ago.
Funny thing is I don't really like Belgian beers, again, being too sweet, and generally too carbonated, for my taste.
I prefer IPAs and agree that Ballast Point Sculpin and Bell's Two-Hearted are both solid choices. There's so many IPAs out there anymore with different hop varieties and profiles, it really comes down to what you have a taste for (some hops are more hoppy than others, some more bitter, some more aromatic, some more flavorful). San Deigo County is probably IPA heaven with Ballast Point, Green Flash, Alpine, Stone, Port, Alesmith......all making spectacular varieties of IPA.

I'm not a big fan of cat piss so I stay away from IPAs.

 

[GatorBart]

I'm not a big fan of cat piss so I stay away from IPAs.

To each his own - it's an acquired taste for sure. The first time I had a Racer 5 IPA from Bear Republic about 15 years ago, I thought they way over did it with the hops and remember telling my brother that I may not be able to drink more than one - now it's a middle of the road, but still solid, IPA, IMO, and I would gladly drink more than one.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Drinking a very hoppy beer reminds me of when we got busy at the college bar back in the day and sometimes the glasses didn't get cleaned enough. Soapy water in them.

Hops tastes like shyt. I would never pay a penny for one of those. And I wouldn't drink a free one.

It's funny because the history of IPA is that it was designed to keep from getting funky on long trips to from England to India aboard ship. No one actually liked the taste. I doubt anyone does now either but to be hip you have to drink beer that tastes like stale shyt. It's part of the uniform, along with $7 Starbucks bitter burnt coffee and Ieverythings.

Hops is cheap. Malt is expensive. So a hoppy beer can be sold much more cheaply than some shytty IPA.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

I'm sorry Nav, I have to retract that like. I couldn't see the PBR pic on my phone I guess.

No offense.

 

[NavetG8r]

I'm sorry Nav, I have to retract that like. I couldn't see the PBR pic on my phone I guess.

No offense.

It was supposed to be a joke. I thought you liked it because you "got it". Guess not... :wobble:

 

[Captain Sasquatch]

Drinking a very hoppy beer reminds me of when we got busy at the college bar back in the day and sometimes the glasses didn't get cleaned enough. Soapy water in them.

Hops tastes like shyt. I would never pay a penny for one of those. And I wouldn't drink a free one.

It's funny because the history of IPA is that it was designed to keep from getting funky on long trips to from England to India aboard ship. No one actually liked the taste. I doubt anyone does now either but to be hip you have to drink beer that tastes like stale shyt. It's part of the uniform, along with $7 Starbucks bitter burnt coffee and Ieverythings.

Hops is cheap. Malt is expensive. So a hoppy beer can be sold much more cheaply than some shytty IPA.

No matter how many things we disagree on, we'll always have Pink Floyd and a severe hatred of IPAs.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

It was supposed to be a joke. I thought you liked it because you "got it". Guess not... :wobble:

I'm a failure.

 

[cover2]

I'm sorry Nav, I have to retract that like. I couldn't see the PBR pic on my phone I guess.

No offense.

I got to give it a like. Drank enough of it in my formative years. Would catch it on sale at one of the Jr stores for about $2 a six. Chase some skirts, dance at the Horseshoe, fight a little, tear some sh!t up, then wake up the next morning with what felt like a broad head ax buried in my skull. "Headache in a can" was what we fondly called PBR. Ah, the good ol' days! I guess this part of my past and what maturity I have acquired are fueling my quest for better beer. One more favor from you knowledgable guys (Sas, Bart, Law, Pines, etc.)...what would you recommend in a good German dark and what are the favorable characteristics? I appreciate you!

One quick PBR story...me and the boys started out one Friday evening at the West End Lounge. Drank up a bunch of PBR on tap before the barkeep, Ms. Nettie B. Gilbert (since departed, God rest her dear old soul), ran us out for being too loud. We made a beeline for the Horseshoe and quickly set up shop and continued with the PBR. as Nav mentioned, I got the need to rid myself of the Vitamin P and went to the head.

Two of my boys and a Mexican chap were already in there and my buddy Andy Gay was punching the big plate glass mirror and trying to break it, to no avail. Of course, my testosterone immediately kicked in and I told Andy to move aside and I'd show him how it's done. So, instead of simply punching it, I walk up and head butt the mirror...and it shattered into about a million pieces. After a few "Well I'll be damned's" and a "Dios Mio" from the Mexican, we hauled ass back into the crowd in the bar. I could see the manager and a deputy sheriff working security head into the bathroom then come out and post up by the door to catch the perpetrator, who they said was bleeding.

It was at that moment I felt something drip on my ear and it wasn't condensation from one of the AC vents. I was bleeding. The mirror had wounded me. I was about to panic, so I found my riding buddy Monk Ford (who lives in Gainesville to this day) and told him I had to get the hell outta there. The front door wasn't an option as they were still blocking it and had called another deputy to start checking the crowd. The only other way out was a side door that was boarded up and nailed shut.

I told monk to go get his jeep and be waiting by the old side door. In 5 minutes, I'd be out to join him. He eased out after answering a few questions from the manager and I nervously waited for the time to lapse. At the 5 minute mark, I backed up from the side door, got a running start, and ran through it like when Lawrence Wright KTFO'd Joey Kent. The door flew off the hinges and hit the ground outside with me on top. I sprang to my feet and jumped in Monk's jeep and we escaped a few steps ahead of the law. I laid low for two weeks, expecting the sheriff to come get me any day, but he never did. I quit PBR after that...but I didn't quit beer altogether. I'm just looking for something a little more sophisticated nowadays.

 

[alcoholica]

Need some specific help from some of the aficionados on here. We went to Helen GA this past weekend and enjoyed their version of Oktoberfest. I tried a couple of German Beers and found one that I really enjoyed...Erdinger Weissbrau. Now, I don't know much about the different types, brewing processes, etc., but I looked this one up and see that it is described as a wheat beer (Hefe-Weizen). Great taste and a really nice aroma. I'd like for it to become my non-domestic choice and as such, would like to know of any other beers of this variety you all could suggest. When trying to find where Erdinger can be purchased, the nearest place I could find is Jax. Luckily, I'm going over for the GA game and will purchase a stock, but if there are any similar favorites that can be bought a little closer to home (Tallahassee area), I'd appreciate the info. Thanks in advance!

View attachment 4123

Tallahassee has at least one good brewery (Proof), but I hear they have a couple other good ones too. I've been to Proof a couple of times and had really good beers both times. You could always see if any of the breweries have something you like.

 

[crosscreekcooter]

I got to give it a like. Drank enough of it in my formative years. Would catch it on sale at one of the Jr stores for about $2 a six. Chase some skirts, dance at the Horseshoe, fight a little, tear some sh!t up, then wake up the next morning with what felt like a broad head ax buried in my skull. "Headache in a can" was what we fondly called PBR. Ah, the good ol' days! I guess this part of my past and what maturity I have acquired are fueling my quest for better beer. One more favor from you knowledgable guys (Sas, Bart, Law, Pines, etc.)...what would you recommend in a good German dark and what are the favorable characteristics? I appreciate you!

One quick PBR story...me and the boys started out one Friday evening at the West End Lounge. Drank up a bunch of PBR on tap before the barkeep, Ms. Nettie B. Gilbert (since departed, God rest her dear old soul), ran us out for being too loud. We made a beeline for the Horseshoe and quickly set up shop and continued with the PBR. as Nav mentioned, I got the need to rid myself of the Vitamin P and went to the head.

Two of my boys and a Mexican chap were already in there and my buddy Andy Gay was punching the big plate glass mirror and trying to break it, to no avail. Of course, my testosterone immediately kicked in and I told Andy to move aside and I'd show him how it's done. So, instead of simply punching it, I walk up and head butt the mirror...and it shattered into about a million pieces. After a few "Well I'll be damned's" and a "Dios Mio" from the Mexican, we hauled ass back into the crowd in the bar. I could see the manager and a deputy sheriff working security head into the bathroom then come out and post up by the door to catch the perpetrator, who they said was bleeding.

It was at that moment I felt something drip on my ear and it wasn't condensation from one of the AC vents. I was bleeding. The mirror had wounded me. I was about to panic, so I found my riding buddy Monk Ford (who lives in Gainesville to this day) and told him I had to get the hell outta there. The front door wasn't an option as they were still blocking it and had called another deputy to start checking the crowd. The only other way out was a side door that was boarded up and nailed shut.

I told monk to go get his jeep and be waiting by the old side door. In 5 minutes, I'd be out to join him. He eased out after answering a few questions from the manager and I nervously waited for the time to lapse. At the 5 minute mark, I backed up from the side door, got a running start, and ran through it like when Lawrence Wright KTFO'd Joey Kent. The door flew off the hinges and hit the ground outside with me on top. I sprang to my feet and jumped in Monk's jeep and we escaped a few steps ahead of the law. I laid low for two weeks, expecting the sheriff to come get me any day, but he never did. I quit PBR after that...but I didn't quit beer altogether. I'm just looking for something a little more sophisticated nowadays.

You wouldn't happen to remember your mom running around with a tall rather good looking blond dude would you?

 

[Swamp Donkey]

I One more favor from you knowledgable guys (Sas, Bart, Law, Pines, etc.)

Im not knowledgeable. I was in your shoes a short time ago.

That being said, milk stouts are a great way to move inti stouts. Try something like Left Hand Brewery Milk Stout. Its still one my faves.

 

[AlexDaGator]

Depends on what you mean by "dark".

I like double (doppel) bocks, and Oktoberfests which are darker than pilsners but not really dark (Oktoberfests run deep gold to Amber, doppel bocks a bit darker).

There is a dark German lager called Köstritzer Schwarzbier that I like. It's really dark but very drinkable.

Alex.