Sankey is anti-2nd Amendment?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by BMF, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. Okeechobee Joe

    Okeechobee Joe Lost Ball in High Grass
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    As a gun owner I am with you in support of the Second Amendment. But just as you can't use your constitutional right to free speech to incite a riot due to public safety, I am thinking that maybe a public university could ban guns in their stadiums due to safety concerns. If a gun was discharged in a stadium and an innocent bystander was hit, that would open the university up to liability issues would it not? If people in the stadium heard a gun go off and it caused a stampede for the exits and people were injured then that would also open the university up to potential lawsuits.

    Now I think I understand your viewpoint that you might need a gun to protect yourself or others from someone else who had a gun and was "illegally" sneaking a gun into a stadium to kill someone. But to stop this kind of person from entering the stadium should be the job of security personnel at the gate entrances, but I know people up to no good can still avoid security.

    I don't think the issue is so clear cut. Are their limits on the rights in the Bill of Rights or are they absolute? I am sure constitutional lawyers could argue this both ways. I don't know what the legal precedents are. Maybe one of our legal experts could chime in and give their opinion. I would like to hear it.
     
  2. alcoholica

    alcoholica Well-Known Member

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    I have no greater right than to protect my life.

    If this bill passes, I would think any liability wouldn't be held by the University. It's pretty hard to be at fault for something that legally you have no control over. Detroit would be better to provide some stats on this, but I think discharges are about nil when safely holstered.

    I don't know if it was you or someone else who had friends who drank and carried, but those are not law abiding citizens. I am not as strict about carrying my gun as others on here. I go to bars occasionally, and I can't carry there. I can't carry at work. I understand the work situation, because it's part of my work contract, but there is no reason I shouldn't be able to carry in a bar, provided I don't drink.

    This whole situation is a perfect example of the problems with this country. People think citizens can't be responsible and hold themselves accountable, so the government restricts and overreacts. The percentage of incidents that are created by CC holders is very low, in fact I haven't even heard of an incident anecdotally. I think if the bill passes, you'll probably see less drunk people at games, or certainly to a lesser degree, because people will either rather carry than drink and/or because people will realize that if they get drunk and do something stupid, like assault someone, they may catch worse than a beating.

    An armed society is a polite society.
     
  3. Spurdog98

    Spurdog98 Well-Known Member

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    WTF are you talking about? You do realize what the bill of rights was designed for? It wasn't a bunch of laws designed to tell people what they could do, it was what states and the fed couldn't take away. You can argue the point of whether it's a bad idea or not but fans aren't working for UF when they go to a football game.
     
  4. Okeechobee Joe

    Okeechobee Joe Lost Ball in High Grass
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    Fans aren't working for UF when they go to a football game. I know that. But UF still has an obligation to protect fans while fans are on UF property. Does UF not?
     
  5. gatormandan

    gatormandan The Donk Slayer!
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    I am an FFL (gun dealer) and have had a CC permit since Fl started issuing them in 86 I think. I am a certified pistol instructor and have taught several CC classes. Most of my family carry including my wife and we do it very responsibly. I believe in the right to carry anywhere I go and if I run into a "gun free" business I usually will go elsewhere. I would never advocate for drunks to carry a gun anywhere. That being said, a few bad apples shouldnt dictate what responsible citizens can and cant do.
     
    • Taco Gratis

      Taco Gratis Often wrong, never in doubt.

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      Can you open-carry and drink?
       
    • Spurdog98

      Spurdog98 Well-Known Member

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      Sure they do. As I said, I can entertain the argument either way as long as the reasoning is sound. But the safety argument can be made at any level. Cities could use it, bars, airports already do. Schools do, hows that working? Keeping people safe is always the argument I hear but mostly it keeps people defenseless IMO. My position is that drunks shouldn't be allowed in because they are often the ones startin shyt.
       
    • Okeechobee Joe

      Okeechobee Joe Lost Ball in High Grass
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      I totally understand your position and where you're coming from. I used the reference to the NFL players, as employees of NFL teams, being forced to stand by their employers as an example of a restriction placed on our first amendment right to free speech. Probably all of the rights enumerated in the first ten amendments have instances where they have been restricted in some cases including the right to bear arms. They are not all absolute. And the interpretation of them is not always black and white. That's why we have lawyers and judges.

      As far as your attitude about this issue goes, I like it.
       
    • gatormandan

      gatormandan The Donk Slayer!
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      Open carry is illegal in Fl.
       
    • alcoholica

      alcoholica Well-Known Member

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      Concerning your workplace, I think of it as I’m waiving my right rather than they are restricting me. I don’t have to work there. Just my perspective.

      Private businesses can restrict you by trespass laws, but they must ask you to leave.

      Courthouse restrictions I think are reasonable. They also do pretty thorough security to protect people.
       
    • Spurdog98

      Spurdog98 Well-Known Member

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      These restrictions became more prominent when we lost our independence and self reliance. Once we moved to a more industrialized nation and "went to work" as opposed to "going to the field" these restrictions started to manifest themselves and it will most certainly continue.
       
    • itsgr82bag8r

      itsgr82bag8r Political Forum Fire Starter
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      You can't legally drink & carry (open or concealed) a weapon at all, ever, anywhere. Pick one or the other, there's no legal way to do both.
       
    • Taco Gratis

      Taco Gratis Often wrong, never in doubt.

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      I believe there are states where you can open carry and drink as long as your BAC is below the legal limit.

      Wyoming comes to mind.
       
    • itsgr82bag8r

      itsgr82bag8r Political Forum Fire Starter
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      I believe the few states like that have laws that read that it’s illegal if “under the influence of alcohol”. Not that your BAC is above the DMV limits. So you’re really rolling the dice, and not something most any intelligent person carrying would do. Basically it could be argued that one sip puts you in violation. If I’m wrong, please post the specific law.
       
    • Swamp Donkey

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      That is generally true but not universally true. Some law enforcement agencies have rules that say you shall not carry a weapon while intoxicated, but does not restrict carrying it while imbibing in any amount. I'm not sure if EVERY state has a ban on having a firearm while drinking.
       
    • Detroitgator

      Detroitgator General Factotum
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      No. In Wyoming, you CAN open carry in a bar or place that generates more in alcohol sales than food, but you can’t drink a drop. You cannot concealed carry in those places
       
      • Taco Gratis

        Taco Gratis Often wrong, never in doubt.

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        Looking for that prohibition (open carry drinking). Can't find it.

        Also, if the logic in this forum is valid,
        Iowa has some wiggle room for consuming alcohol while carrying.
         
        #37 Taco Gratis, Feb 10, 2018
        Last edited: Feb 11, 2018

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