The reality for American teachers

Discussion in 'Politics' started by stephenPE, Apr 9, 2018.

  1. Swamp Donkey

    Swamp Donkey Wait til 2025
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    His went from $300 to over $800. Medicare is secondary. Thanks Obama!

    You think young people are going to pay their $800 a month? Why would they if they don't want a sex change? Of course they'd just choose to pay the Obamacare penalty.

    Back to teachers and their extra jobs. Nurses too work extra jobs. And when they do, the places pay them $30 or more to do it. It is because that is what the market pays them.

    Teachers too could work, but I'm not sure what the market would pay them for their expertise. It is apparently far less than what the union job gets them. That is, of course, the job of the union, to force someone to pay more than you are worth on the market.
     
  2. Swamp Donkey

    Swamp Donkey Wait til 2025
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    He always leaves that part out.
     
    • Blacklabgator

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      Exactly. I’d love ACA too if my premiums hadn’t gone up 400% and I was technically paying a mortgage on a place in St Augustine every month for insurance.
       
    • stephenPE

      stephenPE Senior Member
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      And that is the whole fckn ball of wax. Insurance has basically become a mortgage payment for health insurance.
      I dont think you guys understand what my insurance options were and are. I work for a small school district. The insurance they offer me went higher than hell and sucked. I was paying them 600 a month (three years ago) and was paying out of pocket for almost everything. They did pay for a phyiscal and colonoscopies. SO I visited the people from ACA. THEY said I qualified with my salary and all my dependents. I picked from about 30 different options. Somewhere in the middle of coverage. I paid less and got way better insurance. What part of this is confusing?
       
      • Blacklabgator

        Blacklabgator Lurking Member
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        Do you get a subsidy for your insurance ? I’m not picking but it’s very relevant to this conversation.

        And my insurance was going up every year. But not 400%!!!!
         
      • URGatorBait

        URGatorBait #TeamBrad
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        the simple answer is yes....Coach likely either doesn't realize it because of the bs spoon fed by whoever set him up with it, or he is just refusing to say it.
         
        • AlexDaGator

          AlexDaGator The Hammer of Thor
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          This is getting old Coach.

          Your "woe is me" tales.

          You have no idea how the rest of the world lives.

          Let me help you. I work with people in the hospitality industry. When the economy tanks, where do you cut first? Cable? Internet? Cell phone? Food? Electric? Auto? How about vacation? No-brainer, right? So the hospitality industry got hammered. The lucky ones took pay cuts. Deep ones. The unlucky ones were let go. Chronically understaffed departments had to work twice as hard for less money. Some got hired back after a few years. Some didn't. Some got raises. Some didn't. The ones who did? Not enough to get back to where they were before the crash. They get limited vacation days. Like cops, firefighters, hospital employees, etc., they work when people like you are on vacation. Christmas and Thanksgiving are some of the busiest days of the year. Nobody gets both holidays off (and certainly not a week for Christmas). Even if you have a week of vacation, you CAN'T take it during that week from Christmas to New Years. No pensions Coach. Some companies offer 401(k)s to some employees. Others don't. Health insurance??? You really think your terrible school offered insurance is worse than what's offered in the private sector?

          Teachers get job security. Wage increases. Benefits.

          How about lawyers? Big firms shed associates and partners when the economic crash happened. They tried to hide it though. For every attorney fired, there were 4 or more who were encouraged to take their talents elsewhere. Real estate attorneys who were billing massive numbers just a year before weren't generating money. Bye. You married? Got kids? Expensive house and cars? Too bad. Time to downsize. There wasn't enough work for young associates. Bye. And the kids who just graduated? No jobs for you. For years, new law school grads either got jobs not practicing law or were forced to hang their own shingle despite being completely unprepared for it. They had no mentors, no framework or structure. They had no money. All they had was crushing debt.

          They had to figure out how to open an "office" (sometimes their car or apartment or Starbucks), generate business from scratch, practice law not knowing what the hell they were doing. They had to pay bar dues, continuing education expenses, phone lines, internet, westlaw (maybe), marketing materials, malpractice insurance (maybe), computers, software, fax and xerox machines, phones, maybe somebody to answer the phone and pretend to be a legal assistant, You knew you arrived when you could rent an office (or more likely share an office) in a suite where you shared a receptionist and a conference room for meeting with clients (can't let the client see your actual office). Oh, and pay those loans. What do you think their health insurance looked like? They didn't have any. Maybe if they married they could get on their spouse's employee plan. No retirement plan. No wonder lots of them went into other lines of work.

          I don't understand why you feel such a need to lament the lot of our teachers.

          Lots of jobs have it rough. In trying to make us more sensitive to the plight of teachers, you are demonstrating that you are insensitive to the plight of everybody else.



          Alex.
           
          • URGatorBait

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            :popcorn:
             
            • stephenPE

              stephenPE Senior Member
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              not anymore................
               
            • stephenPE

              stephenPE Senior Member
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              I have only said it umpteen times. By virtue of qualifying for ACA I get a subsidy. I have been castigated mightily for it. I am supposed to be ashamed for qualifying for welfare in our system. I barely sleep at night knowing I am a drain on our system. I almost feel like a politician with this moral failing,..............
              alex, I will reply to your lecture much later. Kcked out today from my office.
               
              • bradgator2

                bradgator2 1/29/17 half marathon - 1 hour, 34 min, 2 secs
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                Not that this has anything to do with this thread, but it's a semi-funny teaching story so what the hell. My wife used to teach in public school an Bayou Labatre, La (you know... the town where Gump made his shrimping fortune). You want to talk about a poor school district. She was known as the disciplinarian because she is uber biitch. But those troubled kids responded well to that. One day, she overhears some ruckus in the neighboring classroom. Knowing there was a sub in there that day, she comes over guns a blazing. Those kids had overrun the class and basically tied that sub up. She snags the 3 worst offenders by their ears and drags them into the hallway. She asked if they could all participate in PE, which they all said yes. She wrote referrals for those 3 and threw them on the ground. She them made them hold a book straight out and placed a pencil on the book and they had to do squats (while holding the book straight out). If the pencil hit the ground, they were to pick up the referral and go to the principal.

                Fast forward to that night and she gets a call from the principal. One of those parents wanted my wife's head on a platter. Parents. She just coulnt deal with the parents anymore.
                 
                • divits

                  divits A Muffin of the Studly Variety
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                  The nuns at the Catholic school I went to would have said, "Awww, bless her heart........amateur."
                   
                  • bradgator2

                    bradgator2 1/29/17 half marathon - 1 hour, 34 min, 2 secs
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                    :lol: Well, it was public school... she was handicapped.

                    Although I did not attend Catholic school.... I did have to go to Saturday Catholic CCD (confraternity of christian doctrine) classes. Trust me I say HATED going to that. One day, we tried to push the envelope of our nun instructor. I spent the next hour kneeling. On dried rice. I was wearing shorts.
                     
                  • divits

                    divits A Muffin of the Studly Variety
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                    Sounds about right. Kneeling was one of their favorites. We also had a guy named Brother Clifford who was not quite a priest who would pick kids up by their cheeks and bang their heads on the hot water pipes on the ceiling in our 1920's era school. We called it a "Clifford Coochee".

                    Seriously, when I look back now it's amazing the stuff some of those sadistic old nuns would do. Many of them were frustrated old lesbians. In 4th grade Sister Mary Hilda (and she looked even worse than the name sounds) would make us line our old desks in 6 straight lines of 10 each. That's right, 60 to a class. Then we had to slide all the way over to the right hand side of our seats where the metal bar comes up that held the top part of the desk. We did that to make room on our seats for our "Guardian Angel to sit". We'd had to sit their with our legs pressed up against the metal with our hands folded on the desk looking straight ahead when she was teaching. Anyone she saw turning their head or talking to a neighbor would get a smack in the back of the head or worse, one of those big pieces of chalk thrown at them. The problem of course being that 70 year old lesbian nuns are none too accurate and usually ended up hitting an innocent by-sitter.
                     
                    • stephenPE

                      stephenPE Senior Member
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                      Because what the do is one of the most important things for the future of our country. Children as the cliche goes are the future. Teachers touch the future. Children have no political power. Many have no safety net or even protection from society. Teachers, in many cases, are their lifeline and hope for a better future. And their value in this area is less than that of a prison guard. I have laid it out there how a HS diploma will get you the same starting salary and better insurance than a teacher. That is fckd up no matter how you frame it...........fck the days off or what ever your answer is. Anyone that works in a school can tell you NOBODY could teach 49 weeks of the year and remain sane. Kids could not take that much school. Once again. I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT my job. I have a good one. Im not buried under asinine paper work or unatainable goals in terms of academic standards. They are.
                      I spent abotu 40 min. with our best teacher after school today. She was our DISTRICT teacher of the year last year. She is one of those AMAZING ones. I wanted my kids to have her but it was impossible to get them there each day. She started at 34k 4 years ago and still makes that. She take home 900 every two weeks. What she does for our children is SO MUCH MORE valuable than that it is criminal. He husband wants her to drive a truck like her and make MUCH more...........she is a born teacher. I SEE what she does with kids. Her own children are great scholars and one is on full math scholarship to Bama. Im sorry lawyers have it so bad. Im sorry that nurses work so hard or bus drivers or people that sell clothes at Sears. I just know what teachers do each day with kids. If that makes me a whiny ******* I can live with it. Teachers and public schools are under attack in Fla. Those fckn politicians in Tallahassee are doing their best to fck it up. Am I angry about it. I'm angry with what I have seen them do to ours schools and worse to the kids and teachers. Instead of building more and more jails lets try to get it right with children before we need those places when they grow up.
                       
                    • GMDGator

                      GMDGator Slick Willie
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                    • stephenPE

                      stephenPE Senior Member
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                      I read what that stupid SOB said the other day. It is Kentucky so Im not surprised.
                       
                      • GMDGator

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                      • Swamp Donkey

                        Swamp Donkey Wait til 2025
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                        Teachers unions are lobbying for money for teachers. Not for touching the future or educating our kids. They want as much money as possible for as little work as possible and for as much job security for even the laziest most incompetent teachers. Teachers unions could give a shat less about whether our kids can even read after 12 years sitting in a classroom.

                        No one buys that "it's for the children" bullshat anymore.
                         
                        • 5-Star Finger

                          5-Star Finger Apex predator of the political forum biome
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                          Sorry, I'm going to call BS here on the overworked teacher angle.

                          I taught for a couple of years during the downturn. There were a handful of teachers who were hardworking like-minded people. We cooperated on lesson plans and genuinely cared about the outcomes of our students. I taught mostly at-risk students. You may wonder why, as a new teacher I got these classes. I found out later it was because the older more experienced and much higher paid teachers didn't want to be bothered with it, and because they had seniority could drop this responsibility on the new guys. Because the majority of these at risk students were male, and the majority of those seemed to be at-risk because they were born into families with no fathers, I decided the best way to reach them would be coach them. We didn't have a basketball team so I organized one. Since you have to have a girls team too and since no one else would step up, I coached them too. I did all of this without seeing a penny of compensation. My "stipend" was spent buying dinners for kids I knew might be going home to none, not because they weren't on SNAP and TANF, but because mom was probably too strung out to cook or was off chasing some dude. I spent my Saturdays each fall at the football field for my student's junior league games, and actually got some of my more engaged colleagues to join me when they saw the results it had in my classroom. I would bring my wife and kids so they could see those interactions too. Some of those kids became extended parts of my family who still will drop by every now and again on holidays.

                          I wrote one referral in the two and half years I was in a classroom with a hodge-podge of EBD inclusion students, ESOL students, ESE students and kids that had fallen behind. I taught a first generation Jordanian immigrant to read English. He started at UF in 2016, is doing great and wants to be a cardiologist. When he was moving to eighth grade the Honors English teacher called me and tried to strong arm me out of my recommendation for honors placement. This young man had gone from a 1 to a 5 on the FCAT and it was pretty apparent that this woman was worried that his score might go down and hurt her numbers. He had, after all, spent six years in our school system and could not read simple sentences. He was lost in every class - except math.
                          When she got irate at my refusal to budge I told her we could take it up with the APC if she wanted to; I'd bring his portfolio for them both to consider. She hung up on me. Needless to say he was a straight A student in 8th grade and onward. I still carry the Dinar he gave me in my wallet. My payoff from his mom was all the stuffed grape leaves I could eat for the rest of the time he was at my school.

                          I worked my ass off, and never once felt overworked. I think the deal for me is that I had done something other than education. My career has been in financial services, both before and after my stint as a teacher. I'm generally compensated well, but the trade off for this is that many of my weekends belong to my clients or the other stakeholders in our transactions. There are times I work 65 hours a week or more. I have three weeks of vacation and usually find time to take about two weeks worth. There were times as a teacher I felt guilty because I had so much free time compared to my prior career.

                          Maybe that lower instruction time in other countries work because their families are better organized and their culture is more homogeneous. Maybe they get more help from home. Maybe they have common sense education plans rather than trying to cram every student into a college even when that same kid would be much more happy to be working with his hands. I can't tell you how many young men failing in conventional education I had the Uncle 5-Star Finger talk with about how academic success and life success were not the same thing. One young guy who ended up going into the service and becoming a damn good mechanic dropped a note a couple years back to tell me he would have dropped out because the system had him so beat down about the definition of success.

                          Whatever the reason, the amount of time we are spending with our students doesn't seem to be enough, does it?
                          Tough. Luck. You take a job to teach children. You agree to a compensation to do it. Do your job. Burn out? Walk a mile in my shoes. I loved teaching, every damn minute of it. One day, when all the little fingers leave the nest I will probably hang up career and go back to it. You see my only problem was that the dead weight pension and paycheck teachers were coasting along making every excuse in the book not to care. Come 3pm there was a teacher shaped dust cloud in the hallway where they had been standing. They got their 9 required grades in for each 9 weeks and moved on with their lives. My last 9 weeks as a teacher my students had 40 grades. Still, not that busy. At least not busy enough to feel put upon to do all the other free stuff for my kids not generally considered part of the teaching gig. But I didn't get a raise for my effort and results. I had to wait for my step, you see. Time served and all. That is a ridiculous way to run anything. Then, the district called all the teachers under 3 years into a meeting and told us they would have to let us go, budget issues - bad economy...etc. Of course they could have looked at teaching results and made cuts the way a company would but then...union, and all.Turns out that was a bluff. They did need to cut people but didn't want the bad press of firing anyone. So everyone with motivation and talent left. Some of the ones I worked with stayed and are still there - as productive as ever. I'm sure you're an exception - as I said I had the pleasure of meeting a working with some good teachers. I will say, that in my sample size, they were the exception and not the rule. A lot of people hiding there who could not make it on the outside. Just one man's opinion based on his own experience.
                           

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