Recruiting Welcome Safety Donavan Stiner

[T REX]

I agree with all of that, except for praying for a miracle. I'm more of a "make it happen" guy. I'm not looking at four 5.7-rated and two 5.6-rated members of the incoming class from a macro POV. My point is: the numbers posted by 2222 give me reason to think we have more substantive 4-stars in this class than a superficial reading of the ratings conveys. That's where I take issue with your comment, "It's as bad as it sounds. High three stars are still three stars." NOT if you factor in subjectivity and human error, which cannot be removed from a human-driven process such as rating 18-year-olds in anything.

You need to relax a little, T. Valid criticism's got its place, but don't forget to enjoy what you've got here. Either Mac will do it, or our next coach will. Bottom line: it really is . . . GR8 . . . 2B . . . . a Florida Gator!

Mac inherited a loaded defense and road that to two SEC Easts. Mac is leaving the cupboard bare for the next guy. He's not replacing talent for talent. That is a fact. You're trying to say that all of our guys are underrated? Cough, cough bull f ing shyt.

Bottom line, over time...the classes are for the most part - dead on. You can hope and wish and pray for something else but we can only go on the facts that present themselves.

You are also engaging in classic pumper behavior. He's underrated. He's a diamond. Blah blah blah. The problem with that trash is that Mac also offered all those 5 stars and high 4 stars. He wants the higher ranked kids. He just can't get any of them.

 

[deuce]

As I said he was ORIGINALLY a Baylor commit

what ever...

 

[deuce]

Mac inherited a loaded defense and road that to two SEC Easts. Mac is leaving the cupboard bare for the next guy. He's not replacing talent for talent. That is a fact. You're trying to say that all of our guys are underrated? Cough, cough bull f ing shyt.

Bottom line, over time...the classes are for the most part - dead on. You can hope and wish and pray for something else but we can only go on the facts that present themselves.

You are also engaging in classic pumper behavior. He's underrated. He's a diamond. Blah blah blah. The problem with that trash is that Mac also offered all those 5 stars and high 4 stars. He wants the higher ranked kids. He just can't get any of them.

Why do you have to resort to the childish "pumper" negative defense?

You're the very definition of a Negator. Anyone who has any other idea is branded a pumper by you, as if that carries any weight.......... I personally wish you would go ahead and admit you want the Gators to lose....

Why don't you just pull your FSU gear out and root for a "real" winner!

 

[InstiGATOR1]

It's as bad as it sounds. High three stars are still three stars.

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[gatorkev85]

Mac inherited a loaded defense and road that to two SEC Easts. Mac is leaving the cupboard bare for the next guy. He's not replacing talent for talent. That is a fact. You're trying to say that all of our guys are underrated? Cough, cough bull f ing shyt.

Bottom line, over time...the classes are for the most part - dead on. You can hope and wish and pray for something else but we can only go on the facts that present themselves.

You are also engaging in classic pumper behavior. He's underrated. He's a diamond. Blah blah blah. The problem with that trash is that Mac also offered all those 5 stars and high 4 stars. He wants the higher ranked kids. He just can't get any of them.

 

[T REX]

Why do you have to resort to the childish "pumper" negative defense?

You're the very definition of a Negator. Anyone who has any other idea is branded a pumper by you, as if that carries any weight.......... I personally wish you would go ahead and admit you want the Gators to lose....

Why don't you just pull your FSU gear out and root for a "real" winner!

FSU fans want us to keep Mac and extend him. That tells you all you need to know.

 

[T REX]

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Just heard an amazing stat on another site...since 2002(non special team players) we've had 22 AP All-Americans. Here's the break down:

11 - 5 stars
9 - 4 stars
2 - 3 stars

We've had 35 five star kids over that time period. You do the math. I want to say they said we've recruited 176 three star kids. Take a look at those conversion numbers. No one wants to hear it.

 

[GR8 2B]

Mac inherited a loaded defense and road that to two SEC Easts. Mac is leaving the cupboard bare for the next guy. He's not replacing talent for talent. That is a fact. You're trying to say that all of our guys are underrated? Cough, cough bull f ing shyt.

Bottom line, over time...the classes are for the most part - dead on. You can hope and wish and pray for something else but we can only go on the facts that present themselves.

You are also engaging in classic pumper behavior. He's underrated. He's a diamond. Blah blah blah. The problem with that trash is that Mac also offered all those 5 stars and high 4 stars. He wants the higher ranked kids. He just can't get any of them.

Come on, T! I didn't say any of that crap you just claimed I did. This is what I said, and I quote:

"[T]he numbers posted by 2222 [with regard to four 5.7-rated and two 5.6-rated members of the incoming class] give me reason to think we have more substantive 4-stars in this class than a superficial reading of the ratings conveys. That's where I take issue with your [T-Rex's] comment , 'It's as bad as it sounds. High three stars are still three stars.' NOT if you factor in subjectivity and human error, which cannot be removed from a human-driven process such as rating 18-year-olds in anything."

You're side-stepping the issue I raised in order to make the point you want to make. That's fine. I don't disagree with your point, but don't try to twist my statements to fit your argument. I'm not going to dance with you on this. Care to admit that, on the basis of 2222's numbers, we may have more substantive 4-stars in this class than a superficial reading of the ratings conveys? Or are you going to try claim that the rating system is completely objective, error-proof, and so infallible that a 5.7 rating can never be off by even 0.1 or 0.2? Hmmm . . .? Or do you want to raise an entirely different issue? If so, please make no reference to any statements of mine unless you quote them.

 

[GR8 2B]

3 star? 4 star? 5 star recruit? It's all subjective. I only care if our players are Champions of Life...amiright?

Lol. No. You're not.

 

[T REX]

Come on, T! I didn't say any of that crap you just claimed I did. This is what I said, and I quote:

"[T]he numbers posted by 2222 [with regard to four 5.7-rated and two 5.6-rated members of the incoming class] give me reason to think we have more substantive 4-stars in this class than a superficial reading of the ratings conveys. That's where I take issue with your [T-Rex's] comment , 'It's as bad as it sounds. High three stars are still three stars.' NOT if you factor in subjectivity and human error, which cannot be removed from a human-driven process such as rating 18-year-olds in anything."

You're side-stepping the issue I raised in order to make the point you want to make. That's fine. I don't disagree with your point, but don't try to twist my statements to fit your argument. I'm not going to dance with you on this. Care to admit that, on the basis of 2222's numbers, we may have more substantive 4-stars in this class than a superficial reading of the ratings conveys? Or are you going to try claim that the rating system is completely objective, error-proof, and so infallible that a 5.7 rating can never be off by even 0.1 or 0.2? Hmmm . . .? Or do you want to raise an entirely different issue? If so, please make no reference to any statements of mine unless you quote them.

On a one off basis? Sure. Multiple? No way. The numbers don't bear it out. For not being an exact science...it sure does seem like it's pretty close. Just a small FYI, if you find yourself making MULTIPLE kids in a class better than they really are you might have yourself a bad recruiter as head coach...just sayin'

 

[InstiGATOR1]

On a one off basis? Sure. Multiple? No way. The numbers don't bear it out. For not being an exact science...it sure does seem like it's pretty close. Just a small FYI, if you find yourself making MULTIPLE kids in a class better than they really are you might have yourself a bad recruiter as head coach...just sayin'

What you are missing in the underlying argument is that 4 star v. 3 star seems like a pretty big change. But in reality it might be 5.8 v. 5.7 on another scale. The different between a 4 star and a 3 star player looks pretty big, while the difference between a 5.8 and a 5.7 player looks pretty small.

That is the nature of categories. The fewer the categories you have the more information you are losing Of course with too many categories you may be engaging in false precision. So really it comes down to a matter of personal tastes. You can be star struck and lose information. You can be a stat guy and have false precision. Possibly the team rankings suffer from false precision as one post suggested.

Americans tend to be innumerate so the recruiting services have found that the star system works better with general readership. I can assure you that coaches at NO major program relies on the recruiting sites star system to decide who to offer.

 

[jdh5484]

Thank you very much, 2222! So much better than a lot of posters here make it sound.

All of the 3* Gators commits for comparison (5.8 would make them a 4*):

Donovan Stiner RR 5.7
Nicholas Smith RR 5.5
Shawn Dacis RR 5.6
Zechariah Byrd RR 5.5
James Houston RR 5.7
Ventrell Miller RR 5.7
Kadarius Toney 5.6
Jake Allen 5.7

https://florida.rivals.com/commitments/football/2017

Good info.

 

[jdh5484]

What you are missing in the underlying argument is that 4 star v. 3 star seems like a pretty big change. But in reality it might be 5.8 v. 5.7 on another scale. The different between a 4 star and a 3 star player looks pretty big, while the difference between a 5.8 and a 5.7 player looks pretty small.

That is the nature of categories. The fewer the categories you have the more information you are losing Of course with too many categories you may be engaging in false precision. So really it comes down to a matter of personal tastes. You can be star struck and lose information. You can be a stat guy and have false precision. Possibly the team rankings suffer from false precision as one post suggested.

Americans tend to be innumerate so the recruiting services have found that the star system works better with general readership. I can assure you that coaches at NO major program relies on the recruiting sites star system to decide who to offer.

That's a good summary. I would like to add that people that are not familiar with statistics often take the numbers as absolutes. Like it's a temp: 58K vs 48K. These stars are very subjective, relative numbers. If the human error in evaluations is somewhat random, then comparing the OVERALL relative class comparisons should be reasonable. Again, these numbers are subjective.

A good analogy would be to to look at the individual stars as ingredients for making a scratch cake. Sometimes you get the best butter in the world, sometimes you only have cheap margarine. Sometimes you have self-rising flour, other times you have to add baking powder. Having all the ingredients doesn't guarantee the cake comes out edible.

Regardless of the ingredients, they still have to be mixed properly (coached up) and cooked (gameday) in a reliable oven (facilities).

I would rather have all 5*. Realistically, a class that has a few 3* on one tail, a few 5* on the other tail, and the rest 4*s, will get you in the top 5.

 

[TN G8tr]

May be a nice addition and did have offers from Houston and Baylor. I have two words for this kid since he's playing in the SEC. WRAP UP!

 

[alcoholica]

Well, I've been desperately trying not to pay too close attention to recruiting these days. We're so defensive of being 3-Star U that now we're saying, "yeah, but he's a HIGH 3-star!"

We're dead.

You could go North to UGA and become a Dawg. No one will care if you lick balls up there.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

That's a good summary. I would like to add that people that are not familiar with statistics often take the numbers as absolutes.

Cool! Stars dont matter then Ole Butters has loaded up at 3 star U, and he wont be getting his azz destroyed by 4-6 Tds anymore.

Im sure he wont be sending out excuses via media carrier pidgeons about facilities and wont be surprised when his azz gets fired this fall.

Good to know.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

Cool! Stars dont matter then Ole Butters has loaded up at 3 star U, and he wont be getting his azz destroyed by 4-6 Tds anymore.

Im sure he wont be sending out excuses via media carrier pidgeons about facilities and wont be surprised when his azz gets fired this fall.

Giod to know.

You are part right here. Stars don't matter. What matters is can the players play.

 

[T REX]

We're high 3 star U!

This reminds me of the time when Del Rio had 200 yds passing but by the time the pumpers got through with their narrative he had thrown for over 400 yards and had 100% completion.

I would make a case that some of our kids are low 4 stars and almost 3 stars going the opposite way.

Goober McShucks average margin of loss? 21 points. He's blowout city manager. The worst of any head coach in the UF modern era.

 

[GR8 2B]

We're high 3 star U!

This reminds me of the time when Del Rio had 200 yds passing but by the time the pumpers got through with their narrative he had thrown for over 400 yards and had 100% completion.

I would make a case that some of our kids are low 4 stars and almost 3 stars going the opposite way.

Goober McShucks average margin of loss? 21 points. He's blowout city manager. The worst of any head coach in the UF modern era.

What the hell are you talking about?!! When did "pumpers" inflate LDR's numbers like that? You've got a bad habit of exaggerating facts to suit your narrative, you engage in ad hominem attacks (look it up) as if you think that's a legitimate way to support your arguments, and you use absolute terms way too much. In fact, absolute terms are almost never (see what I did there?) appropriate. And one more thing: you need to quit gloating over the angst real Gators feel over the state of our football program.

That is all.

 

[gatorkev85]

I agree with all of that, except for praying for a miracle. I'm more of a "make it happen" guy. I'm not looking at four 5.7-rated and two 5.6-rated members of the incoming class from a macro POV. My point is: the numbers posted by 2222 give me reason to think we have more substantive 4-stars in this class than a superficial reading of the ratings conveys. That's where I take issue with your comment, "It's as bad as it sounds. High three stars are still three stars." NOT if you factor in subjectivity and human error, which cannot be removed from a human-driven process such as rating 18-year-olds in anything.

You need to relax a little, T. Valid criticism's got its place, but don't forget to enjoy what you've got here. Either Mac will do it, or our next coach will. Bottom line: it

You are part right here. Stars don't matter. What matters is can the players play.

Apparently a bunch of guys think our recruits are average because most of them got an average grade.

Let's stop with the numbers and think of it like this 5* Is an A, 4* is a B, 3* is a C, 2* would be a D. Now a lot are saying that a few of our C players are close to a B but they didn't quite make it so they are a C+. Now by looking at this on a abcd grading scale how many of these students would qualify for UF? Maybe some of them got really good SAT scores so you might give them the benefit of the doubt on there grades but how many should you be allowing into you're school to make sure you stay prestigious as a university, because if you let to many kids with average grades in then you're prestige suffers.