Justin Fields decides to remain a leghumper

Discussion in 'Main Sports Forum' started by GatorJ, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. Caloosahatchee

    Caloosahatchee I voted for Law!

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    Thanks J.
     
    • Since65

      Since65 Senior Member

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      I'm still not following the line of thought in your last sentence. Sorry. I guess if you think 50 coaches (including assistant coaches) could have accomplished the same task then you're saying it really isn't that special.

      If I have followed your thoughts correctly over the past few days you seem to believe there is nothing special about Mullen, in any phase of the entire coaching spectrum, from recruiting to play calling, game planning, S&C, etc. He is absolutely pedestrian in every aspect of the profession. Would that be semi-accurate?
       
    • ltraz

      ltraz Well-Known Member

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      I think being in the top-50 coaches is impressive (since there are numerous assistants better than current HCs). We might be arguing semantics there.

      Yes, I think he's solid in all aspects most of the time, but elite in nothing. I haven't seen once person give me any reason to think otherwise. His scheme is beyond simple and has not faired well against equal or better teams consistently. He's made some ok coaching hires and some bad ones; mostly just sticking with his same guys. His recruiting was thought to be average at UF and he stayed with that at msu. Averaging #27 class at msu is solid, but I think everyone could name 15 guys that would do better. I think he's a very good playcaller as far as rhythm, but he runs an incredibly vanilla scheme with a small playbook so it's hard to say he's that great. These are the reasons you lose to South Alabama, Kentucky, Arkansas and byu in your 8th season when you don't have Dak Prescott to make up for all the limitations.
       
      • ltraz

        ltraz Well-Known Member

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        lol, you sure? You seem to think "we'll be fine with whoever the QB is", but then used an example of them definitely not being fine. Unless you don't care about having a good offense. Then you're right...we'll be fine.
         
      • rogdochar

        rogdochar Senior Member

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        So Traz and all, what HC do you want for us instead of Mullen (Kelly and Frost unattainable)?
        Seems we're left with hoping Mullen returning to locale of prior biggest success will rekindle his fires.?? By virtue of him having far better athletes at his orchestration.
         
        • SamIamGator92

          SamIamGator92 Gator - Jedi - Pumper
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          We tried but he turned us down after he heard about Chip Kelly and our lack of decent facilities.
           
          • Since65

            Since65 Senior Member

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            Thanks for the clarification. I trust Mullen will prove to be far more than just adequate. I think he is clearly an upgrade over the previous two guys.

            I have some connections to the MSU athletic program who I know to be knowledgable football minds. They know what the culture had been before and what Mullen accomplished. They would certainly view him as much better than average. I'm sure their opinions color my thinking and make me more optimistic than some Gators fans might have reason to be.
             
            • Theologator

              Theologator Enchanter

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              That sums it up for many of us. I wasn’t high on Kelly and once Frost was off the table I didn’t have a strong preference (except no way with Kiffin). I wasn’t pining for Mullen but have felt better about him from the moment he stepped off the plane.

              I’m taking the criticisms and cautions seriously because many of these guys are digging into relevant stats. All things considered and other options uncertain, I’m looking forward to seeing how this unfolds over the next few years. “Could” has to become “did” and in a terrifically difficult arena. There are lots of good coaches and good players trying very hard every day and only a few get trophies. UF has and should get more than most, but it’s really hard.

              It’s not just great coach + great players = championships. (Meyer & Saban may be the 2 exceptions to that. I think either of them would win in any reasonable context.) It’s being the right coach in the right place at the right time, recruiting and connecting with players who buy in and meld into a championship team.

              And even when all that is in place, Ahmad Black ripping an INT away from Joaquin Iglesias might make the difference. Michael Dyer’s knee not touching the ground makes the difference. Deshaun Watson getting the ball last makes the difference.

              There’s no formula. A coordinator with no HC experience can win (Stoops). A HC who did better than most at a lesser program can win (Miles). A position coach with no HC experience can win (Dabo). But the vast majority from any category don’t.

              Many of us think very highly of James Franklin and would have preferred him after Muschamp’s 4-8 season. His record at Vandy? 11-13 in conference against the weak SECe. But he took them to 3 consecutive bowls (they had never been to consecutive bowls) and a top-25 ranking. As a HC he was 3-15 vs. ranked teams coming into this year and tied with Mullen as a %. So yeah, he’s edged ahead at Penn St. this year while Mullen was still at MSU.

              I’m ready to see if Mullen’s can right this ship and get us back in the mix consistently.
               
              • ltraz

                ltraz Well-Known Member

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                But let' say UF had only had coaches like mac and muschamp before. Don't you think UF could then hire a 'solid' coach (top 50) and everyone would love him bc he was just better than what they knew? Won't you be thrilled about whatever culture he brings, bc it will be so much better than mac's even though it might not look as good as meyer's?
                 
              • ltraz

                ltraz Well-Known Member

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                Iv'e been honest that there were no homerun hires, bc there almost never are. I'd go down the list of young up-and-comers. Candle, norvell, brown, etc. Bigger risk, but what almost every elite program has done. You have to bring something special to be special.
                 
                • divits

                  divits A Muffin of the Studly Variety
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                  Meh. So basically the argument comes right back to where we were. Mullen isn't the best and not the worst pick. He's got a lot of positives and negatives just like those coaches you mentioned who could be picked apart in much the same way you like to pick apart Mullen but for different reasons. In the end, like any coaching pick, time will tell and no one will know for sure until foot hits ball in our first game next year.
                   
                  • Since65

                    Since65 Senior Member

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                    The MSU guys I interact with aren't living in a vacuum with no point of reference. They weren't just happy to have someone better than what was there before. They know football and feel Mullen was a very good coach....they were sorry to see him leave. Not just because he won more than he lost. I realize not everyone agrees with that perspective.
                     
                  • ltraz

                    ltraz Well-Known Member

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                    Not like those at all. That's why so many boosters and people that used to be connected to the program are pulling their support. Those other guys don't have a big resume that everyone outside of gainesville considers strong but not elite. They don't have a mountain of evident that they couldn't beat elite teams consistently. There's a reason he was there for 9 years and why we passed him up multiple times before he had a friend making the decision. Mullen is widely considered a high floor, low ceiling guy. The others are the opposite.
                     
                    • ltraz

                      ltraz Well-Known Member

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                      I don't understand what their point of reference was if they've never had a good one. Honest question, do they think that no coach could hardly ever beat ranked teams or are they just content with that bc they're msu? Were they not concerned about multiple losses they had more talent than in his 8th season?
                       
                    • GatorJ

                      GatorJ Hopeful
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                      So here’s the issue. They should have gone and paid to get Kelly. But I know that there were huge issues with his character which is why Fuchs flew up there.

                      Next in line would be Frost. He was not going to choose us over Nebraska. He was going home. Personally, I think that was a huge mistake by him and he’ll be gone in the next 5 to 7 years.


                      Next on that list would be Norvell. But there was something in his background that blew that up.

                      So who would be next?

                      Gundy? He has no defenses. Ever.

                      Leach? Probably worse record with a much weaker schedule. Also does not play defense.

                      Strong? Maybe. Maybe not. I don’t know if he is better than Mullen.

                      Campbell? Is he worth the risk? Fuentes? Is he worth the risk? Norvell seems to be miles better.

                      Who do you think we should have gotten?
                       
                      • ltraz

                        ltraz Well-Known Member

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                        I'd have Gundy there IF he was reasonable. I'm not sure he was. I understand he hasn't had much D, but he always has crazy O. It's hard to win with the new playoff without an explosive O, I think a D improves more with better overall talent than a plodding O and, as much as I hate to say it since I was a defensive player, UF football is offensive football and that's what sells.

                        I'd go hard pass on Gundy and Strong for the same reasons as mullen.

                        Then we go to more unproven guys that have potential. I'd avoid a coordinator, bc of our recent issues so that leaves about 4 young coaches that are having success. It's a risk, but the truth is every top program, but bama & osu basically, are there bc they took the risk. Schematically, not one single person has said how we'll beat good teams consistently unless you think mullen can stockpile talent like he had at UF in 08 and have meyer's help. There is a mountain of evidence that says he can't. Unless you are just ignoring all that, then you're just content to be richt's uga bc at least we won't be mac's UF.
                         
                      • GR8 2B

                        GR8 2B A Florida Gator
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                        Thanks, Theo, for setting out my position perfectly.
                         
                        • GatorJ

                          GatorJ Hopeful
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                          You have a solid analysis – but you didn’t name anybody that We should have gotten. Who could have we gotten that would have been better?

                          Maybe Gundy?
                           
                          • Durty South Swamp

                            Durty South Swamp doodley doodley doo!
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                            I want Jesus in heaven sitting at the right hand of God, but we dont need Jesus with a headset on our sideline. We need a take no prisoners, foot on the gas, crush every single team we face guy, and that aint Jesus. So yeah, I'd be pretty pissed. :lol:
                             
                            • ItsDookie87

                              ItsDookie87 ...it's best to let him finish
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                              What does it all mean?! :eek3:
                               

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