To whip or not to whip?

[GatorJ]

This is a critical age when the communication between a son and a father can either stay somewhat open or go off the rails.
You really need to stay engaged and keep him talking about why he acted out like that.
Punishment - like several have said is still needed (something that he values - iPad, game console, etc.) but I would think getting him and keeping him talking is the best way to figure out what's going on in his head.
It could be something unrelated - and he's just acting out.
But the key thing is to let him know you're willing to listen to him and that he can come to you if there are issues.
This is key if you want to keep the lines open when he gets to be a teenager.

You can better gauge the punishment if you know what the situation is/was.

I raised four kids and it was tough trying to figure all this stuff out.

I always liked this quote (even if it's slightly slanted towards military leadership) - I think it still applies to fatherhood:

That's a great quote.

 

[GatorJ]

This is the area where I believe we are failing but I just can't seem to find any activity, sports or hobby that he will try more than 10 minutes before wanting to go back in the house.....and play with the Ipad or PlayStation. That was why we signed him up for the after school Jiu Jitsu classes. I think his meltdown was a way of saying "I don't want to do this anymore" I don't know what else to try, we live on a lake so I've tried to get him to like fishing, I've bought him bikes, he won't ride them, a BB hoop, he says I don't like BB, we have a pool so I tell him to swim laps, he doesn't want to... I'm lost and just wondering if a good ass whipping will wake him up/

My kids don't spend anytime outside unless we're doing boy scout stuff. That's why I'm actively involved in scouting - to get them that exposure. It's a different age.

When I was a kid there wasn't anything to do in the house and we got bored quick so we went outside and played. Now you can be entertained for hours inside the house.

I also have both my kids in YMCA basketball leagues and I coach one of the teams.

Hi have 4 bikes for my kids, bikes for me and my wife, and I installed a basketball hoop. And we don't do anything outside until late fall.

It's hot as fvk outside. I don't blame them. Hell I don't want to be out there.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Is he on ADD meds?....

No, however he may need some pain medication for his rear end if he keeps up this type of behavior.
Personally I don't believe in changing a child's brain chemistry with drugs especially one with a neurological disorder....they can be made to learn or even unlearn through ABA therapy which he has been on for 6 years. The last 2 years his therapist has acted almost solely as a tutor for school work 2 days a week after school because most of his behavioral issues were no where as severe as when he was younger and not as noticeable as many kids on the Spectrum.
I guess we'll try and change his program back to unlearning bad behavior for now and if that doesn't work then I'm going to have to use the belt.

 

[bradgator2]

Getting mom and grandma on board is critical.

I am very, very lucky that my wife and I are on the exact same page with discipline.

The #1 biggest gripe I hear from coworkers is how their spouse isnt on the same page with kid discipline. And it is obvious the kids use that to their FULL advantage.

 

[TLB]

In our home (kids 10 and 7), we have instituted restricted access to their preferred entertainment (electronics, primarily). When they were younger (3-7) we'd use the time-out method, as my wife is anti-hitting and I'm of the experience of most of the posters in the thread (I got hand and belt treatment, not real productive). But my issue with time-out is that it left them adrift - maybe they thought about what they did, but more often their minds would wander until their time was up.

I've since shifted and adapted the time-out to be more productive. For example, if my son did something to my sister, he's got the time to come up with alternative ways to handle the situation and present them to the sister and myself. It teaches them to own their role in the situation (both of them) and awareness of the other person's role, and how all parties can deal with things. This way if they are in similar situations later, or they see a friend in such a position, they can be proactive in changing the outcome or guiding it more positively. Recently my daughter was caught eating ice cream for a meal while nobody was watching - my punishment extends to her helping identify what junk food is getting removed from the house, what healthy snacks we should keep out and available. An extension is, knowing I have diabetes and don't eat properly, is to ask her to help me build a weekly meal plan with healthy choices. I hope to also have her take ownership for a meal each week - she chooses what it will be (and explains the health impact), and she prepares the meal (with adult help where needed).

Bottom line, hitting just builds fear which fades if it isn't frequent and is counter productive if it is frequent, but it doesn't build better behaviour in the long run. Time out hits a pause button but doesn't produce improvements. Punishment in our house is focused on teaching, changing the outcome should future situations arise and ownership of the available choices. Take away an activity (ipad) where they like to spend time, and fill the time with something that makes them think and grow related to the issue.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Getting mom and grandma on board is critical.

I am very, very lucky that my wife and I are on the exact same page with discipline.

The #1 biggest gripe I hear from coworkers is how their spouse isnt on the same page with kid discipline. And it is obvious the kids use that to their FULL advantage.

No doubt and more so with Grandma than mom . Mom just wants to baby him when she gets home from work and that's ok except he usually starts off with something about wanting another $9.99 app for one of his games. She does cave in more than she should but she works her ass off and is the breadwinner in our household.....Grandma's spoiling is on another level all together. we found out this summer that she was buying him $30-$40 a day worth of game stuff on his IPad while we were at the office...I almost believe she doesn't know the word no....or she does it to get under my skin.

 

[G 2]

No doubt and more so with Grandma than mom . Mom just wants to baby him when she gets home from work and that's ok except he usually starts off with something about wanting another $9.99 app for one of his games. She does cave in more than she should but she works her ass off and is the breadwinner in our household.....Grandma's spoiling is on another level all together. we found out this summer that she was buying him $30-$40 a day worth of game stuff on his IPad while we were at the office...I almost believe she doesn't know the word no....or she does it to get under my skin.

Whether your MIL can afford that or not, that is a great way to a spoil a kid. It just goes to show that the problem is probably more in how discipline is being applied and a few belt whipping will not solve that.

 

[TLB]

Forgot to add

My wife started the no-hit go-timeout method. I progressed it to he be-productive method. But we are in alignment and support one another on enforcement. We are the only adults in the house. When visiting grandparents there was an environment that would undermine punishment but we addressed that as WE are raising OUR kids how WE see fit - get on board or butt out. You need to get aligned in your house. Perhaps have an adult conversation that asks their input on how to effectively change behaviour, then ensure you come out with their commitment to remain aligned and support one another with whatever is agreed to.

 

[LagoonGator68]

No doubt and more so with Grandma than mom . Mom just wants to baby him when she gets home from work and that's ok except he usually starts off with something about wanting another $9.99 app for one of his games. She does cave in more than she should but she works her ass off and is the breadwinner in our household.....Grandma's spoiling is on another level all together. we found out this summer that she was buying him $30-$40 a day worth of game stuff on his IPad while we were at the office...I almost believe she doesn't know the word no....or she does it to get under my skin.

Toxic

 

[playzwtrux]

I read this thread & in disbelief. Whipping don't work? - I'm not sure who whipped y'all, but it sure got my attention. If you're against it then it's likely cause it was done wrong, or not at all.

I know very little about autistic individuals, but if you want to treat him as a regular child, then it sounds like you think whipping is an option. Whatever has been done IS NOT getting his attention. The mom & grandma are definitely issues. Maybe they treat him that way cause he's an only child, or his autistic condition, but it's not healthy.
I don't believe in hitting a child with a hand is correct, but a good strap of leather (wielded correctly) or a piece of hickory (5 gallon paint paddle) will do wonders when used correctly. Starting at the age of 9 though may be tough.

as for me, I use a mixture of multiple methods; grounding, whipping, time-out, etc... whipping; I use the least.

i find that my kids love for electronics is a huge source of misbehaving. limiting their time on it will also push them to try other things. most of us didn't have them growing up, and for the most part, we turned out alright.

kids will be kids though, no matter what form of discipline is used, but I truly think the key is consistently.

 

[TheDouglas78]

I have 2 boys. 2 1/4 yo and a 3 3/4 yo. I don't know yet what it will be like to have a 9 yo but I am one that will give a quick hit on the butt and send to the room if needed. I haven't given a "spanking" as I would constitute that as being more than 1 swift pop. I also thump on the ear to gain attention.

Here's my opinion, coming from one who endured multiple whippings, beatings, spankings, paddlings and switchings. It's not the answer. Sure I learned, and learned out of fear, but I was still a mediocre kid that found ways to get into trouble. At this point, I think the way to go is physical labor. Get him out of the house and mow, or rake or wax your Cobra. Make him volunteer time at the county or local shelter. Something that will teach him a lesson out of experience, not fear.

Growing up with a tree farm, that is what my dad did. I dug plenty of water lines, fire lanes, planted trees.. at one point my dad went all "Cool Hand Luke" dig a hole, 4 hours later, why is your dirty on my land... fill it in.

 

[grengadgy]

I was thinking that it sounds like there's no adult in this situation.

 

[stephenPE]

He makes me proud as a parent because of the fact that he was diagnosed as Autistic at 2 years old and over the course of almost 7 years has become completely mainstreamed and very much an "average kid"....on the other hand he seems to be easily aggravated when frustrated by people, both adults and kids, and even shows some signs of being manipulative with his Mother and Grandmother.

My son you got there. Jekyll and Hyde. Take all his stuff but with mine it works sorta. Smart as heck and loves to read. But he flips out sometimes. We warned all his middle school teachers. He is on that autism spectrum called Aspbergers. I tell people he is from Mars. Hitting him dont work cause he will hit himself harder. His teacher in middle school called the first week and said "Kevin turned in paper with :Im a fckn idiot " where his name should go. I said go read the 504. ANd he said he would now know how to work with him.......He is loving and polite and lots of good things, But then he morphs into an odd creature sometimes. I see lots of SHeldon in him.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Whether your MIL can afford that or not,

It's not even HER money...even if it were you are correct, she just does it so she won't have to be the bad guy or listen to him whine.

 

[L-boy]

Concrete,

As others know I have a daughter who has mood disorder - maybe bipolar - now 15, and a son who is autistic who is now 12. I have mixed feelings regarding spanking. We haven't used it much, and I don't think it really works. My opinion is it should be used sparingly, and only when the kid has the full ability to control their behavior. An autistic spectrum kid probably doesn't fit that profile. when my son was younger I spanked him for continually using profanity and put him in a long time out. As soon as I opened the door the first word out of his mouth was profanity. Clearly there are self control issues.

Consistency of parenting styles are an issue, but that is easier said than done, because these type kids will wear you down with their extreme behavior and parents react differently. Most parents really don't appreciate the difficulty in dealing with these kids.


Our daughter has been a hellion since age 2, but our son had issues with autism going back to a toddler, but not huge behavioral issues until probably around 9 years old and the next few years they got much worse, especially at School. As they get older they become more aware of their difference and their difficulty increases. Middle school years can be rough. Other kids around them become less tolerant of kids that are different.

One thing to watch for with kids who are aspergers is they often tend to have behavioral and mood disorder issues, and in some cases want to hurt themselves when they get middle school age or older. We haven't had those issues thankfully but we have a friend with a 15 year aspergers kid - he is a genius, but he has tried to hurt himself a couple of times.

Given all that I'd be hesitant to spank, because it his hugely harmful to an already fragile self esteem.

Also, as to meds, both our kids are on them. It is a difficult decision to go that route because they are serious and it takes a while to figure out what works. But on the flip side, if nothing else works and things continue to devolve, they may be helpful and the difference of such a kid being able to function at school. Therapy also becomes worthless if the kid has severe self control / behavioral issues. Sometimes the right meds will help enough for the therapy to be more effective.

If you end up going the meds route down the road, find a very good psychiatrist. Finding what works can be tricky and sometimes certain drugs may make things worse. For some of these kids stimulant ADHD drugs and/or anti depressants can actually "activate" and act worse. You will see a fair number of autistics kids using meds like Abilify that can work as a mood stabilizer, but these do have side effects, such as weight gain for some.

Good luck.

 

[L-boy]

I read this thread & in disbelief. Whipping don't work? - I'm not sure who whipped y'all, but it sure got my attention. If you're against it then it's likely cause it was done wrong, or not at all.

I know very little about autistic individuals, but if you want to treat him as a regular child, then it sounds like you think whipping is an option. Whatever has been done IS NOT getting his attention. The mom & grandma are definitely issues. Maybe they treat him that way cause he's an only child, or his autistic condition, but it's not healthy.
I don't believe in hitting a child with a hand is correct, but a good strap of leather (wielded correctly) or a piece of hickory (5 gallon paint paddle) will do wonders when used correctly. Starting at the age of 9 though may be tough.

as for me, I use a mixture of multiple methods; grounding, whipping, time-out, etc... whipping; I use the least.

i find that my kids love for electronics is a huge source of misbehaving. limiting their time on it will also push them to try other things. most of us didn't have them growing up, and for the most part, we turned out alright.

kids will be kids though, no matter what form of discipline is used, but I truly think the key is consistently.

What works for regular kid and a child with a mental disability / difference is completely different. If the behavior is partially the result of the disability, then hitting him is extremely harmful. Would you spank a wheel chair kid for not walking correctly? It's the same thing.

Now it gets difficult to determine how much of the negative behavior is due to his issues and how much is it just a kid being a kid. Most of the time it is probably partially both. You can't really easily separate the two. Thus hitting a kid for behaviors he has a hard time controlling is extremely harmful.

I find that people who haven't really dealt with kids like these tend to think that good parenting will fix things. But we have known people that once they really get to see the kids and the issues in depth they have a change of heart and quickly understand that conventional parenting strategies don't always apply to these kids.

 

[stephenPE]

Having dealt with LOTS of kids for almost 40 years I can say that LB is right. My son is all and more of what he says. But in some ways much easier.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Let me say that I have spanked my son maybe 5 times with my hand when he was younger but mostly as an attention getter. It did seem to help at the times when I did it. However I am starting to lean more to the popular opinion being posed by most on here regarding the belt. I'm not sure it's necessary at this point and would create more fear than fixing. If anything this past week has been more of a call to action on my part as a parent and needs to be less of a reaction on my part to 2 bad instances that happened close to each other.

I congratulated my son yesterday for realizing a situation at school that normally gets him into trouble and taking a course of action that kept him from getting into further trouble this week. It seems that in this case he benefited more from the last few days of talking about why and when he gets into trouble or has a meltdown than any fix it all fatherly drastic measures....Now he will still remain on a months electronics restriction with the ability to reduce the term by two days for every week that he completes without any behavior problems. So he can work the last week off his sentence.

We are also going to enforce gaming or electronic times and duration. Some of this will be determined by his behavior at school and home including willingness to perform some simple chores. We've also changed up his 2 hour twice a week therapy sessions to do one hour of tutoring with academics since he has always maintained an A-B average, and let them work on talking about social issues, people or whatever scenarios might trigger instances which lead to bad decisions.....

I'll update this thread to let you all know how we're progressing. Thanks to those that posted and feel free to keep posting any ideas or experiences that you want to share. .

 

[L-boy]

Let me say that I have spanked my son maybe 5 times with my hand when he was younger but mostly as an attention getter. It did seem to help at the times when I did it. However I am starting to lean more to the popular opinion being posed by most on here regarding the belt. I'm not sure it's necessary at this point and would create more fear than fixing. If anything this past week has been more of a call to action on my part as a parent and needs to be less of a reaction on my part to 2 bad instances that happened close to each other.

I congratulated my son yesterday for realizing a situation at school that normally gets him into trouble and taking a course of action that kept him from getting into further trouble this week. It seems that in this case he benefited more from the last few days of talking about why and when he gets into trouble or has a meltdown than any fix it all fatherly drastic measures....Now he will still remain on a months electronics restriction with the ability to reduce the term by two days for every week that he completes without any behavior problems. So he can work the last week off his sentence.

We are also going to enforce gaming or electronic times and duration. Some of this will be determined by his behavior at school and home including willingness to perform some simple chores. We've also changed up his 2 hour twice a week therapy sessions to do one hour of tutoring with academics since he has always maintained an A-B average, and let them work on talking about social issues, people or whatever scenarios might trigger instances which lead to bad decisions.....

I'll update this thread to let you all know how we're progressing. Thanks to those that posted and feel free to keep posting any ideas or experiences that you want to share. .

We recently engaged an advocate of sorts who works with autistic and similar spectrum kids in the school district. Simplistically he recommends first look very hard at what the trigger at school is, and as much as possible try to eliminate the trigger. Longer term you work on strategies to cope with the trigger, but that can take time. He has an autistic kid too and tells the story in middle school where in a PE situation his son hit another student. The son had learned several strategies, and went through them all. When he ran out of strategies he resorted to hitting the other kid (who probably deserved it but is nonetheless unacceptable). He told his dad he needed some additional strategies.

As to a month without electronics, if that works, great, but that seems like an awful long time for a 9 year old. When the carrot is so far out it can seem unattainable. My daughter has a friend with some psyche issues and they would put her on restriction for weeks. She seemed like she was always on restrictions. In her case it didn't seem like it helped much because the kid just resigned herself to always being on restrictions. It really depends on the kid. If it was a rare one off behavior then the severe punishment will probably work. If it happens a lot and the kid has self control issues then it will be less effective.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

This board is really the last place I'd get advise for something like this.

No offense, fellas.