Detailed article on Mullen's offense

Discussion in 'Main Sports Forum' started by williston_gator, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. Captain Sasquatch

    Captain Sasquatch Mr. SQ, the Sashole
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    After your contributions to the coaching search ( :brad: ), you should probably pipe down.
     
  2. Captain Sasquatch

    Captain Sasquatch Mr. SQ, the Sashole
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    Someone saying they think there’s a 0% chance Mullen will do worse than Mac is an opinion. It has no factual accuracy or inaccuracy. Saying South Alabama is Division 2 or FCS is factually incorrect, and staggeringly easy to prove or disprove.
     
  3. ThreatMatrix

    ThreatMatrix Well he's not Mac - so we got that going for us
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  4. ltraz

    ltraz Well-Known Member

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    Unless you believe in time travel it is factually incorrect to say there is a 0% chance. Saying they thought there was very little chance would be an opinion. There is of course a chance and that is a fact. It cannot be a fact that there is 0% chance (aka...no chance) and a chance so you tell me which the fact is.
     
  5. cover2

    cover2 I've grown old
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    I think his recruiting goal will be to consistently be in the top 10 classes (and actually in the top 5 should be do-able). There's a big difference in #27 and #10 (and below), particularly in terms of players that can play earlier and in the amount of development required. For example, many of your 4 and 5 star guys come from larger programs that compete consistently at a high level of competition. It's not a big shock to them when they get their @ss beat in a drill (opposed to for the first time ever like some guys who are used to being the baddest @ss on the field every Friday). Also, even though the gap may be narrowing in terms of HS strength/agility development among all levels of schools, but a lot of your higher stars are ahead in this parameter as well. Their bodies on average are more ready for college football. As a guy who has been a strength coach, I believe you know this already. Just something to think about where superior athletes/players are concerned.

    Last thing to consider...if you and I were opposing coaches that started at the same time and we were playing against each other in year 4 with comparable staffs and my team was averaging top 10 recruiting classes and yours were averaging #27, I feel comfortable that I could win 9/10 or maybe 10/10 in the series unless turnovers were ever a major factor. I'd also feel pretty confident that my offense, "high school" or otherwise, would have success against you. If the roles were reversed, I think you would come out on top. That's how important I think the recruiting piece will be along with proper development.
     
    #125 cover2, Dec 2, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
  6. ltraz

    ltraz Well-Known Member

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    Interesting points. I'd agree regarding the player development comment (some players are rated lower just bc they're nite supposed to start til they're jrs, but mullen was still having big issues 7 years into his tenure and plenty of other coaches have overcome it with less talent. I agree it plays a role, but just not sure how far we take that excuse. Did anyone watching msu feel they were significantly physically overmatched by uga or auburn? Overmatched at all against South Alabama or byu?

    I also completely agree with which of our teams would win. But if we played 3 times, would you feel like you did an ok job if I outscored you 111 to 37? I'd say you did ok, but definitely nothing to indicate you were more than an average coach and if we were going completely by that analogy, I wouldn't want you to be the UF coach. Sorry buddy, but I just wouldn't give you 6 mil a year.
     
  7. cover2

    cover2 I've grown old
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    Being an old defensive guy, I'd make it job 1 to significantly reduce (or flip) the scoring gap you mention ;), and not just against you (think back to my earlier comment about how important I think the defensive piece will be with Mullen)! All losses are bad, however. You wouldn't have to worry about paying me 6mil either; I'd take a little less. Glad you aren't a Bull with some pull :), we might still be looking and not laughing as hard as we are at UT.
     
  8. ltraz

    ltraz Well-Known Member

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    That scoring gap was mullen's this year. You may want him to care about D, but it didn't matter when they played the games. He had 8 years to make it a priority and didn't. And this was the year the D was improved from the absolute sh!t show he fielded the year before. So he went from pathetic to something you still would b find acceptable?

    If it was my call, we would probably have just finalized since two of my top guys were playing today. I would then donate the 3 mil per year I saved to gatorchatter so everyone would have lifetime memberships.
     
  9. Theologator

    Theologator Enchanter

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    If you had a choice between MSU and any one of the following: LSU, Bama, F$U, UF, A&M, AU, UGA, Texas or Ut - would you choose MSU?

    Maybe for family or coaching relationship reasons you’d pick MSU over Ole Miss, Ark, SC or Mizzou, but my gosh it must be tough to recruit a kid to the aptly named Starkville.

    So he’s mostly had leftovers. 3* guys are generally legit D1 and so competitive. But the deck is so stacked every time they play Bama, LSU, A&M etc.

    (Gator QBs historically tend to throw 4+ INTs there so don’t let that skew perceptions.)
     
  10. cover2

    cover2 I've grown old
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    Well, at least he was trending up when we got him :). And BTW, my scenario didn't have us playing three consecutive times in one season. I thought I was more clear for an analogy's purpose. Maybe not.

    Your top 2, I'm assuming, included Norvell. If so, despite his loss today I think he is a good offensive guy and coach overall. There seems, however, to be some problem in his background that has cooled some schools, including us, from pursuit. I have to guess that Frost might have been the other and he was who I really hoped we had a chance at. It became pretty obvious that Nebraska was where he was headed. If I'm on the wrong path, correct me please and explain who you would be finalizing. If not, I'm still interested to know how you pull off either Norvell or Frost.
     
  11. Theologator

    Theologator Enchanter

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    I live in metro Orlando & have a son at UCF so I’ve been watching UCF pretty closely. After seeing how this played out, including his post-game emotions, it looks like only Nebraska had the pull to pry him away. He’s made me a fan.

    But neither of those teams plays much defense. I hope UCF is well prepared for their bowl game and we get to see their best game against whichever Power 5 team they face.

    Memphis was a mirror of UCF & 1 play away from winning today. I’ve seen the same speculation about Norvell but no idea why Ut isn’t sleeping on his doorstep.
     
  12. ltraz

    ltraz Well-Known Member

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    I wasnt talking about 3 consecutive games either. I was using auburn, uga & bama from this year, bc i thought those were the teams that fit your recruiting analogy and werent having huge coaching issues (lsu).

    Frost was my original #1, but it's clear IMO he wasn't a serious option. I had criteria and that would determine interviews. Another that hit the criteria was Candle at Toledo. Inexperienced so how he answered certain questions at the interview (IE assistant hiring process, practicecsdchedule) wouild play a big role. Having a guy like SOS as part of the process would help.
     
  13. cover2

    cover2 I've grown old
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    Thanks. I wasn't sure what you meant, but your answer did not match the scenario I proposed. How we will do against those three (and similar opponents) remains to be seen. I'm just trying to look forward if our recruiting gets back to UF expectations.

    I don't know much about Candle, but he certainly put it on Akron. He would definitely be an upgrade to McElwain. Not sure if he's ready for a program like ours, but some would say the same of Frost.

    Bottom line is that you don't have confidence in Mullen and may never. I respect your opinion even though mine is different.
     
  14. ltraz

    ltraz Well-Known Member

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    I was trying to give examples of a team with the #27 recruiting class against teams with top-10 classes. Wouldn't expect a great coach to win, but would expect a better point differential. Obviously could only make it for the one side.

    Diddo regarding the opinions. Respect yours as much as anone's on the board and hope you're right.
     
  15. Swamp Donkey

    Swamp Donkey Shytter's Full!
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    He was never staying in the minor leagues.

    Why do you think he wasnt going? Because he said so? He also said he wasnt discussing contracts until after his championship game? But it was signed days ago.

    You Orlando Community College people are funny.
     
  16. UFHealthGator

    UFHealthGator Member

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    Incorrect. It has everything to do with it. To motivate a person to leave his current job to a new job, payment has to be a strong drive, and if the previous job was easier, it would take much more to pay to force them to make the move. We needed Mullen, at a time when demand for proven coaches is enormously high with all the vacancies, and supply of said coaches is diminished. UT would have probably paid about the same at least to get him. I think his market value is just right.


    You are not making any sense here. Sure Chip Kelly was not an SEC guy, but he had a tremendous winning record, which is why he was my first choice. But that is irrelevant since he did not want to come to UF. Out of the remaining coaches that were available to us, non of them had a clear advantage, but I do prefer to have a head coach with SEC experience. Tired of hiring coaches with "winning records" at weaker conferences.

    Didn't think I have to explain this, but this entire discussion is by definition conjecture. Guessing what market value of a football coach is not exactly newtonian physics.
     
  17. Theologator

    Theologator Enchanter

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    Where else did you hear rumor of serious interest? Almost everyone was interested in him.

    I’m a UF grad, ‘83, by the way. Our son is at the top of his class in “photonic science & engineering” and I don’t quite understand what he’s talking about.
     
  18. rogdochar

    rogdochar Senior Member

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    ... whaaa? UF has a School of Paparazzi? Just can't picture it?
    Joking aside, it's a mighty fine telling point Theodad that you didn't just say "my son" but included his Mom by saying our son. For some reason that made me feel my own parents' togetherness in raising me....
    [Aww the paparazzi, now there's a flash mob.]
     
  19. TheDouglas78

    TheDouglas78 Well-Known Member

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    So now we are Tennessee... Again has nothing to do with his market value. So again you are making an argument to pay someone more than their market value.... What has he done to be paid the 5th highest value in NCAA (now 6th highest). You have FAILED to answer that question.




    You said an SEC guy, Chip Kelly wasn't which removes most of your argument for overpaying Mullen. If you are tired of hiring coaches from "weaker conferences with winning records" then remove Spurrier in 89 and Meyer in 04 from your coaching search at those times.



    No it's not conjecture, it's market value and it's easy. What has Mullen accomplished to be the 6th highest coach in NCAA football. What? What you are saying he is here worth more in his abilities to coach than 124 other coaches currently coaching. Do you believe that is true?
     
  20. TheDouglas78

    TheDouglas78 Well-Known Member

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    Or we didnt' apparently even give Norvell a phone call if reports are right....

    Would you feel better with Mullen at 6/year or Norvell at 4/year?
     

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