Fire Mike White? Gators crushed like bugs at home to Alabama

Gator Fever

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We still have about 6 games vs RPI top 30 teams so by default our schedule stength will increase....RPI will as well if we win any of those games

My guess is we will be one of the last teams in if we win 20 games including SEC Tournament wins. A loss to LSU and I think we probably don't win 20 games.
 

FireFoley

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I'm interested to know what recommendations that posters here would make toward improving the offense with the personnel this team has. Specifically, what type of offense sets do you think could and should be executed in the half court set.

Thanks.

I talk about this on a weekly basis and it never changes. Someone mentioned already but the #1 thing I would do is much more off the ball action. Watch our offense and the 1st pass is either designed to get a shot or the player will put it on the deck and dribble drive. just watch all the other players when a guy drives and they are all just standing there hoping the dribbler gets double teamed and they can receive a pass and shoot. they don;t move to a better spot on the floor for a pass nor do they cut for a possible closer shot.

I played a lot and coached a lot back in the day and Mantra #1 is: The easiest guy to guard is the guy who is standing still. Well we have plenty of that. #2, The 2nd most dangerous player on offense is the screener. Sure the guy with the ball is most dangerous, but a guy who is moving around setting either on ball screens or off the ball screens often times can get lost and end up with a very easy shot. We have ZERO off the ball screening or off the ball action. We never ever stress the defense off the ball. Against a zone we will sometimes place a guy in the middle at the foul line trying to exploit the soft spot of the zone. Good plan, but a better plan would be to run what I call a cycle or a circle thru there. Flash a guy across the lane, if he does not receive a pass slide down to the block and see how the defense acts, then run a cutter right behind him across the foul line to see if the defense vacated following the initial player. You can do that with a 3 player cycle even when you swing the ball from side to side. My experience is that with more player movement off the ball, leads to better ball movement.

Someone mentioned that an old school motion offense or what I call pass and pick away motion would not work with our set of players. I do not disagree, but I think it might help create more body movement and perhaps put the ball in the hands of our drivers in better spots, like on the wings as opposed to the top of the key. Most of our dribble penetration seems to start at the top. Perhaps passing to a moving guy on the wing say at a 45 degree angle to the basket will allow for an easier pass to an opposite side baseline cutter or the opportunity to run a guy behind him from the short corner if he dribble drives and gets double teamed from the defender guarding the guy in the short corner..

Simply put, more body movement to see how the defense will react and see if more body movement puts more stress on the defense thus allowing for some defensive breakdowns. The team should see how often they breakdown on defense so perhaps they should try it on their opponents. The biggest compliment to another team or coach is to "steal" (borrow), things that they do. Perhaps Mike will try that.
 

lagator

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I think you are misunderstanding my comments or maybe we have different definitions of a "Top Program"

I define a program using metrics that go way beyond winning and losing to include silly things like attendance. We can NOT call ourselves a top program when we still cannot sellout our arena on a regular basis. I still marvel at how Billy was able to convince topflight players to come to UF when they visit and see 3-4k empty seats for 80% of the games.

You can:
Win a lot of games over an extended period of time
Have a great coach
Have great facilities
Have a rabid fanbase
Have lots of history and tradition
Have high expectations for your program

But you must have ALL of these attributes to be a top program. Many people confuse winning with top programs.

Here is an example to prove my position:

Miami football has won as many games in the last 30 years as anybody but NOBODY would suggest that Miami is a top football program because they have NONE of the other attributes I listed.

I stated that I believed that we were well on our way towards this goal when Billy was still here. I suggested that a new arena and a few more years and we would be there. Conversely, I stated that without Billy, the new arena doesn't matter because we don't have THE key metric (coaching) anymore.

Your response suggests that if I don't think we are a top program then I don't get it and I am the problem. Remember, I am the guy that had season tickets since 1981 so I think I have a very good handle on our program and how we stack up versus the rest of the country.

For me to slam our coach and state that he is keeping us from being a top program and then have you state that I don't hold him to a high enough standard is dysfunctional at best.
I see your point but it doesn't change the fact that you are definitely underselling our successes.

We are a top program defined by the fact that we have had elite level of success in the only part of the season that counts,the NCAA tournament. I was actually surprised myself when I looked up the stats. I knew we were very successful in the tournament but top 4 winning percentage and top 15 total NCAA tourny wins are pretty daunting numbers. This program is squarely on the top program map defined by past successes and national rep and expectations which is why we were ranked 7 to start the season.

I don't really give 2 sh*ts if we get a sell out because a bunch of old guys and families fill the nosebleed seats as long as the rowdy reptiles show up and make a lot of noise (and never ever do that dumbass dance again) and as long as we keep making the NCAA's and keep kicking azz once we get there.

It's not too late for White to get this back in the right direction but if we continue to collapse and especially if we miss the NCAA's after our preseason ranking and early season successes he will be on the hot seat, zero doubt about that.
 

MidwestChomp

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I talk about this on a weekly basis and it never changes. Someone mentioned already but the #1 thing I would do is much more off the ball action. Watch our offense and the 1st pass is either designed to get a shot or the player will put it on the deck and dribble drive. just watch all the other players when a guy drives and they are all just standing there hoping the dribbler gets double teamed and they can receive a pass and shoot. they don;t move to a better spot on the floor for a pass nor do they cut for a possible closer shot.

I played a lot and coached a lot back in the day and Mantra #1 is: The easiest guy to guard is the guy who is standing still. Well we have plenty of that. #2, The 2nd most dangerous player on offense is the screener. Sure the guy with the ball is most dangerous, but a guy who is moving around setting either on ball screens or off the ball screens often times can get lost and end up with a very easy shot. We have ZERO off the ball screening or off the ball action. We never ever stress the defense off the ball. Against a zone we will sometimes place a guy in the middle at the foul line trying to exploit the soft spot of the zone. Good plan, but a better plan would be to run what I call a cycle or a circle thru there. Flash a guy across the lane, if he does not receive a pass slide down to the block and see how the defense acts, then run a cutter right behind him across the foul line to see if the defense vacated following the initial player. You can do that with a 3 player cycle even when you swing the ball from side to side. My experience is that with more player movement off the ball, leads to better ball movement.

Someone mentioned that an old school motion offense or what I call pass and pick away motion would not work with our set of players. I do not disagree, but I think it might help create more body movement and perhaps put the ball in the hands of our drivers in better spots, like on the wings as opposed to the top of the key. Most of our dribble penetration seems to start at the top. Perhaps passing to a moving guy on the wing say at a 45 degree angle to the basket will allow for an easier pass to an opposite side baseline cutter or the opportunity to run a guy behind him from the short corner if he dribble drives and gets double teamed from the defender guarding the guy in the short corner..

Simply put, more body movement to see how the defense will react and see if more body movement puts more stress on the defense thus allowing for some defensive breakdowns. The team should see how often they breakdown on defense so perhaps they should try it on their opponents. The biggest compliment to another team or coach is to "steal" (borrow), things that they do. Perhaps Mike will try that.
Nice post. With this lineup I do wonder if the Jay Wright 4 out 1 in motion offense would work. However, we need a better scoring threat on the inside for that to flourish.
 

AugustaGator

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Something happened to the team chemistry after the Duke game. They haven't gelled or seemed like they liked one another since.
What I told my uncle before the game Saturday.
 

diehardg8r

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WTF are you talking about? Chiozza is 6th in the COUNTRY in assist turnover ratio. The COUNTRY. That's 351 teams' worth of guards, and he's 6th. He's far and away the MVP of the team, and we'd probably have a losing record without him. And you want to bench him?? GTFO! :lmao2:
Well he has 40 of those TO and if that ratio is supposed to be an indicator of how well a team is playing Oakland should be in the top 20. It's not his ratio that's the measure, it's when in the game they come. Lets stat out the loses and see what that ratio is. We'd have a losing record without Stone or Allen as well. Whats' you point? Mine is that we are in jeopardy of missing the tourney when we were a darkhouse in preseason to win it all. You think guard play isn't partly to blame for that? Stats don't tell the whole tale of the BS that we all can see with our own eyes.
 

rogdochar

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Go to answer the questions: Why are so many under-performing and why hasn't White figured it out?
Allen, Egor should each be scoring 6-8 ppg more and Gak & Hayes should be a better part of our offensive effort.
White & his coaches have had preseason and most of the season to work these guys into a better team.

Before his concussion, IMO Chase Johnson showed skills similar to "bigs" on those great North Carolina teams.
Can his season be red-shirted? Hell, does his equilibrium have the balance to be a basketball player anymore.
Watching well-coached teams play on Saturdays, by contrast, is frustrating. I think, "That's what we want team coordination with plays that stress their D into mistakes". ???
 

Egor's Assistant

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We need a big body. Personally I don’t think Egbunu is as good as some make him out to be but he is a legitimate post presence. He takes up space and provides strength. He can legitimately get you 8-12 points nightly and 8-10 rebounds a game. Although not a superstar he has to be respected on the block which creates space for shooters. I think a strong argument could be made that we would have been a much better team this year with Egbunu and Stokes on the block. My take is our lack of size...or maybe we should be looking at strength rather than size... .
All we need is an effective post presence on offense to open up the shooting of our little guys. We don't need Anthony Davis (though that would be nice). We just need a guy who is effective in the post and can rebound, create space around the basket. Egbunu's presence alone would help us, not to mention his nearly double-double averages from last season. The guy was a monster last season. Literally one of the best centers in SEC.
 

Egor's Assistant

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Go to answer the questions: Why are so many under-performing and why hasn't White figured it out?
Inconsistent guard play. We have a bunch of three and four star guards doing what three and four-star guards do... be inconsistent. That kid, Sexton, on the other hand was a Five-star can't miss prospect and he showed it. They beat us silly.
 

Egor's Assistant

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Before his concussion, IMO Chase Johnson showed skills similar to "bigs" on those great North Carolina teams.
Can his season be red-shirted? Hell, does his equilibrium have the balance to be a basketball player anymore.
Don't know much about this kid other than there was good buzz about his skill set before the season started. We never really saw much of his talent. You may be correct that he doesn't have good enough health to compete at this level. We'll see.
 

Egor's Assistant

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I assume that most people on this board are tired of my whining about this but I was a 36 year season ticket holder on the 3rd row in plain sight of the TV audience. When the renovation occurred, UF figured out how to screw the longtime boosters out of their seats in favor of the Bull Gators.
Thanks for that level of commitment. Awesome Gator! I still have pride for sitting through every single Don Devoe home game while a student even though we Sucked so bad. Fun times. I wish the UAA would reward Gators who support the basketball team. If we don't work on our fan support, we will never rise again to the plateaus of the Billy D Era.
 

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I think what is so frustrating to me for us offensively is how often we either dribble and shoot a long attempt, often not clean, just seconds into the shot clock or hold and dribble with no passes or little movement and then fire up whatever shot we can get as the shot clock runs out. Just looks like there's no rhyme or reason much of the time for what we are trying to accomplish. Occasionally, we get a drive and dish that leads to an open shot or a pick and roll, but nothing consistently. We started off the other evening with Stone getting some passes on the way to the hoop that were successful and then that stopped, never to be revisited.
Too many guards on our team have the "Green Light" to fire up a shot whenever they're "feeling" it. So we get these super quick, ill-advised shots. If we resist that temptation, then we run a couple ball screens and try to free up the ball-handler... If that doesn't work, with no one in the post to dump it off to, we're screwed late in the clock every time. I don't like the results of this style of play, but I blame it's failures on lack of an effective post presence.
 

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. As many have pointed out, we are suffering some because of our weak post play due to injuries, but tougher teams find a way to overcome to at least be more competitive. We should really find out what the team and the coaching is really made of with what they do from now until the regular season's end.
We'll find out what we're made of. Quiet, unassuming dudes never win anything says this cis-gender male. I honestly think everyone was waiting on Egbunu to bring the 'pain' and toughness we need to succeed. He's also a very vocal leader, another thing this team lacks.
 

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Chiozza is our best player right now... but how far can a 5'10 guard with a very weird and inconsistent release on his jumpshot really take you? He's not as big of a liability on defense as he once was, but he is still very easy to shoot over. If he is having an off night then he is just a warm body on the court.
Cheese isn't considered a prolific scorer, more of a facilitator. Imagine how many more assists per night Cheese could have if we had a post presence of any significance.

You're correct to say that it's easy to shoot over him, but he makes up for it by leading the team in steals. The kid can ball. He's not our problem. Our current style of play is easily game-planned away by opposing coaches. We have no balance.
 

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I think you are misunderstanding my comments or maybe we have different definitions of a "Top Program"

I define a program using metrics that go way beyond winning and losing to include silly things like attendance. We can NOT call ourselves a top program when we still cannot sellout our arena on a regular basis. I still marvel at how Billy was able to convince topflight players to come to UF when they visit and see 3-4k empty seats for 80% of the games.
.
This was incredible and turned UF temporarily into a Football and Basketball school. Billy had trouble in the last few years convincing top talent to come to UF. I think this ultimately led to his decision to leave. If you can't get four and five star players, you'll struggle to compete for the title. We all know this. Billy was a genius at maxing out his talent. Luckily for us, Noah and them boys developed from three and four star players into five-star lottery picks. Ultimately, I think the two "five-star" busts in Casey Hill and "Sky" Walker were the end of Billy's college career.
 

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Your response suggests that if I don't think we are a top program then I don't get it and I am the problem. Remember, I am the guy that had season tickets since 1981 so I think I have a very good handle on our program and how we stack up versus the rest of the country.
RESPECT :chomp::raysgirl:
 

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Their game-style is easy to take advantage of, and that's because White has built a disadvantageous team. Since White likes going small for the most game-minutes, then he must be practicing the small style the most time. Whereas, insist that all learn to use the players inside, Hayes, Gak, Stone, etc by practicing it the most. Doesn't a smart coach develop specific players' skills by pounding the lessons home in drill after drill. You don't much need coaching for jacking up 3-arch shots. Players can do that solo or loosely in shoot-around fun.

If White is the CEO UF basketball needs then he needs to hire a dynamic "big-man" coach.
But there's the rub: I think such dynamism would be cacophonous to White. It would jolt his transcendental soul. White cannot be practicing these guys on what they need. In-game there is no confident execution, there's too few options players look for, and there's no pragmatic respect for the shot-clock, for where your rebounders are, for spotting teammates' constant hustling-movement (of which they do too little). Seems White has built a mess.

Since all this is not fun to watch, White is not fun to have as coach.

1.) I heard Gak doesn't practice at all and needs surgery. He's playing through pain and injury because of our lack of centers. He's not very effective and can't practice. Not a good recipe.

2.) Losing sucks. Watching your team lose sucks. Coaching your team to another loss hurts big time. White is losing his edge and is as frustrated as we are. If he can't produce, he'll be replaced. But it sure seemed like a fun style of play at the PK80. What if we kept on winning and scoring like that? Can we keep him then?

We just need players. And got a bunch sitting around fixing to get ready to roll.
 

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