Pool deck repair

G 2

Founding Member
Gator Great
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
5,844
10
Founding Member
I have some areas of my travertine pool deck which have sunk down. There is approximately 40 ft on one side and 20 feet on the other. The lowest depressed area is about a inch. I had a contractor come and take a look and he quoted me $8750. I asked him if that included a new deck.

Anyone know any decent paver people in Jacksonville?


20170217_160037 - Copy-min.jpg 20170217_160049 - Copy-min.jpg
 

bradgator2

Founding Member
Rioting
Lifetime Member
Jun 12, 2014
9,505
24,928
Founding Member
I'll fill in for coot:

What kind of roofing do you have? The little bits of asphalt shingle can cause this damage

What kind of grass do you have? The roots from St. Augustine can cause this damage

What is the weight of you wife? Because..... you know. But dont tell her

Were all the tiles cut with a diamond saw? If not, the rough edges will cause dirt accumulation and cause this problem.

Why do you have swings there?

The stone on the kitchen also looks like a terrible job.
 

crosscreekcooter

Founding Member
Cunning Linguist; RIP
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
11,023
12,243
Founding Member
I have some areas of my travertine pool deck which have sunk down. There is approximately 40 ft on one side and 20 feet on the other. The lowest depressed area is about a inch. I had a contractor come and take a look and he quoted me $8750. I asked him if that included a new deck.

Anyone know any decent paver people in Jacksonville?
You may be getting ahead of yourself.
First off, Im gonna make some assumptions and ask some questions.
The pool deck appears to be elevated and the entire pool and deck has a screened enclosure with no impervious roof covering.
The travertine tiles or pavers appear to be dry-laid rather than bedded in mortar.

What is the thickness of the travertine?
What is the construction matrix of the underlying support structure including sub-deck materials and edge restraint?
I cannot see the pool in the photos; is the pool shell an elevated concrete structure that bears on or in the earth below the deck and are there lateral pressures being exerted on the deck by the pool shell?
Let's start there.
 

Gatordiddy

Member in good standing
Lifetime Member
Jul 23, 2014
11,719
26,475
Whats so funny.
:bwahaha:

I love you coot. Not any of that gay sh!t or anything.

youre_mocking_me_arent_you.png
 

NVGator

Founding Member
Member
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
14,903
20,210
Founding Member
Are you aware that those swing seats have some sort of active fungus growing on them? I'm not calling it mold, cause that would be a bigger problem that would require some serious remediation, but I'd think you'd want it tested, since you have young children.
 

Concrete Helmet

Hook, Line, and Sinker
Lifetime Member
Jul 29, 2014
22,043
23,177
I have some areas of my travertine pool deck which have sunk down. There is approximately 40 ft on one side and 20 feet on the other. The lowest depressed area is about a inch. I had a contractor come and take a look and he quoted me $8750. I asked him if that included a new deck.

Anyone know any decent paver people in Jacksonville?


5124
5125
I'm no expert so I feel your frustration with getting stuff like this done. Sometimes it's almost easier living with it until you're ready to re do the whole deck and hope it's redone correctly the second time. To me it would seem that the whole thing would have to come up, be re leveled and then reset which would involve quite a bit of labor but again that's just my guess.
The pool deck at our house was redone about 10 years ago and they recovered the existing deck with a faux large stone finish which is unique looking but a total pain in the ass because they covered the drains so after it rains all the water from the lower level goes into the pool and it's impossible to pressure wash without obliterating the pool because all the dirty water drains into the pool. :banghead:
 

G 2

Founding Member
Gator Great
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
5,844
10
Founding Member
You may be getting ahead of yourself.
First off, Im gonna make some assumptions and ask some questions.
The pool deck appears to be elevated and the entire pool and deck has a screened enclosure with no impervious roof covering.
The travertine tiles or pavers appear to be dry-laid rather than bedded in mortar.

What is the thickness of the travertine?
What is the construction matrix of the underlying support structure including sub-deck materials and edge restraint?
I cannot see the pool in the photos; is the pool shell an elevated concrete structure that bears on or in the earth below the deck and are there lateral pressures being exerted on the deck by the pool shell?
Let's start there.

The travertine is 1.25" thick. It is dirt underneath. The edge travertine pieces are mortared in. The pool is an in ground concrete pool.

No idea the importance of all that but I'm not a contractor. I just looking for a good paver guy to come out and give me a decent quote.
 

G 2

Founding Member
Gator Great
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
5,844
10
Founding Member
I'm no expert so I feel your frustration with getting stuff like this done. Sometimes it's almost easier living with it until you're ready to re do the whole deck and hope it's redone correctly the second time. To me it would seem that the whole thing would have to come up, be re leveled and then reset which would involve quite a bit of labor but again that's just my guess.
The pool deck at our house was redone about 10 years ago and they recovered the existing deck with a faux large stone finish which is unique looking but a total pain in the ass because they covered the drains so after it rains all the water from the lower level goes into the pool and it's impossible to pressure wash without obliterating the pool because all the dirty water drains into the pool. :banghead:

We have a lot of parties at our house so I definitely want the deck in good shape come summer. I believe in the broken window theory so would never want things to pile up. The tiles definitely need to come up and the guy who came up talked taking it up 4 ft back to level it all out. It sounds like a lot of work and expense but the whole deck which is like 2200sq ft was leveled in two days and they laid all the travertine in 3 days. No idea why doing ~60ft x 4ft would cost almost $9k.

Luckily the deck was leveled really well so we never have water pooling and we have a hidden deck drain that works amazing. It handled all the rains of TS Colin and Hurricane Matthew with no problem.
 

LagoonGator68

Founding Member
mostly peaceful protester
Lifetime Member
Jun 12, 2014
7,115
6,162
Founding Member
We have a lot of parties at our house so I definitely want the deck in good shape come summer. I believe in the broken window theory so would never want things to pile up. The tiles definitely need to come up and the guy who came up talked taking it up 4 ft back to level it all out. It sounds like a lot of work and expense but the whole deck which is like 2200sq ft was leveled in two days and they laid all the travertine in 3 days. No idea why doing ~60ft x 4ft would cost almost $9k.

Luckily the deck was leveled really well so we never have water pooling and we have a hidden deck drain that works amazing. It handled all the rains of TS Colin and Hurricane Matthew with no problem.


Looks like the rains were a problem to me....or paver ants
 

crosscreekcooter

Founding Member
Cunning Linguist; RIP
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
11,023
12,243
Founding Member
The travertine is 1.25" thick. It is dirt underneath. The edge travertine pieces are mortared in. The pool is an in ground concrete pool.

No idea the importance of all that but I'm not a contractor. I just looking for a good paver guy to come out and give me a decent quote.

Here's the reason for the questions. A "paver guy" is only going to treat the surface condition and not the disease which appears to be poor design. I assumed from the photos that the deck was a typical elevated joist system with 5/4 pressure treated deck. I assumed that the pool enclosure has a screen roof which allows the rain to pass trough to the travertine surface. The rain that does not find its way to a drain or exits as surface flow sits on the travertine where it eventually passes through the joints to the bedding material (the dirt as you referenced it) which should be a sand or gravel fines. Before the travertine was set, the builder of the finished deck probably used a geo-textile fabric to allow him to stabilize the bed and place the tiles in a level manner. I could tell from the photos that the perimeter tiles were set in a more permanent manner in that they appeared stable in the photo, (hence my question about the method of restraint). I assumed all of your answers but wanted to verify. The reason for my first comment about getting ahead of yourself was due to the fact that this whole system you have can only be expected to be temporary forever due to its design. It may last a few years but water will always wash the bedding material out from under the tiles. Even if you were to install an impervious cover (roof) over the deck to prevent rainfall, if the deck joists and support posts are pressure treated as I am guessing, it is going to go south on you probably within 10 years due to wet or dry rot.
By the way, most tile setters charge anywhere from 2.50/5 sq ft to dry set pavers. he will also have to remove the existing first.
 

G 2

Founding Member
Gator Great
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
5,844
10
Founding Member
Here's the reason for the questions. A "paver guy" is only going to treat the surface condition and not the disease which appears to be poor design. I assumed from the photos that the deck was a typical elevated joist system with 5/4 pressure treated deck. I assumed that the pool enclosure has a screen roof which allows the rain to pass trough to the travertine surface. The rain that does not find its way to a drain or exits as surface flow sits on the travertine where it eventually passes through the joints to the bedding material (the dirt as you referenced it) which should be a sand or gravel fines. Before the travertine was set, the builder of the finished deck probably used a geo-textile fabric to allow him to stabilize the bed and place the tiles in a level manner. I could tell from the photos that the perimeter tiles were set in a more permanent manner in that they appeared stable in the photo, (hence my question about the method of restraint). I assumed all of your answers but wanted to verify. The reason for my first comment about getting ahead of yourself was due to the fact that this whole system you have can only be expected to be temporary forever due to its design. It may last a few years but water will always wash the bedding material out from under the tiles. Even if you were to install an impervious cover (roof) over the deck to prevent rainfall, if the deck joists and support posts are pressure treated as I am guessing, it is going to go south on you probably within 10 years due to wet or dry rot.
By the way, most tile setters charge anywhere from 2.50/5 sq ft to dry set pavers. he will also have to remove the existing first.

No deck. We're on an elevated lot with a 10ft retaining wall in the back. My question is why would we only have erosion in the one area? If it's simply from washing away why not sunken pavers all over?
 

URGatorBait

Founding Member
Ox's Former Favorite Poster
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
34,886
32,913
Founding Member
No deck. We're on an elevated lot with a 10ft retaining wall in the back. My question is why would we only have erosion in the one area? If it's simply from washing away why not sunken pavers all over?
Could be early signs of a sink hole, you should probably move :lol:
 

crosscreekcooter

Founding Member
Cunning Linguist; RIP
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
11,023
12,243
Founding Member
No deck. We're on an elevated lot with a 10ft retaining wall in the back. My question is why would we only have erosion in the one area? If it's simply from washing away why not sunken pavers all over?

My assumption about the supporting deck was wrong, I assumed your elevated pool deck was a wood structure rather than on-grade. That's why I asked about the design composition of the underlying support structure. On-grade paving failures like yours are often a result of the sub-surface bearing characteristic not achieving the desired and equal density and bearing capacity within the restrained area (it was not mechanically compacted equally). Thats why you are seeing settlement differential between the wall and in the adjacent paver field. In simple terms when they make the repairs, make sure they probe the failed subsurface areas with a steel rod before completing the repairs and compact the soft areas of the sub-base.

Or you could get lucky. Go get a 4 foot level, a screwdriver, rubber hammer and 4 or 5 bags of paver sand at the big box and just pull up those affected pavers, add some leveling sand under them and never have another problem. Simple!
 

Concrete Helmet

Hook, Line, and Sinker
Lifetime Member
Jul 29, 2014
22,043
23,177
My assumption about the supporting deck was wrong, I assumed your elevated pool deck was a wood structure rather than on-grade. That's why I asked about the design composition of the underlying support structure. On-grade paving failures like yours are often a result of the sub-surface bearing characteristic not achieving the desired and equal density and bearing capacity within the restrained area (it was not mechanically compacted equally). Thats why you are seeing settlement differential between the wall and in the adjacent paver field. In simple terms when they make the repairs, make sure they probe the failed subsurface areas with a steel rod before completing the repairs and compact the soft areas of the sub-base.

Or you could get lucky. Go get a 4 foot level, a screwdriver, rubber hammer and 4 or 5 bags of paver sand at the big box and just pull up those affected pavers, add some leveling sand under them and never have another problem. Simple!
What about chemical polyurethane grout that is used for soil stabilization in foundation and slab repair? I guess they probe the area and then inject the expandable grout which is water resistant into the affected areas.
I have someone looking at our eroding 175 foot seawall and they said it would fix the issue by using this process along with back filling and then re masoning the face of the wall.....of course they want 28K to do it :headslap:
 

crosscreekcooter

Founding Member
Cunning Linguist; RIP
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
11,023
12,243
Founding Member
What about chemical polyurethane grout that is used for soil stabilization in foundation and slab repair? I guess they probe the area and then inject the expandable grout which is water resistant into the affected areas.
I have someone looking at our eroding 175 foot seawall and they said it would fix the issue by using this process along with back filling and then re masoning the face of the wall.....of course they want 28K to do it :headslap:

Sometimes subsurface prep prior to paving will include the use of soil cement mixed into a subgrade rather than bear the cost of excavating and disposing of poor or expansive soils for roads. I've never been exposed to a polyurethane grout for soil stabilization. I know that cement based grouts are used in an injection process to stabilize foundations that have settled. I do have experience in repair of fine cracks in concrete foundation walls to prevent water intrusion through the fissure through the use of an injectable 2-part epoxy. This repair was developed to allow repairs from the finished interior wall side rather than excavating to the depth of the footing and drain system on the outside and having to also repair the waterproofing. The crack is more clearly exposed with a chisel and cleaned, then ports are tapped into the crack at specific intervals, and a hydraulic cement (the dark line) is applied into the enlarged crack between ports. Then the epoxy is forced into the ports with pressure from the gun and it runs along and fills the crack with the quick setting epoxy.
Heres an example of a similar repair
086d-2012.gif
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Help Users

You haven't joined any rooms.

    Staff online

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    31,642
    Messages
    1,615,498
    Members
    1,642
    Latest member
    fishermb