If Dusty Baker can be, then why not Butters?

[lagator]

I will take it for 20.

Sure, if we lose to UAB and Mac isn't back as HC for the first game next year for any reason you owe me 20, we lose to UAB and Mac is back next year, I owe you 20, we beat UAB, it's a push, correct?

 

[InstiGATOR1]

This may be an apples to oranges comparison or pro vs. college, but Dusty Baker was fired as manager of the Washington Nationals after 2 seasons. Both seasons saw the Nationals make the playoffs, yet not win a playoff series. So something showed the decision makers that something was not right, so they acted.

Butters is in his 3rd season, and the product looks very similar to, if not worse than the first 2 seasons. Those first 2 seasons each produced a 1st place finish in the SEC East and an appearance in the SECCG, which UF got waxed both times, regardless of score and almost no one thought they had a chance.

There is quite the fury out there and on this board that would like to see Butters canned and/or leave on his own accord. I admit I am #1 on that list that would have axed him after last season, seeing the overall flow of things.

But for discussion only, what is that different between the Nationals situation and our football program? The end of regular season results seem okay, but under the hood, it is clear that either the process is broken or there is no process at all.

Maybe a closer analogy is Gene Chizik. He was fired two years after WINNING the BCS Championship game. He had his first losing season at AU that year going 3-9, 0-8 in the SEC. It was his 4th year. Still not at bad precedent for firing McElwain if the powers at UF want to fire him.

 

[PaterLacerta]

Guys, I've been following the "Mac will never be great " arguments here and even commented on several. Here's my take. Barring something criminal or patently immoral, our Coach will be here for at least two more years. Having said that, the offensive Offensive Coordinator does not have that sort of guarantee. Judging by the 18 recruits and the '19 list of probables, this staff is turning the corner on recruiting. Mac will be held fully accountable when the team is his from top to bottom. Hoping for anything else is just going to give you ulcers.

Agreed. Unless he’s doodling Mrs. Wormer, the injuries and suspensions will guarantee him another season. That said, I don’t see how Mac can hold onto Nuss and Nord definitely needs to go.

 

[gatormandan]

Sure, if we lose to UAB and Mac isn't back as HC for the first game next year for any reason you owe me 20, we lose to UAB and Mac is back next year, I owe you 20, we beat UAB, it's a push, correct?

Im just bettting that Mac survives another year even if we lose that game. Period. Dont think the new AD has any balls.

 

[lagator]

Im just bettting that Mac survives another year even if we lose that game. Period. Dont think the new AD has any balls.

Me: I'll bet if he loses to UAB he isn't back next year.

You: I will take it for 20

It was pretty clear what you said you would take for 20, but it's all good. Bottom line is he'll either be gone or be back, and we can all agree we hope he is long gone.

 

[gatormandan]

Me: I'll bet if he loses to UAB he isn't back next year.

You: I will take it for 20

It was pretty clear what you said you would take for 20, but it's all good. Bottom line is he'll either be gone or be back, and we can all agree we hope he is long gone.

Sure thing, I am in.

 

[lagator]

Sure thing, I am in.

Alright man, but does this mean we are hoping we lose to UAB

I'll always hope we win every game, but would gladly pay a lot more than 20 to see MacNuss gone.

 

[jdh5484]

Sure, if we lose to UAB and Mac isn't back as HC for the first game next year for any reason you owe me 20, we lose to UAB and Mac is back next year, I owe you 20, we beat UAB, it's a push, correct?

How is this even being discussed.

 

[gatormandan]

How is this even being discussed.

Probably because this is where we are as a program.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

The reality is unless anything crazy goes on Mac will be here next year. I think there is a very slim chance he loses to UAB. While the team has lost some tough games, they also have the talent to beat a UAB even with bad coaching.

If he loses to UGA Muschamp can and probably will put the final nail in his coffin when he beats Mac.....It's closer than many want to believe.

 

[GatorTruth133]

Listen, unless we lose out, there is no way in hell Mac is gone next year. Now, he should fire Nuss and Nord and I think a refusal would help our case. As I've said in another thread, keeping Mac is all about optics

1. We know the two East Titles aren't what they being made of, but i believe most coaches not in the SEC would know how bad the East has truly been during those two years. They'd just see division titles.
2. We can agree that on paper this appears to be Mac's best class if it holds up. Firing him would destroy all of that. We can at least have this plethora of offensive talent for the next guy if we suck again next year (*with Nuss and Nord gone).
3. There's no way we fire Mac after 3 years when we gave Champ 4 when Mac has arguably been more successful (See East titles). Again, this is optics to potential coaches, not to us that pay attention deep into Florida football.
4. You have to make him fire Nuss and Nord as an opportunity to "right his ship". Outside coaches may not want to come to a place where the coach was denied the opportunity to make staff changes in an attempt to save his job.
5. The Chizik to Malzahn change isn't that great of an analogy. Auburn fans had given full credit of the NC to Malzahn and not Chizik (who sucked without Malzahn). They didn't bring in a coach unknown to the program, they brought in one who was familiar with the territory and part of the winning.
   
6. I do caveat all this with Nuss and Nord being gone. The reason the refusal to fire them would help our case is then you can build an argument that Mac chose his friends over the development and success of his athletes. Based on the production these two have shown, a refusal to fire would cover any bad optics the firing of Mac would have.
7. Do any firings after December 20. Get the EE's on campus to ensure part of the class

It's not that I don't want Mac gone, I'm more for giving him a chance without Nuss and Nord, but I do think that we need to be realistic about how this would look from the outside as well. Best case scenario- Mac does jump to Oregon State and we can make a play for Frost or Brohm without having to worry about optics.

 

[jdh5484]

Probably because this is where we are as a program.