Does UF management really care to be champions?

Swamp Donkey

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Interesting take. My problem with it is that the TV deals are through at least 2023. Bizarro is that the Big Ten pulled in more than the SEC recently...$440 mill to $375 mill. I am sure that will change but you can see the level of coaching hires has improved in the B10 vs our sad sack of guys.

Great perspective.
A lot of states have B10 required like in the second tier of cable channels, you know the one that is the real minimum package not the 19.99 one for grandmas that only have 12 channels.

Lotsa houses lotsa money.
 

GatorStud

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Turning focus to Academic Champions and ever higher GPA students.

The days of us Halloween Ball, roll into class Monday with sunshine eyes and all for the Gators stadium frenzy seems a dying breed. Glad I was there before all the out of this world credentialing. :grin:
 

InstiGATOR1

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I have a similar, but slightly different worry. Now before anyone hammers away at me - this is just a theory I put out for discussion. I’m not supporting or proposing anything here, I’m just saying “what if?”

Football, the game, is under attack. The whole CTE issue has created a cloud over the game, and rules that are being made to try to make the game safer are also watering down the game we all love.

Parents aren’t letting their kids play football. High schools are shutting down programs. There is an argument that says the game of football could be dying.

With that background, I could easily see someone looking at the overall future of athletics at UF (or anywhere) and thinking “Our primary revenue generator could be disappearing...what would our athletics programs need to look like in a world without football?”

If someone were asked that question, he might say that you would need to invest in other revenue-generating sports, trying to find ways for them to become self sustaining or hopefully figure out a way to generate a profit (Cue O’Dome upgrade and new Baseball stadium). He would possibly still invest in football, because he needs it’s revenue now, but he wouldn’t go “all in” like others have done.

Now imagine combining the above concerns with an administration that says “listen, we have become a top 10 academic institution in the country, and research money is coming into the school at a record pace. We might have needed football to be on the map and minds of kids in the past, but the kids we attract now don’t really care much about football. You boys have your games, but we want you squeaky clean... the schools integrity is more important than winning championships. You get people here that put that first”.

As the inimitable ox says......discuss.

I think the this is an interesting idea to ponder. I doubt that the UF UAA staff is thinking about this yet. I do think that this is something that could arise in the future.
 

rogdochar

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Firstly, I greatly appreciate your representative avatar, FNAG8R. I look forward to spotting it turned right-side up when our football program gets set right. :cool:

As to football outdoing all sports financially$, well CFB "live-viewers" are in the 80,000 to 100,00 range which outdoor stadiums invite. It would be interesting to compare UK's basketball TV-revenue to their football TV-revenue? Might help with thinking outside the box?

IDK what will happen if the attack on the violence of FB turns violent? To what ends? = Moms won't let their young sons play FB; the best young athletes get turned on to soccer, especially when there has been an ongoing world conspiracy to make soccer futball replace American football? I can see where the University of Madrid's soccer team draws 100,000 to their stadium.

I do not think our administration is diluting UF FB due to violent injury potential that shows up 45+ years after the fact. Today, there's an audience on Saturdays for 12 hours of CFB; at no point in the future do I see the mass-viewing public watching even 1 hour of documentary interview of pitiful brain-damaged ex-FB players.

The solution to UF's FB failures should follow standard procedures once Boosters/AD adhere to a standard and not sub-standard. I can see the reasoning calling for giving an HC a 5-year time-span ... but not a "3-year-learn-nothing" HC, who cannot show progress.
 

78

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We'll know after the next six games and based on what we hear or do not hear from above. There's likely to be 2-3 losses during that stretch, maybe more. That's substandard by any Florida administrator's perspective. The end of the season needs to be accompanied by some sort of statement about where we stand, supportive or not of Mac.
 

soflagator

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My problem with everyone who says "fire Nuss" or "fire all the assistants and start over" is that if he does that, and then next year its the same old stuff, then the excuse will be that he hasn't had enough time with the new people yet and its too early to draw conclusions. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. There is always an excuse for some of you.

I agree with GatorJ, the only way to force the UAA's hand is for the fans to loudly boo this pile of hot garbage. Boo and chant "Fire Mac" everytime he does something obviously boneheaded. That'll get attention real quick. Writing e-mails and praying the Bull Gators do something aint gonna get it done.

Totally agree on the OC change. Way too late for that, and McElwain will have to live or die by his decision there.

I'm somewhat on the fence about the "booing" "Fire Mac" talk at games, as of right now. If the UAA is seriously considering making a move at season's end, then so be it. But my concern is that he's getting 2018 regardless. If that's the case, I think the public shaming of him only further hinders a staff that already can't recruit very well. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that we keep McElwain to ensure a recruiting class. But if that decision is essentially made and out of our hands, I'd like to see us keep the current class together so that we at least have more talent next year, and/or for the next guy.
 

ThreatMatrix

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Well everyone has injuries in football. UTn has had several some big ones before they played UF. So while I agree that losing Harris was huge, it is part of the game. The suspensions are not and were a surprise, but I think reading that list one should conclude they are not as big a deal as some have made them out to be.

Yep. Injuries are part of the game. But we also have bad coaching/recruiting. So while our bad coaching/recruiting could prolly overcome the other teams we play with bad coaching/recruiting we can't also overcome the loss of the few good players that we have.
 

Chomper

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This is nothing new. For decades Vanderbilt has profited nicely from earnings of other SEC schools while being perennial doormats themselves. Their fan base and low game day attendance reflects their administration's lack of concern about winning championships. And now that television revenues continue to swell the coffers, the incentive to win is diminished even more. This is very close to the NFL model where for years, even mediocre teams have huge revenues from television. Football -- NCAA and NFL -- is swimming in so much money, win-loss records have been replaced by the dollar sign at many schools. Is UF one of those?
 

OcalaGator83

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I'm somewhat on the fence about the "booing" "Fire Mac" talk at games, as of right now. If the UAA is seriously considering making a move at season's end, then so be it. But my concern is that he's getting 2018 regardless. If that's the case, I think the public shaming of him only further hinders a staff that already can't recruit very well. To be clear, I'm not suggesting that we keep McElwain to ensure a recruiting class. But if that decision is essentially made and out of our hands, I'd like to see us keep the current class together so that we at least have more talent next year, and/or for the next guy.
That's fair and I feel somewhat the same, but in the end all we can know is what the administration says (or doesn't say) and what they do. So far they've given no indication they are at all upset by the state of affairs, they certainly haven't said so anywhere that I've seen, and they have given Mac a raise and an extension which, again, does not signal unhappiness. Given that, I think putting some "noise" in the system is the only way to get attention.
 

Swamp Donkey

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This is nothing new. For decades Vanderbilt has profited nicely from earnings of other SEC schools while being perennial doormats themselves. ... And now that television revenues continue to swell the coffers, the incentive to win is diminished even more. ... Is UF one of those?
Exactly my fear. Zero evidence that we are dedicated to winning. We are spending, but more on basketball and baseball than football, despite 90+% of the profit coming from football.

Despite small recent changes, a minimalistic IPF, three decades late, the noises are from the UAA that Butters needs to accept that he isnt getting what he wants. Designs for the also three decades late football operations building are laughable (and the subject of twitter and forum derision) as they try to shoehorn just enough into the tiny space beside the IPF.

Bad HC hires, horrible cheapskate Sunbelt-like asst coach hires (not Butters' fault), the hits go on and on.

Creyer was right. This is a broken program, broken all the way to the top.

I see nothing that indicates dedication to competing for championships.
 

Swamp Donkey

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Turning focus to Academic Champions and ever higher GPA students.

The days of us Halloween Ball, roll into class Monday with sunshine eyes and all for the Gators stadium frenzy seems a dying breed. Glad I was there before all the out of this world credentialing. :grin:
You cant say that.

The shyt on the field is responsible also and we have been one heaping, steaming POS.
 

TheSaintThing05

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We'll know after the next six games and based on what we hear or do not hear from above. There's likely to be 2-3 losses during that stretch, maybe more. That's substandard by any Florida administrator's perspective. The end of the season needs to be accompanied by some sort of statement about where we stand, supportive or not of Mac.

Most likely more. Hell, 2 will be coming before Halloween. USC is a toss up. I know Mizzou stinks but I would say thats a toss up as well. Winning out there is never a gimme. And id still take FSU over our guys. I know it'll be two bad teams going at it the Saturday after Thanksgiving, but when two bad teams play, I always go with the team with more talent. And they have much more talent than us, especially on D.
 

gator1946

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I have a similar, but slightly different worry. Now before anyone hammers away at me - this is just a theory I put out for discussion. I’m not supporting or proposing anything here, I’m just saying “what if?”

Football, the game, is under attack. The whole CTE issue has created a cloud over the game, and rules that are being made to try to make the game safer are also watering down the game we all love.

Parents aren’t letting their kids play football. High schools are shutting down programs. There is an argument that says the game of football could be dying.

With that background, I could easily see someone looking at the overall future of athletics at UF (or anywhere) and thinking “Our primary revenue generator could be disappearing...what would our athletics programs need to look like in a world without football?”

If someone were asked that question, he might say that you would need to invest in other revenue-generating sports, trying to find ways for them to become self sustaining or hopefully figure out a way to generate a profit (Cue O’Dome upgrade and new Baseball stadium). He would possibly still invest in football, because he needs it’s revenue now, but he wouldn’t go “all in” like others have done.

Now imagine combining the above concerns with an administration that says “listen, we have become a top 10 academic institution in the country, and research money is coming into the school at a record pace. We might have needed football to be on the map and minds of kids in the past, but the kids we attract now don’t really care much about football. You boys have your games, but we want you squeaky clean... the schools integrity is more important than winning championships. You get people here that put that first”.

As the inimitable ox says......discuss.

Yes to all of this.
 

AugustaGator

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Dooley has been on this some. While I like Dooley more than some here and listen to his pod cast, I think it is important to look at these 9 excuses:

1. Antonio Callaway, JR, WR: Certainly a loss of a big play maker and a legit excuse.
2. Jordan Scarlet, JR, RB: A good players, but arguably not any better than other RBs UF has. His lost has cost UF nothing and is no excuse.
3. Jordan Smith, RFR, DE: UF has great DE depth. No excuse.
4. Richerd Desir-Jones, RSoph, DT: He might have played, but he is no more than a rotation guy probably. Small excuse.
5. Keivonnis Davis, JR, DE: He was seemingly in the DE rotation, but again UF is fine at DE and DE depth.
6. Kadeem Telford, OL, FR: Dooley says he might have been in the rotation this year. I say losing a true frosh OL is not excuse for a coach.
7. James Houston, FR, LB: UF needs LB depth. UF is playing a walkon LB. Still this true frosh missed his SR year of high school with a torn ACL. I see his loss as little excuse.
8. Rick Wells, RFR, WR: The loss of Callaway and Cleveland's recent injury make this loss a little bigger. Still not much of an excuse to me.
9. Ventrel Miller, FR, LB: Another bit of missing LB depth. So a bit of an excuse to me.

So in football terms there are maybe 2/3 excuses here. Callaway was certainly a loss and I thought in his "contract" year he was likely to have a big year. The two LBs might be a loss as they could have provided depth like this years starters did last year. Still to me this hardly amounts to 9 excuses like many not just you have said.
IMO, we'd still be sucking. It's his mind set. He will not utilize nor develop these players.
 

OcalaGator83

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I put it to you all that if Nuss is not fired during the bye week and if HeeHaw is not put on notice to turn this around or else he's gone too at the end of the year, then you'll have your answer that the administration does not care to be champions of anything more than women's lacrosse.
 

rogdochar

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Here's the story I want:
1) Stricklin becomes an energized AD, driven to make our UF football program a beacon, guiding in excellence = the way it was when Spurrier was H.C.
2) Stricklin, first, contacts an HC of great potential that there's no restrictions on contact = UF ambassador Spurrier.
3) Stricklin signs Steve on to a plan where Steve can pick his own compatriot Co-HC... someone to do the HC-CEO activities that Steve hates to do or doesn't have the energy for at his decent age..
4) Of course, my story has coach Spurrier selecting Kerwin Bell as Co-HC.(Visualize a University of Florida recruiting video regaling SOS's Heisman run as a Gator. Next comes Coach Spurriers SEC-dominant teams, including Bell's QB heroics as another Gator. Next the video shows the recruit the Statues, then the markee of Stephen Spurrier Field. We would get inspired recruits to an inspired & results-driven program. No problem getting the top QB year after year.(remember Bell has gotten good results as a QB-coach.)
4) Imagine the brain roladex Spurrier has on worthy coaches OC, DC etc. to fill out our staff.

Well, that's my story. Let's hear competing stories involving other surely gettable HCs. I'm asking for positive stories of other HC-plans. The path does not involve tearing down either the Spurrier or the Bell choice. It should just involve the positive push for another route for UF's new HC and crew. UF needs a future that we don't yet have. That is the search at hand.
 

PastyStoole

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When I saw the title to this thread I ignored it for awhile, I just didn't want to engage in more gloomy outlook discussions. But Ox and Oxking are right, and I think it would make for a pretty good letter to the editor at the Sun and Alligator, for what it's worth.

Here is the reality: The UAA contributes a laughably small amount of money to the University itself. About $6 Million, which is a drop in the bucket compared to what gets added to the UF endowment every year through private donations. UF has a $2.0 BILLION endowment, (more than three times that of FSU) and the UF administration and board of trustees have a unified ambition to double or triple that very soon. The donors they are seeking are not necessarily people you'll find sitting in the football bleachers. Al Warrington has donated over $100 million to the UF endowment alone, mostly to the business school. Herbert Wertheim has donated $50 million to the endowment and it's been directed mostly to the engineering school. Believe it or not those guys aren't even big fish when compared to donors at other prestigious schools like Harvard and Stanford. These people are industry titans and inventors. They want their names on buildings and schools, not sports facilities.

So our last two presidents have been focused primarily on building the endowment through private donations. The football program is a distant afterthought. Their biggest concern when it comes to football is some potential scandal that could bring disrepute to the University. An academic scandal like the ones at FSU, North Carolina and Auburn would be a setback to them and a hindrance to their fund raising efforts. We are adding $400 Million + to the endowment every year now and that number is expected to grow substantially. As long as the football coach isn't disgracing the University through scandal and keeps winning 8-9 games a year, everything is hunky-dory to them.

In other words, we have more in common with Vanderbilt than we do Alabama or Auburn. That probably won't change any time soon.
 

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