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Discussion in 'Politics' started by GMDGator, Mar 6, 2017.
To me, it was something close to a miracle that Trump got his tax reform bill passed. You have Lindsey Graham, Jeff Flake, John McCain, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, etc. Those individuals have no loyalty to the Republican party of any Republican principles. I just can't see how Trump is at fault for that.
And you are carrying their water and defending their indefensible actions regarding being fiscally irresponsible. Not sure what that says about you..... I am anxious to see someone - ANYONE - with the courage and commitment to the future of this nation to LEAD us toward a peaceful and prosperous future, rather than follow the lead of their predecessors driving our nation over the cliff. I think you need to re-evaluate your definition of "victory." You mistake me from one of the pithy, childish politicians whose cause and irresponsibility you seem to champion. I will absolutely be voting in the next election, but it will NOT be for a candidate who has continued the failed fiscal policies of Obama, and I do not care what his name is. If you have been paying attention, you would know that I have praised Trump where it has been warranted, and criticized him when necessary. Maybe you should try it..... If you and your cowardly Republicans cared more about the future of this COUNTRY than remaining entrenched in their political positions and continuing their glutenous feast on pork, the future might be a little brighter.
Conservatives = Republicans. Why dont you want to admit this. Dems have done better with fiscal responsibility. They may raise taxes, but at least they try to pay for things. Republicans scam people and talk a good game, but always do the same thing. The only thing the Republicans really care about is cutting taxes and cutting Social Security and Medicare. And punishing poor people.
Because it's not true. As I said before, I am a conservative and not a Republican... as I said before, I'm a registered Independent in Florida, didn't vote for Trump, and voted for the Air Force vet Democrat over Matt Gaetz (R) for my house race. But keep on being you.
Wow we agree again.
If they end Social Security FICA taxes back? And do I still have to pay for the old folks getting Social Security? I dont like the word entitlement to describe SS and Medicare, because it confuses people to make people think it is welfare and that taxpayers did not prepay. I prefer the more accurate term- FICA Tax Refund. Because essentially, that's what it is.
This is what every Republican tells me now. They are now all conservatives, but not Republicans. Who did they vote for? This seems to be a cop out. I dont consider myself a liberal, but I did vote for Obama. So the things that he did that I did not like? I voted for him. I cant cop out. I chose the Miami Dolphins. They suck, but I chose them.
I did not know that. I voted for Trump in Texas, so I guess we are even.
That was the second time in this thread that I had responded to you telling you the same exact thing.
They are. Clinton turned a deficit into surplus. Obama:FY 2009 - Even though the budget had been approved, Congress added emergency funding to stop the Great Recession. It added the first year's worth of spending from Obama's Economic Stimulus Act to the FY 2009 budget. That $253 billion accrues to Obama.FY 2010 - Obama's first budget created a $1.294 trillion deficit.FY 2011 - This budget contributed $1.3 trillion to the debt.FY 2012 - The deficit was $1.087 trillion.FY 2013 - This was the first Obama budget where the deficit, $679 billion, was less than $1 trillion. Thank sequestration, which forced a 10 percent cut in spending.FY 2014 - The deficit was $485 billion.FY 2015 - The deficit fell further, to $438 billion.FY 2016 - The deficit rose to $585 billionFY 2017 - The deficit is projected to be $666 billion.Dems raise taxes to pay for the things they want. That is called being fiscally responsible. Republicans borrow to pay for things they want. Its always been true. Paul Ryan is full of sh!t adn a complete fraud. Never want to hear the words "debt" or "deficit" from his mouth again. Look at what happened with Obama. Spending was high during the recession. Then when people got jobs it started going down. For the last eight years we have heard from Republican con men/women the second Obama wanted to spend a dime. Totally silent now. It was a good con while it lasted.
First of all, presidents get too much credit and too much blame. It's the job of the House (allegedly) to control the purse strings. Reagan had to deal with Tip O'Neil. Clinton had to grapple with Gingrich. W had Pelosi. Obama had to work with Boehner. Also, there is a lag time built in to things the President does. What effect on the US economy is attributable to NAFTA and when did that effect kick in? Ditto for Obamacare. Then of course there is luck. Reagan had the Boomers going into peak productive years and women entering the workplace. Clinton had the "peace dividend" from the end of the Cold War (heavy lifting done by Reagan with an assist from his predecessor Carter and his successor HW) and the growth of the internet (including the dot.com bubble). W had the misfortune of 9-11. W and Obama had soaring healthcare expenses. Trump is going to have to deal with that plus the Boomers retiring. Basically, you have to take it all with a caveat. That said, here is chart showing the national debt as a percentage of GDP. Alex.
Please remember, as I said before, we knew in 2012 that the deficits were going to go down to the $4-600 billion range and then balloon back up to $1T starting in 2018. It was talked about, a lot. It was budget games. Not defending/attacking D's or R's here, it was just a fact. They all do this all the time with "out year" budgeting... looks good now, we'll deal with it later.
NOOOOOOOO!!!!! The dreaded "debt to GDP" argument!!!!
Tip of the cap to L-boy. Weird thing is, he would have LOVED this budget if Obama were in office. It is the stuff of Robert Reich and Paul Krugman wet dreams. Yet, for some crazy reason, I suspect he hates it. Alex.
Lashing out means nothing. It is acting for the cameras. Voting is what matters. They already voted for unfunded tax cuts. Now this Trump bill that Nick Malvany put together. You remember him dont you? He was the "deficit hawk" who kept reaming Obama every time he wanted to spend a penny. Mr.Tea party personified. Here are his greatest hits: "We can turn this economy, and this country around, but it will take tough decisions today in order to avoid impossible ones tomorrow," Mulvaney told the Senate Budget Committee. "Our gross national debt has increased to almost $20 trillion. That number is so large as to defy description. ... I believe, as a matter of principle, that the debt is a problem that must be addressed sooner, rather than later. I also know that fundamental changes are needed in the way Washington spends and taxes if we truly want a healthy economy. This must include changing our government’s long-term fiscal path, which is unsustainable." "He then told Politico that President Barack Obama’s 2011-12 budget proposal was "a joke. It’s hard to explain how detached from reality this is, to think that the country can spend another $1.6 trillion when it doesn’t have the means." And in an interview with Fox News that April, host Alisyn Camerota asked Mulvaney whether he would vote to to raise the debt limit, which some had called "Armageddon." (Experts have agreed.) Mulvaney responded, "It's no more Armageddon and no more catastrophic than what we're doing right now -- spending, what, $1.5 trillion we don't have this year." During a debate over raising the debt ceiling, Mulvaney ended up authoring a budget bill dubbed "Cut, Cap and Balance" in 2011 that would have capped spending and added a balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution. Mulvaney also held a series of "Spending, Debt and Deficit" town halls around his district in 2011, telling attendees at one of the gatherings, in the Sun City Carolina Lakes development, that "the country’s debt is much worse than I ever thought. Forty-two cents of every dollar Americans spend is borrowed. Allowing this figure to increase compromises U.S. foreign policy." In January 2013, Mulvaney sought across-the-board cuts in federal spending to offset $51 billion in proposed aid for those hit by Hurricane Sandy. While Mulvaney acknowledged the need for Sandy aid, he added, "I believe we can provide that relief while finding ways to pay for it rather than adding to the nation's ballooning deficit." In March 2015, as lawmakers were considering whether to find ways around budgetary spending caps, Mulvaney sided with sticking to the caps because "deficits matter. Still," he told the Washington Examiner." He is a ****kin lying joke. Shut up Nick. We dont believe you. You are full of sh!t. You dont care about the deficit or debt. You never did.
My problem wasn't with the "debt to GDP" argument, it was the rejection of any other item as a "to % of GDP" argument... like defense.
All presidents do budget games. I disregard those.
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