Should Foley be given carte blanche on the next hire?

[RocketCityGator]

There's one other perspective too. I read about a important employee who made a huge mistake which cost his company a couple of million dollars. He was a very promising employee outside of that, but he made a huge mistake. When his CEO came to talk to him, he assumed he was getting fired. The CEO basically said, "No way! You just learned a big lesson at my expense. I'm not going to let you go and have another company benefit from that!" I feel like Muschamp is a very promising head coach. He's made some mistakes and I believe he's learned some huge lessons at UF. He's also faced adversity that he didn't create. I'm not sure if he's learned enough and/or is worth retaining, but I think this year will reveal it.

The CEO must have seen something in the employee that told him he would learn from the mistake. I see nothing after four years that tells me Muschamp is learning. The offense is not getting better.

 

[oxrageous]

I would welcome apathy from some of you. Oh, and please don't sing, "In all kinds of weather.." Spare us. We all want things to get better.

 

[T REX]

From what I've seen in your posting, I'd agree that we're pretty dissimilar. Having said that, I'm not sure I could tell you. If I were to see enough failure that I would attribute to the coach, that I think he could have or should have prevented (as opposed to it being unavoidable or out of his control) and I don't see sufficiently acceptable growth in him, then I'd be convinced. I see a capable guy who is improving as a coach and whose staff continues to improve. Though I also see areas that he need to improve. As much as he says, "...and that's on me" in his pressers, I don't always agree. I do sometimes ...but not always. I'm not convinced that he's a good enough coach for UF, but I'm not convinced that he's not either.

There's one other perspective too. I read about a important employee who made a huge mistake which cost his company a couple of million dollars. He was a very promising employee outside of that, but he made a huge mistake. When his CEO came to talk to him, he assumed he was getting fired. The CEO basically said, "No way! You just learned a big lesson at my expense. I'm not going to let you go and have another company benefit from that!" I feel like Muschamp is a very promising head coach. He's made some mistakes and I believe he's learned some huge lessons at UF. He's also faced adversity that he didn't create. I'm not sure if he's learned enough and/or is worth retaining, but I think this year will reveal it.

I completely appreciate your opinion and well thought out post. You, of course, did not answer the question. You'd let him coach until there was nothing left of the program. I may have an itchy finger sometimes but I understand your analogy, having been taught that at the lowest of managerial levels. Never get rid of an asset you may need later. Fine. Unfortunately, this isn't some low level "employee". This is the CEO we are talking about. The company has underperformed massively and is in a nose dive. Correction is needed. Recruiting is now suffering because of him. That is something that will hurt the next guy, badly. Many of us can see it...the kids are staying away in droves. Why can't you bring yourself to admit it? What's stopping you from admitting the truth?

 

[78]

From what I've seen in your posting, I'd agree that we're pretty dissimilar. Having said that, I'm not sure I could tell you. If I were to see enough failure that I would attribute to the coach, that I think he could have or should have prevented (as opposed to it being unavoidable or out of his control) and I don't see sufficiently acceptable growth in him, then I'd be convinced. I see a capable guy who is improving as a coach and whose staff continues to improve. Though I also see areas that he need to improve. As much as he says, "...and that's on me" in his pressers, I don't always agree. I do sometimes ...but not always. I'm not convinced that he's a good enough coach for UF, but I'm not convinced that he's not either.

There's one other perspective too. I read about a important employee who made a huge mistake which cost his company a couple of million dollars. He was a very promising employee outside of that, but he made a huge mistake. When his CEO came to talk to him, he assumed he was getting fired. The CEO basically said, "No way! You just learned a big lesson at my expense. I'm not going to let you go and have another company benefit from that!" I feel like Muschamp is a very promising head coach. He's made some mistakes and I believe he's learned some huge lessons at UF. He's also faced adversity that he didn't create. I'm not sure if he's learned enough and/or is worth retaining, but I think this year will reveal it.

I think your analogy needs a whole heaping helping of -- what was your glossy word earlier? -- contextualization. Muschamp isn't the shipping clerk here, he's the CEO. After four years on the job, all the company has to show for his zig zagging efforts is earnings that are down a buck a share. That won't survive the next shareholders meeting.

 

[EuroGator]

I completely appreciate your opinion and well thought out post. You, of course, did not answer the question. You'd let him coach until there was nothing left of the program. I may have an itchy finger sometimes but I understand your analogy, having been taught that at the lowest of managerial levels. Never get rid of an asset you may need later. Fine. Unfortunately, this isn't some low level "employee". This is the CEO we are talking about. The company has underperformed massively and is in a nose dive. Correction is needed. Recruiting is now suffering because of him. That is something that will hurt the next guy, badly. Many of us can see it...the kids are staying away in droves. Why can't you bring yourself to admit it? What's stopping you from admitting the truth?

Well, thanks for being civil. That's not always a given on message boards.

The company has underperformed massively and is in a nose dive.

This season isn't lost. We've lost two games. One to Alabama, to whom we were heavy underdogs, and a very close game that we really should have won to LSU. In Meyer's last year we were 8-5 (4-4 SEC). We all know that Muschamp has had two terrible years and a successful year that wasn't any fun because we squeaked out a bunch or wins. UF is still capable of winning the SEC East and the SEC (though I admit SEC Champs is very unlikely). I can imagine winning all but 1 or 2 more this year, though I understand others who can't. If the Gators win 9 or 10 this year, which I think is possible, I wouldn't agree that the program has taken a nose-dive.

Recruiting is now suffering because of him.

I actually believe that many very highly rated recruits are waiting to see what happens ...like I am. ...and like Foley is. Like me, they haven't closed the door on the possibility that Muschamp and the Gators can show significant improvement and change on the offensive side of the ball.

What's stopping you from admitting the truth?

I think you mean to say, "What's stopping you from accepting my version the truth? ...my opinion as truth?" I don't share your opinion and refuse to accept that your perspective is "the truth."

I tried to answer your question and I guess it comes down to this. I am less certain of how this is going to turn out than many here (including yourself). If I had to predict his odds at success or failure, I'd assign a larger margin for error. My bell curve is still a lot flatter than others'. I'm not convinced he'll be successful here, but I'm also not convinced that he won't be. I must score pretty high in Myers-Briggs' "perceiving" with this.

 

[ufgator812]

This board tires me.

I read all of the discontent. I see a lack of contextualization. I am clearly composed differently than many, if not most, of the posters here. Though I'm not a strong contributor, I read / lurk on this board every day. Perhaps I need to make myself scarce around here until things turn around 'cause it's hard for me to read all of the definitive, negative comments about our AD, head coach, and QB. ...and most of you certainly don't want to hear what I would say about these subjects or in response to most of these comments, name calling, and other manifestations of "fan-hood."

Perhaps I should say it this simply. I have confidence in Foley. I'm not convinced that Muschamp is a failure yet. I don't think Driskel is the long-term solution, though he might need to play enough to smoothly transition to Treon. I know I'm in the minority, but that, in itself, doesn't prove who's right or wrong.

Regardless, reading this board is beginning to affect me the way Drake describes Muschamp's pressers. Sheesh is right...

Perhaps you'd like to hold hands and sing kumbaya? You should feel right at home in Europe.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

I feel like Muschamp is a very promising head coach. He's made some mistakes and I believe he's learned some huge lessons at UF. He's also faced adversity that he didn't create. I'm not sure if he's learned enough and/or is worth retaining, but I think this year will reveal it.

I did, too. When he was hired. I figured he'd give us a solid defense every year and all we would need to do is find a decent to good OC and be set.

Now I see that he's just another run-it-up-the-middle-and-hope-to-be-close-enough-at-the-end-of-the-game-to-kick-a-game-winning-FG coaches. I have no use for those. They end up in the MAC or the Big 10.

His defense is inconsistent. His offense is abysmal. Player development is poor. He's fixated on playing the TEs, WRs, and backs that block the best, and generally upperclassmen.

His recruiting is haphazard and strategically poor. Frankly, given that he's at the flagship university in the state with the most talent, it's embarrassing that he can't finish in the top 5 with the top talent WITHIN THE STATE even. He's set to finish behind Kintucky in recruiting for the second straight year. We may not even be in the top 10 within the SEC.

I struggle to think of any redeeming quality. Maybe you can enlighten me as to what you are seeing.

 

[EuroGator]

[QUOTE='78;n79119]


I think your analogy needs a whole heaping helping of -- what was your glossy word earlier? -- contextualization. Muschamp isn't the shipping clerk here, he's the CEO. After four years on the job, all the company has to show for his zig zagging efforts is earnings that are down a buck a share. That won't survive the next shareholders meeting.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, you're probably right. Then again, unless you have some inside information, you're just guessing too. ;)

 

[EuroGator]

Perhaps you'd like to hold hands and sing kumbaya? You should feel right at home in Europe.

That would make me feel better. Do you play the guitar? I'll start the campfire!

 

[GatorJ]

I completely appreciate your opinion and well thought out post. You, of course, did not answer the question. You'd let him coach until there was nothing left of the program. I may have an itchy finger sometimes but I understand your analogy, having been taught that at the lowest of managerial levels. Never get rid of an asset you may need later. Fine. Unfortunately, this isn't some low level "employee". This is the CEO we are talking about. The company has underperformed massively and is in a nose dive. Correction is needed. Recruiting is now suffering because of him. That is something that will hurt the next guy, badly. Many of us can see it...the kids are staying away in droves. Why can't you bring yourself to admit it? What's stopping you from admitting the truth?

Great post.

 

[GatorJ]

I did, too. When he was hired. I figured he'd give us a solid defense every year and all we would need to do is find a decent to good OC and be set.

Now I see that he's just another run-it-up-the-middle-and-hope-to-be-close-enough-at-the-end-of-the-game-to-kick-a-game-winning-FG coaches. I have no use for those. They end up in the MAC or the Big 10.

His defense is inconsistent. His offense is abysmal. Player development is poor. He's fixated on playing the TEs, WRs, and backs that block the best, and generally upperclassmen.

His recruiting is haphazard and strategically poor. Frankly, given that he's at the flagship university in the state with the most talent, it's embarrassing that he can't finish in the top 5 WITHIN THE STATE even. He's set to finish behind Kintucky in recruiting for the second straight year. We may not even be in the top 10 within the SEC.

I struggle to think of any redeeming quality. Maybe you can enlighten me as to what you are seeing.

Great post. If you're not a 5 star recruit under Muschamp, you're serviceable at best. Just no development. Why are his assistant coaches so effin mediocre?

Can we all agree that Leak as a WR coach has been a failure. Maybe as a QB coach. But a WR coach?

 

[Gatorious]

There are protesting WM opportunities below. Make a scene.
Maybe a persistent student or intrepid reporter can get the candidate/new pres to go on record/comment on their inclination.

The ITINERARY:

Monday, October 13, 2014, and expect it to end on Wednesday, October 15th:

• Day 1: The search committee reviews every application and decides whom to interview in Gainesville, based on their qualifications under the search criteria.
• Day 2: The search committee interviews those applicants invited to Gainesville; determines those who are most highly qualified under the search criteria; and refers them to the Board of Trustees for interviews.
• Part Day 2/Day 3: Each finalist appears at a campus/community assembly to meet students, staff and other interested parties, as well as a separate faculty assembly. These assemblies will be open on campus and covered by closed-circuit TV at various locales around campus and around the state of Florida. (These assemblies will be accessible to the campus community and Florida stakeholders but will not be accessible to the home campuses of the finalists outside of Florida.)
• Day 3: The Board of Trustees interviews each finalist and elects the next UF president. The president-elect is then ratified by the Board of Governors at its next meeting.

The questions to be asked at the campus/community and faculty assemblies will be derived from the questions developed during the 2012 searches as well as recent public input. Also, the faculty senate chair is working with the faculty councils and deans to arrive at the questions for the faculty assemblies. Of the more than 100 stakeholder comments , the emerging themes of highest interest concerned the breadth of UF and a balance in various aspects of its mission; the contributions of UF’s land grant mission; UF’s research, scholarship and impact locally, in the state, nationally and internationally; and a commitment to broadly defined diversity, free expression and multi-cultural experience. Information on the assemblies will be posted on the search website.
I will provide frequent updates, and you can also follow along at www.presidentsearch.ufl.edu. Public notices of the search committee meetings, interviews and assemblies will be posted on the website.
Thank you for your dedication to University of Florida


THE FINALISTS:
After reviewing a pool of 15 applicants, the search committee has identified the following candidates to meet with the committee Tuesday in Gainesville:

• Dr. W. Kent Fuchs, Provost, Cornell University
• Dr. David W. McLaughlin, Provost, New York University
• Dr. Sibrandes Poppema, President, University of Groningen, The Netherlands

Before meeting with the Board of Trustees on Wednesday, the finalists will attend faculty and campus/community assemblies beginning Tuesday at 5 p.m. The locations, times and closed-circuit viewing areas for the assemblies are posted at presidentsearch.ufl.edu/president-selection/assemblies.
Following Wednesday’s finalist interviews, the Board of Trustees will name the president-elect, to be announced at a press conference later that day. For the latest developments, please visit presidentsearch.ufl.edu.
---

 

[ufgator812]

One last thing. When I attended Florida, the premier programs were: Alabama, USC, Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Michigan, OSU, Miami, Nebraska, Criminoles, and Florida. I am scared that we are becoming Nebraska. If you want to depress yourself, lookup our rankings from 2000-2014. For every year except the last 4 we have been in the top 15. That is why people are freaking out.

Most of us get it. Some though, are worried about lacrosse.

 

[t-gator]

Great post. If you're not a 5 star recruit under Muschamp, you're serviceable at best. Just no development. Why are his assistant coaches so effin mediocre?

Can we all agree that Leak as a WR coach has been a failure. Maybe as a QB coach. But a WR coach?

In his defense he was kinda thrown to the wolves. He's never coached receivers before and he's never worked with roper. Most guys work themselves up the latter while working in their particular system. Joker Phillips getting in trouble hurt us more than I expected.

 

[T REX]

Well, thanks for being civil. That's not always a given on message boards.


This season isn't lost. We've lost two games. One to Alabama, to whom we were heavy underdogs, and a very close game that we really should have won to LSU. In Meyer's last year we were 8-5 (4-4 SEC). We all know that Muschamp has had two terrible years and a successful year that wasn't any fun because we squeaked out a bunch or wins. UF is still capable of winning the SEC East and the SEC (though I admit SEC Champs is very unlikely). I can imagine winning all but 1 or 2 more this year, though I understand others who can't. If the Gators win 9 or 10 this year, which I think is possible, I wouldn't agree that the program has taken a nose-dive.


I actually believe that many very highly rated recruits are waiting to see what happens ...like I am. ...and like Foley is. Like me, they haven't closed the door on the possibility that Muschamp and the Gators can show significant improvement and change on the offensive side of the ball.


I think you mean to say, "What's stopping you from accepting my version the truth? ...my opinion as truth?" I don't share your opinion and refuse to accept that your perspective is "the truth."

I tried to answer your question and I guess it comes down to this. I am less certain of how this is going to turn out than many here (including yourself). If I had to predict his odds at success or failure, I'd assign a larger margin for error. My bell curve is still a lot flatter than others'. I'm not convinced he'll be successful here, but I'm also not convinced that he won't be. I must score pretty high in Myers-Briggs' "perceiving" with this.

Again, thank you for the well thought out post. Here's the issue...your perception is NOT reality. You are probably curious what that "reality" means, right? No problem. In the real observable universe, Muschamp is a sub-par SEC coach without the necessary skills needed to be highly successful SEC coach. You used a great word...CONTEXT. This means using not just won-loss record but all the available data. 7-6, 11-2(outlier), 4-8(outlier), 3-2(7-4 most likley)...classic regression to the mean. Losses to UGA and FSU translates to a 1-7 record vs our biggest rivals(UT is not considered a rival like UGA or FSU). Recruiting is now in the toilet. He was falling behind last year.

Should I get started on the offense and defense? Both have REGRESSED. He's average at best. The results bear that out. Your bell curve should be telling you all of this. You are hoping for another 11-2 season when some of us saw it wasn't REAL. Yeah, it is in the books but the chances of repeating that were slim to none based on the make-up of the season. Blocked punts, awful offense, etc...no way any team could depend on the same occurrences to help get to that 11-2 record. Guess what? Without those same lucky breaks? And a few bad ones? 4-8...wow. The time to cut the cord was last year. We missed that boat. Damn.

So, we wait...and wait...all the while our brand is suffering, recruits wavering and potential coaches given extensions. I say to you...let it go..it is okay to admit it. Time to start the healing process.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I feel like Muschamp is a very promising head coach. He's made some mistakes and I believe he's learned some huge lessons at UF. He's also faced adversity that he didn't create. I'm not sure if he's learned enough and/or is worth retaining, but I think this year will reveal it.

I did, too. When he was hired. I figured he'd give us a solid defense every year and all we would need to do is find a decent to good OC and be set. Now I see that he's just another run-it-up-the-middle-and-hope-to-be-close-enough-at-the-end-of-the-game-to-kick-a-game-winning-FG coaches. I have no use for those. They end up in the MAC or the Big 10. His defense is inconsistent. His offense is abysmal. Player development is poor. He's fixated on playing the TEs, WRs, and backs that block the best, and generally upperclassmen. His recruiting is haphazard and strategically poor. Frankly, given that he's at the flagship university in the state with the most talent, it's embarrassing that he can't finish in the top 5 WITHIN THE STATE even. He's set to finish behind Kintucky in recruiting for the second straight year. We may not even be in the top 10 within the SEC. I struggle to think of any redeeming quality. Maybe you can enlighten me as to what you are seeing.

Inaccurate post is inaccurate

 

[gardnerwebbgator]

The candidate from Cornell is the best, and we can have fun with that last name too.

 

[oxrageous]

Inaccurate post is inaccurate

Which part?