So where are the deficiencies in the 2018 football team?

[InstiGATOR1]

If we win 10, we will have had a competent offense. So, yes.

How soon they forget. It was just 3 and 6 seasons back that UF won 10+ with terrible offenses and it very likely would have been 2, 3 and 6 seasons back expect for one storm cancelled game.

 

[MissouriGator]

How soon they forget. It was just 3 and 6 seasons back that UF won 10+ with terrible offenses and it very likely would have been 2, 3 and 6 seasons back expect for one storm cancelled game.

Our defense is nothing like 2012. We'll need a competent offense to win 8 this year.

 

[SeabeeGator]

This thread is ridiculous. It’s blindingly obvious what the OP is doing: setting up a no-win scenario for a coach he clearly thinks was wrongly hired. His premise: any good coach could win 10 games with this roster and this easy schedule... but he also states later that if Mullen does win 10, it doesn’t mean he’s good because the roster is talented and the schedule is easy. Dumb.

First, OL is atrocious. If you look at recruit rankings of projected starters, they are in the bottom third of the conference... AND they’ve had terrible coaches developing them. How can you expect them to be competent after one offseason with POTENTIALLY good coaching?

Second, LB is a dumpster fire.... at one of the most important positions in a 3-4 scheme. Safety isn’t much better.

Third, you say don’t discuss QBs but that’s insane - it’s the most important position and will likely undermine any chance of winning 10 games. You can’t just dismiss that part of the argument because it’s inconvenient for your narrative.

Finally, you might have a valid point about this roster and this schedule if these guys had good coaching and development for the last 3 or 4 years but they haven’t. They are installing completely different schemes on both sides of the ball AND revamping the S&C program. Winning 8 games this year with those VERY REAL constraints would be very impressive. Give Mullen a chance - don’t set impossibly stupid standards that you will still undermine if they are met.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

This thread is ridiculous. It’s blindingly obvious what the OP is doing: setting up a no-win scenario for a coach he clearly thinks was wrongly hired. His premise: any good coach could win 10 games with this roster and this easy schedule... but he also states later that if Mullen does win 10, it doesn’t mean he’s good because the roster is talented and the schedule is easy. Dumb.

First, OL is atrocious. If you look at recruit rankings of projected starters, they are in the bottom third of the conference... AND they’ve had terrible coaches developing them. How can you expect them to be competent after one offseason with POTENTIALLY good coaching?

Second, LB is a dumpster fire.... at one of the most important positions in a 3-4 scheme. Safety isn’t much better.

Third, you say don’t discuss QBs but that’s insane - it’s the most important position and will likely undermine any chance of winning 10 games. You can’t just dismiss that part of the argument because it’s inconvenient for your narrative.

Finally, you might have a valid point about this roster and this schedule if these guys had good coaching and development for the last 3 or 4 years but they haven’t. They are installing completely different schemes on both sides of the ball AND revamping the S&C program. Winning 8 games this year with those VERY REAL constraints would be very impressive. Give Mullen a chance - don’t set impossibly stupid standards that you will still undermine if they are met.

1. I do not think Mullen was wrongly hired. He was not my choice for the job, but he was hired by Foley/Strickland and they are the people with the authority to make such a hire.

2. Thus I did not set up Mullen in a no win situation. If anyone did, Mullen/Strickland/Foley did. I merely looked at the schedule and ticked off the wins I thought UF should get with good not great coaching.

3. You mention OL and LB. That is the type of discussion I was trying to get going. My purpose for this thread was to get people to give their views on the roster. The reason I started it was when I say that a good coach should win 10 games against this schedule, lots of people say not with this roster not with standing the 4 and 5 year recruiting rankings that say UF has recruited better than many of its opponents on this years schedule.

4. I said I did not want to hear about QB because that topic had been discussed ad nauseam here and I was not looking for repeats of the easy answer.

5. You raise an interesting point about strength and conditioning, but that in fact can be changed a great deal in one off season, if it was even a problem.

6. We have seen new schemes installed prior to this in one off season. UF went from scoring 23.6 points per game in 1989 to 33.7 points per game in 1990 while switching from an Emmitt Smith running offense to a Spurrier offence. So it can be done.

7. Let's try a counter factual here, what if UF had hired Spurrier this year. Would you be saying the talent was not there to win 9 games against this schedule?

8. I don't set the standards at UF. I am just one fan with one fan's opinion. As you can tell from above, I remember Spurrier being hired. I know that going 9-2 his first year did not make us all assume he would have the career at UF that he had. I know even two and three years there was uncertainty if Spurrier would do what he was doing every year for a long period of time. Mullen as any coach would be is of course in the same boat. I think any good coach should win 10 games against this schedule. The most I could accomplish by stating this opinion is to help some people buying into fool's gold if Mullen wins 10 games this year but turns out not to be the right guy. I probably will not even impact that. Heck right now there is a guy on another thread who bought into the idea that Muschamp had a good season one year at UF when it took a miracle blocked punt to beat U-La-La and UF scraped by againt several other bad teams. So I do not think my opinion affect fans much at all.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

tldr

 

[Gator Fever]

1. I do not think Mullen was wrongly hired. He was not my choice for the job, but he was hired by Foley/Strickland and they are the people with the authority to make such a hire.

2. Thus I did not set up Mullen in a no win situation. If anyone did, Mullen/Strickland/Foley did. I merely looked at the schedule and ticked off the wins I thought UF should get with good not great coaching.

3. You mention OL and LB. That is the type of discussion I was trying to get going. My purpose for this thread was to get people to give their views on the roster. The reason I started it was when I say that a good coach should win 10 games against this schedule, lots of people say not with this roster not with standing the 4 and 5 year recruiting rankings that say UF has recruited better than many of its opponents on this years schedule.

4. I said I did not want to hear about QB because that topic had been discussed ad nauseam here and I was not looking for repeats of the easy answer.

5. You raise an interesting point about strength and conditioning, but that in fact can be changed a great deal in one off season, if it was even a problem.

6. We have seen new schemes installed prior to this in one off season. UF went from scoring 23.6 points per game in 1989 to 33.7 points per game in 1990 while switching from an Emmitt Smith running offense to a Spurrier offence. So it can be done.

7. Let's try a counter factual here, what if UF had hired Spurrier this year. Would you be saying the talent was not their to win 9 games against this schedule?

8. I don't set the standards at UF. I am just one fan with one fan's opinion. As you can tell from above, I remember Spurrier being hired. I know that going 9-2 his first year did not make us all assume he would have the career at UF that he had. I know even two and three years there was uncertainty if Spurrier would do what he was doing every year for a long period of time. Mullen as any coach would be is of course in the same boat. I think any good coach should win 10 games against this schedule. The most I could accomplish by stating this opinion is to help some people buying into fool's gold if Mullen wins 10 games this year but turns out not to be the right guy. I probably will not even impact that. Heck right now there is a guy on another thread who bought into the idea that Muschamp had a good season one year at UF when it took a miracle blocked punt to beat U-La-La and UF scraped by againt several other bad teams. So I do not think my opinion affect fans much at all.

You cant have a discussion about deficiencies without the biggest one being discussed - Franks. He has shown he is totally clueless up to this point. Can that change? - possibly I guess.

My guess is Spurrier couldn't do anything with Franks either so unless Jones learned things real quick Spurrier would be struggling this season. My guess is if injuries weren't real bad Spurrier might pull 8 wins with this team pre-bowl.

 

[SeabeeGator]

I think you knew what I meant when I said “wrongly hired” but to clarify: I meant that in your opinion, UF did not hire the right guy.

To answer your counterfactual... if we dismiss the obvious concern at QB, I still don’t think Spurrier gets 10 with this roster (not sure why you lowered the standard for Mullen at 10 to Spurrier at 9... the only difference is an extra powder puff home game) because of the same deficiencies. He may have had more trouble because his offense needs competent QBs who are smart enough to read the field - do we have one? No, of course not.

Who says the standard for a transition year is 10 wins? A 6 game win improvement would be momumental and probably wins Mullen the National Coach of the Year award, regardless of schedule strength. He’ll be relying on mostly the same players that netted 4 wins last year against a similarly easy schedule.

Sorry man, I just don’t see your point of view unless you are just setting up an easy way to say “this guy sucks” if he “only” wins 8 this year.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

You cant have a discussion about deficiencies without the biggest one being discussed - Franks. He has shown he is totally clueless up to this point. Can that change? - possibly I guess.

My guess is Spurrier couldn't do anything with Franks either so unless Jones learned things real quick Spurrier would be struggling this season. My guess is if injuries weren't real bad Spurrier might pull 8 wins with this team pre-bowl.

1. Sure you can not have a discussion of the roster without discussing the biggest deficiency, QB. Fortunately or maybe after enough thread unfortunately as I said, QB has been discussed ad nauseam here and I wanted the opinions of people on other parts of the roster.

2. I do not know whether or not Spurrier could do much with Franks or not. I am willing to bet that one way or another even if he had to develop a 5th string QB who was suspended last year for gambling on college football game with a bookie in Athens, Ga., Spurrier would find someone to play the position competently at a minimum and very likely would find someone to be good.

3. BTW, so you are essentially saying that Spurrier would not win one game of at UTn, LSU, UGa and at FSU?

PS I went back and changed by "their" typo above as it stuck out when you highlighted my 7th point.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

I think you knew what I meant when I said “wrongly hired” but to clarify: I meant that in your opinion, UF did not hire the right guy.

To answer your counterfactual... if we dismiss the obvious concern at QB, I still don’t think Spurrier gets 10 with this roster (not sure why you lowered the standard for Mullen at 10 to Spurrier at 9... the only difference is an extra powder puff home game) because of the same deficiencies. He may have had more trouble because his offense needs competent QBs who are smart enough to read the field - do we have one? No, of course not.

Who says the standard for a transition year is 10 wins? A 6 game win improvement would be momumental and probably wins Mullen the National Coach of the Year award, regardless of schedule strength. He’ll be relying on mostly the same players that netted 4 wins last year against a similarly easy schedule.

Sorry man, I just don’t see your point of view unless you are just setting up an easy way to say “this guy sucks” if he “only” wins 8 this year.

1. Did know what you meant by wrongly hired, I just wanted to not associate myself with the idea that Mullen was some how not the legitimate coach of UF. What you meant is close to right, though none of us know exactly who UF could have gotten.

2. Everyone scoffs at 10 wins. So 10 or 9 wins are to them equally out of the question. You can make the standard whatever. I personally think Spurrier would win 10 games with this squad, but we shall likely never know. Replacing Michigan with Colorado State is not a similarly easy schedule in my mind. BTW,

4. Around here I will probably defend Mullen more than most, if he just produces a competent offense going 8-4. Of course that will somewhat depend on who he loses to and how he loses. If he blows a game on time management or something in his control, I will be tough because he is NOT a rookie head guy.

 

[Durty South Swamp]

 

[URGatorBait]

1.
2.
4.?

 

[Theologator]

2. Everyone scoffs at 10 wins. So 10 or 9 wins are to them equally out of the question. You can make the standard whatever. I personally think Spurrier would win 10 games with this squad, but we shall likely never know. Replacing Michigan with Colorado State is not a similarly easy schedule in my mind.

There was a significant drop-off for Spurrier after the 1996 NC. In my view, it was a combination of struggling to find a reliable QB (other than Rex) along with some significant recruiting disappointments. But even so, he never won fewer than 9 games at UF and won 10 or more all but 3 years. So yeah, it’s right to project at least 9-10 wins under SOS

In 11 years at SC, he only won 9 or more 4 times and was .637 overall, .523 in conference.

Mullen was .600 overall and .458 in conference. Had he won 5 more SEC games over 9 years he would have matched SOS’s winning percentage at SC. If 10 is a fair guess under SOS, 9 is fair for Mullen and 10 not outrageous.

That said, being a transition year with such big questions at QB, I just want to see progress that will give us momentum for recruiting and rebuilding UF into a national power. That has been the same desire since 2010.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

There was a significant drop-off for Spurrier after the 1996 NC. In my view, it was a combination of struggling to find a reliable QB (other than Rex) along with some significant recruiting disappointments. But even so, he never won fewer than 9 games at UF and won 10 or more all but 3 years. So yeah, it’s right to project at least 9-10 wins under SOS

In 11 years at SC, he only won 9 or more 4 times and was .637 overall, .523 in conference.

Mullen was .600 overall and .458 in conference. Had he won 5 more SEC games over 9 years he would have matched SOS’s winning percentage at SC. If 10 is a fair guess under SOS, 9 is fair for Mullen and 10 not outrageous.

That said, being a transition year with such big questions at QB, I just want to see progress that will give us momentum for recruiting and rebuilding UF into a national power. That has been the same desire since 2010.

1. Certainly not all Spurrier QBs were equal in production, but they certainly all were competent compared to what we have seen recently.

2. Interesting comparison of the stats of Mullen and Spurrier at Miss St and SoCar. Miss St had previously to Mullen won the West while SoCar had never won the East prior to Spurrier. And of course Spurrier face Clemson every year out of conference at SoCar while Mullen faced another should be bought win.

3. Recruiting will always take care of itself if you can coach. To me Mullen has a two fold issue. He must put an exciting offense on the field and win a good number of games.

 

[SeabeeGator]

There was a significant drop-off for Spurrier after the 1996 NC. In my view, it was a combination of struggling to find a reliable QB (other than Rex) along with some significant recruiting disappointments. But even so, he never won fewer than 9 games at UF and won 10 or more all but 3 years. So yeah, it’s right to project at least 9-10 wins under SOS

In 11 years at SC, he only won 9 or more 4 times and was .637 overall, .523 in conference.

Mullen was .600 overall and .458 in conference. Had he won 5 more SEC games over 9 years he would have matched SOS’s winning percentage at SC. If 10 is a fair guess under SOS, 9 is fair for Mullen and 10 not outrageous.

That said, being a transition year with such big questions at QB, I just want to see progress that will give us momentum for recruiting and rebuilding UF into a national power. That has been the same desire since 2010.

That’s a really interesting perspective: comparing Spurrier at USC to Mullen at MSU. USC is a hair better historically than MSU but not by much. Doesn’t mean Mullen will be successful here but certainly paints his struggles there in a better light.

 

[SeabeeGator]

1. Certainly not all Spurrier QBs were equal in production, but they certainly all were competent compared to what we have seen recently.

2. Interesting comparison of the stats of Mullen and Spurrier at Miss St and SoCar. Miss St had previously to Mullen won the West while SoCar had never won the East prior to Spurrier. And of course Spurrier face Clemson every year out of conference at SoCar while Mullen faced another should be bought win.

3. Recruiting will always take care of itself if you can coach. To me Mullen has a two fold issue. He must put an exciting offense on the field and win a good number of games.

Clemson, for the most part, was nothing to write home about until recently. They were better than USC historically but they weren’t some powerhouse and Spurrier didn’t really struggle with them until then end when Dabo started building contenders. I think it’s a smart comparison.

 

[Ancient Reptile]

How soon they forget. It was just 3 and 6 seasons back that UF won 10+ with terrible offenses and it very likely would have been 2, 3 and 6 seasons back expect for one storm cancelled game.

Evidently you have forgotten that we no longer have Muschamp's defensive players. If we win ten games this year, we will have a much improved offense.

 

[Theologator]

That’s a really interesting perspective: comparing Spurrier at USC to Mullen at MSU. USC is a hair better historically than MSU but not by much. Doesn’t mean Mullen will be successful here but certainly paints his struggles there in a better light.

And the east was much weaker than the west during Mullen’s years. Once Meyer left there were no contenders in the east.

 

[Gator Fever]

2. I do not know whether or not Spurrier could do much with Franks or not. I am willing to bet that one way or another even if he had to develop a 5th string QB who was suspended last year for gambling on college football game with a bookie in Athens, Ga., Spurrier would find someone to play the position competently at a minimum and very likely would find someone to be good.

3. BTW, so you are essentially saying that Spurrier would not win one game of at UTn, LSU, UGa and at FSU

I think at Miss State would be a likely loss not Tenn. This team with Franks might be in a death match with KY and CO State early this season.

 

[ChiefGator]

1. Certainly not all Spurrier QBs were equal in production, but they certainly all were competent compared to what we have seen recently.

2. Interesting comparison of the stats of Mullen and Spurrier at Miss St and SoCar. Miss St had previously to Mullen won the West while SoCar had never won the East prior to Spurrier. And of course Spurrier face Clemson every year out of conference at SoCar while Mullen faced another should be bought win.

3. Recruiting will always take care of itself if you can coach. To me Mullen has a two fold issue. He must put an exciting offense on the field and win a good number of games.

I wonder what an "exciting offense" might be. I watched the NFL network on the 72 and 73 Dolphin seasons. Was that offense exciting enough for you? Would you be happy scoring one TD and using half a quarter basically running the ball? Would you be happy if after that score and with your defense the game was essentially won?

I want a team that runs the right plays correctly, they we will win games we should, and some by large margins when the opponent is not as good as us.

When those Dolphin teams needed to pass they could, just only say less than 10 times a game.

 

[Theologator]

I wonder what an "exciting offense" might be. I watched the NFL network on the 72 and 73 Dolphin seasons. Was that offense exciting enough for you? Would you be happy scoring one TD and using half a quarter basically running the ball? Would you be happy if after that score and with your defense the game was essentially won?

I want a team that runs the right plays correctly, they we will win games we should, and some by large margins when the opponent is not as good as us.

When those Dolphin teams needed to pass they could, just only say less than 10 times a game.

If Csonka, Morris (both 1,000 yard rushers) & Kiick show up, along with Larry Little and a supremely competent QB and backup QB, then yes, I’d be happy.

Winning is exciting. The 2006 team won a lot of close, hard-fought games. That was thrilling and we were on a climb (with a competent QB and 2 generational talents in Tebow & Harvin emerging.)

Contrasted with the 2012 team, which also won a lot of games, where the offense was pathetic but defense and special teams were good enough to keep racking up W’s, I don’t think many of us would be very happy because the imbalance was so apparent and was (is) recurring year after year. I loved the LSU and FSU games that year, but the miracle against La Tech (or whatever LA directional school) was disturbing.