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Discussion in 'Politics' started by Detroitgator, Jan 12, 2018.
it’s Lee-Jackson Day after all.
A holiday to celebrate treason................this is my flag
Many feel that flag is a symbol of racism coach. That means you're a racist.
This is the battle flag of my 3xGreat Uncles unit
Dude why is my quote from the other thread in here?
I have no clue. Also The flag I posted isn't the right one. My laptop is down and I somehow posted the wrong image. Im a dumbass.
Its flag day I guess
That flag flew over a nation that accepted slavery far longer than it flew over the Confederate States of America. If you're keeping score it was 86 years to 4. The United States fought the first two years of the Civil War before Lincoln initiated the Emancipation Proclamation in January of 1863. If the Confederate Flag represents treason then why do we have Forts Bragg, Polk, Hood and others which are named after Confederate Generals? What kind of country names its military bases after traitors. The South saw itself not as traitors but as upholders of the original Constitution. They lost, and I am glad they did, because we see things now from a different perspective. But their perspective then was different. You are guilty of seeing things only through the eyes of the present. You don't have the ability to put yourself in the place of those people who lived during that time and place. Here is what a lot of liberals don't understand. If they lived in certain parts of the South at the time of the Civil War there's a good chance they would have supported the Confederate cause. Those Confederates who lived during that time did not live long enough so that they could have changed their minds as time unfolded. If R.E. Lee were alive today he would not support slavery. I just wish you liberals would get over yourselves with your "holier than thou" attitudes about historical events. It is easy to condemn those people who lived during that time as traitors and haters. It is harder to learn about history and try to place yourself in the context of that time and situation. If we go back in time a lot of us have grandparents and/or parents who were segregationists. They were not bad people. That was the world they were born into and lived in. We know people who were segregationists at one time but they lived long enough to have their minds changed by the events of the Civil Rights movement. They were not the same as when they were young. But not everyone lives long enough to see mind changing events. Our beloved University of Florida was a segregated university up until the late 1950s. No black played on the University of Florida football team until the late 1960s. The school was led by segregationists. Are you going to condemn our school changed. The Confederate flag was commonly seen at Florida Field and in homecoming parades. It was hung in a lot of dorm rooms and in fraternity houses. By the way the state of Florida, along with Alabama and Mississippi, officially celebrates the birthday of Jefferson Davis .
I'm sure the British feel the same way about July 4th.
They did not see themselves as traitors to the USA. They saw themselves as patriots to their countries...countries with names like Virginia, South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, etc. Before the Civil War, people didn't identify as "American" per se. They were Virginians, Georgians, or Alabamans. People rarely said "THE United States of America". The more common usage was "THESE United States of America". State is a synonym for country or nation. There is a reason why the colonies became states and not provinces like you have in Canada. They operated as separate nations under the Articles of Incorporation (which was a bit like the EU but in many ways even more separate). They voluntarily ratified the Constitution to join the United States of America with the understanding that they could voluntarily leave just like they voluntarily joined. If there was any language at all in the Constitution indicating that joining was permanent, it would have never been ratified. Lincoln famously offered Lee command of the Union troops. This was before Virginia joined the Confederacy. He told Lincoln he would have to follow his country...Virginia. Had he taken the Union job, he would have made war on his own friends and family. He couldn't do that. He saw himself as an heir to those other famous Virginians like George Washington, George Mason, and his own father "Light Horse" Harry Lee, a Revolutionary War hero. Calling a man like Lee a traitor is simple, lazy, and bad history. Alex.
[/QUOTE] Ray Graves put the Confederate Flag decals on the UF helmets when the Gators went against Penn State in the 1962 Gator Bowl. Following the logic of the liberals ( and some Conservatives too), Ray Graves was a racist and a hater. All memorabilia at UF related to Ray Graves must be torn down and hidden. No, on the contrary, Ray Graves was a good person who lived in a different time with a different perspective. Fortunately, Coach Graves lived long enough to see great changes in society's viewpoint. R. E. Lee did not have the opportunity to live long enough. By the way, UF upset Penn State 17 - 7.
I was mostly playing Devil's advocate. I have read MUCH about Lee and found him an honorable man. He chose the wrong side I guess. And you answered my unasked question. And Joe all those things you said about UF I was fully aware of. I have told the story of how much l loved how they marched out each game playing Dixie with the flag and that big drum. I was a lover of it cause we hated them fckn yankees..........had nothing to do with racism to me. I am fully aware of how the times were. I was there starting in 1955 and aware of things by the mid sixties. I saw it. I saw other people live it. Like I said above to alex I was playing the D's advocate and we got a GREAT history lesson. I loved Coach Graves and that was our biggest win by far up to then.................
The first Gator game I ever attended. Watch at the :40 mark. Oh, the horror!
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