Not sure I’m happy about this...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by AugustaGator, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. AugustaGator

    AugustaGator Junior Member
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    This is politics 101.

    Yes ignorance and racism can be cured. I know several blacks who secretly like trump. They can't say so in public, but they do.


    My hang up is he is going down a path that leads to 'selling pardons'.
     
  2. 5-Star Finger

    5-Star Finger Dexterous Member
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    As an aside on this,
    I think this has already happened in the recent past as one poster as alluded to here; so in some respect that ship has unfortunately sailed.

    I'm not a guy that likes an overly strong executive branch, but the Federalists won the argument and I think the system in place unfortunately necessitates it. It's a common sentiment I hear that "no one should be above the law" but if you look at the POTUS as outlined in the Constitution, it's damn close. The pardon is an absolute power that was designed as a check on the power of the judiciary. The only limit outlined is he can't pardon is someone in a case of impeachment because that is Congress' power. (Article 2, Section 2, 1st clause)

    It's always been dicey and I think it will continue to be no matter who is in power. Our system has always only been as good as the people running it and I think we have seen more or less a steady decline for years. I will say that having a POTUS publicly talking about pardons and actively engaging in discussion about them is a good thing. Sunlight is always the best disinfectant politically speaking and having these conversations take place in the media I would think makes it much less likely than it typically would be to end up being a corrupt bargain.

    Problems like this were a big part of what led from my own journey from progressive through conservatism to a more classically liberal position. I don't like concentrated power at all, because human nature means it is going to be abused. When we created a stronger centralized government it turned out to do exactly what the anti-federalists warned it would do: find ways to make itself stronger and more corrupt. I'm not unhappy that people of the left are suddenly concerned about the extent of governmental power; even if it seems somewhat disingenuous after 8 years of silence. I just wish both the red and blue teams could get unhappy about it at the same time so we could get it fixed in an Article 5 convention.
     
  3. AugustaGator

    AugustaGator Junior Member
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    And here you have found why I do not like it...it's not being used as intended. I'd also say a check against legislature too. If being used to check their power, I do not mind at all. To erode or strengthen the exec I have heart burn.

    My concern is more flood gates opening up. It is my understanding the number of requests have shot up lately...not sure if those that have been approved have gone up (per capita). Need to research.
     
  4. 5-Star Finger

    5-Star Finger Dexterous Member
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    I guess my point here is that outside the framers it has always been a political tool. There's nothing new about what is happening, it's just people from the left are paying attention because it's Trump and the media is going to criticize and hate everything he does, as are leftist ideologues.
     
  5. TheDouglas78

    TheDouglas78 Well-Known Member

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    This is the point I get Augusta, at what point does perception become reality. This isn't a new issue, he is just being open about it.
     
  6. TLB

    TLB Just chillin'
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    I've never paid it much attention, but do recall getting irked with how it appeared to be handled under Bill Clinton. I suspect it has been used this way for a long time, but as I gain awareness of it I really am having a hard time with Obama's use of it to be honest. Not so much that I saw Obama as using it to give favors like I did with Clinton, but more for how he had opportunities to make it mean something and didn't - as evidenced by recent actions by Trump on people who could have been helped by Obama. Fair question, do I have an issue with Trump's use of it? :dunno: I don't see Trump making political play out of his actions (though they can generate some political play for him)...and I can shrug it off saying 'no worse than previous presidents' but that's not really what's in my heart...I don't care so much about that comparison.

    ===============

    Just ran a little search, as I was wondering about Trump's use of this Presidential privilege. CNN and WashPo both seem upset that he's using the power early compared to recent presidents who waited until later into their terms. To that, IDGAS. Trump's been in over a year, I don't feel he needs to wait any longer. Second issue they both raise is that Trump is using his pardons as political messaging...likely true, IMO, but that is the expected view of such 'news sources' and I also see how well it aligns with the Trump vs DeepState storyline (regardless of which side people are on).

    Overall, meh. I don't have an issue with what he's doing thus far. That is without comparing him to his predecessors.
     
  7. TheDouglas78

    TheDouglas78 Well-Known Member

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    TLB, my statement isn't that is a new issue or that this power hasn't potentially be abused in the past. It's the perception of it's use. The photo op he took with the West family and now the public display of use. Right not it is a meh... at what point does the perception become more than that.
     
  8. AugustaGator

    AugustaGator Junior Member
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    Agree to some point, but there is an aspect that he is taking it to another level which I am concern for the precedent it sets.
     
  9. AugustaGator

    AugustaGator Junior Member
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    I too had heartburn here. IMO, I understand we now have a heck of lot more requests, invalid ones IMO, because of it. I'm afraid trump will make it even worse.

    FYI, I do not use Obama as a yard stick.
     

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