Recruiting NSD 2020 Thread: Zach Evans goes to TCU

Gator By Marriage

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We have been good with a few, no doubt. We can all hope that will continue to be the case, but it's more likely we will regress back to the mean. There are exceptions, like Van Jefferson who wasn't a fit at Ohio State or Greenard who was following the coach who recruited him and he initially played for. But to assume that this trend will continue, that we know more about a kid that has spent at least a year somewhere than where he is coming from just evidence will not support that statement.
I am guessing you meant to say Trevon Grimes at Ohio State; Van Jefferson was a fine fit at Ole Miss, he just wanted to get the hell out of that train wreck.
The theory of we will just fix it with transfers, is like an NFL team trying to fix their entire roster with Free Agents. If you want to see how that works look at the Bengals, Redskins, Raiders, etc.... Recruiting is like the NFL draft. And you build your roster through the Draft (ie Recruiting). If you need that final piece or filler pieces in through Free Agency or Transfer Portal that is understandable. But we can't come out of every recruiting cycle going, we will clean it up through transfers because that is a failed philosophy.
This is a pretty good comparison. At both levels, the transfers/FA's should really about either plugging a hole or grabbing a superstar. And I suspect CDM knows this too and would much rather have his roster be 95%+ made up of guys he recruited than guys who transferred in. As for needing that final piece, it is interesting to note (well to me anyway) that three of the four playoff teams had a transfer as a major contributor.
 

Ancient Reptile

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The theory of we will just fix it with transfers, is like an NFL team trying to fix their entire roster with Free Agents. If you want to see how that works look at the Bengals, Redskins, Raiders, etc.... Recruiting is like the NFL draft. And you build your roster through the Draft (ie Recruiting). If you need that final piece or filler pieces in through Free Agency or Transfer Portal that is understandable. But we can't come out of every recruiting cycle going, we will clean it up through transfers because that is a failed philosophy.
Hope you can explain that to Belichek. And, BTW, I don't believe Van Jefferson transferred from Ohio State.
 

TheDouglas78

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I am guessing you meant to say Trevon Grimes at Ohio State; Van Jefferson was a fine fit at Ole Miss, he just wanted to get the hell out of that train wreck.

This is a pretty good comparison. At both levels, the transfers/FA's should really about either plugging a hole or grabbing a superstar. And I suspect CDM knows this too and would much rather have his roster be 95%+ made up of guys he recruited than guys who transferred in. As for needing that final piece, it is interesting to note (well to me anyway) that three of the four playoff teams had a transfer as a major contributor.

Sorry yes, also listening to a teleconference while typing it.
 

TheDouglas78

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Hope you can explain that to Belichek. And, BTW, I don't believe Van Jefferson transferred from Ohio State.

Do you not see how the Patriots use the draft especially the middle rounds that fill rosters. Your Belichek reference is completely flawed. I meant Grimes not Van Jefferson.
 

Durty South Swamp

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This is the recruiting thread.....
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BMF

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And? We’re discussing recruiting strategies - do whatever it takes to get them in the door and risk losing them shortly thereafter or be more forthcoming and retain what you get.

So you're saying Dan's strategy of taking academic and behavior risks is superior to Kirby's strategy? Although we didn't sign Manuel & Britt, we took their commitments....and ended up short a safety and a WR in the class. I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest about this. Just because they've had a few transfers - like ALL programs - they're still pulling in #1 ranked (or top 5 classes). They'll likely sign another three 5-stars in the 21 class.

And as far as Kirby being a bad coach - I get it. Unless - or until - he wins a national championship he'll continue to hold that title - the same title that Ed Orgeron held for so long. Hell, if he does win one - just like Jimbo - he'll likely still hold that distinction and people will say he just got lucky. The simple fact that they are getting to the SECCG every year gives them a shot at the national championship. It looks like he's trying to move his offense into the 21st century also. So we'll see. I'm not saying he's a good coach by any means. I heard (and still hear) the same sh*t about Jimbo, and he won one. With the talent he has on defense and along the OL, all it takes is a dynamic QB and you can win one (Clemson's first one under Dabo was all on the QB - now they're just simply as stacked as any team in the country, roster wise). I'm of the notion that a mediocre coach CAN win it all - if the stars align. Gene Chizik, Ed Orgeron, and Jimbo Fisher have all proven that within the last 10 or so years.
 

BMF

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I know we wanted avantae, but wasnt he more of a +1? Didnt we take 3 safetys?

Britt was supposed to play Safety. He and Manuel still may end up signing - Britt is supposed to announce Feb 20th, and Manuel on April 1st. But the point was that we took commitments from two high academic risks (again, two years in a row). Identifying kids with better grades may be a better strategy?
 

Durty South Swamp

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Britt was supposed to play Safety. He and Manuel still may end up signing - Britt is supposed to announce Feb 20th, and Manuel on April 1st. But the point was that we took commitments from two high academic risks (again, two years in a row). Identifying kids with better grades may be a better strategy?
The other point is regardless of who ends up at S, avantae was the gem, the others were +1's in comparison.
 

lizardbreath

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We are in a state of flux in that we are still in transit from the one place to another. I believe that as we progress, our MO will change as our position in the world improves. DM's use of the portal seems to me to be a tactic designed to achieve as much success on the field as possible, as quickly as possible. I think it's probably predicated on the assumption that in order to enjoy greater success in bringing in top recruits, we have to build some confidence in them that we'll know how to employ their talents when they get here. Admittedly, it is not a strategy for maintaining a consistent talent flow in a first-tier program. It may however prove to be a convenient and necessary step along the way to getting there. Obviously, the transfer portal is a mixed blessing. It has helped us to improve a very shaky roster in the quest for the "instant improvement' that is expected of any new staff. It is however a bit like putting a band aid on skin cancer. Masking the problem is one thing - dealing with the underlying disease is something else again.

Recruiting has definitely improved as our performance on the field has progressed. But we are still working to get back to the point of competing for championships, and that still means drawing more and better talent. Fortunately, DM apparently made a strong hire recruiting-wise with Brewster, which is another step in the right direction. I've also seen elsewhere that he is evaluating the current staff re their performance both as position coaches AND as recruiters. Like everyone else, I hope DM dumps Knox and English ASAP - they straight up suck and he must address that unpleasant reality or risk dire consequences for not doing so. But the last coach to walk into the kind of mess that faced DM when he accepted the job at UF was Charley Pell, and his "short cut" to success was cheating. I prefer the course DM is charting and I hope that he succeeds. In the fullness of time, all will be revealed.
 
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BMF

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We are in a state of flux in that we are still in transit from the one place to another. I believe that as we progress, our MO will change as our position in the world improves. DM's use of the portal seems to me to be a tactic designed to achieve as much success on the field as possible, as quickly as possible. I think it's probably predicated on the assumption that in order to enjoy greater success in bringing in top recruits, we have to build some confidence in them that we'll know how to employ their talents when they get here. Admittedly, it is not a strategy for maintaining a consistent talent flow in a first-tier program. It may however prove to be a convenient and necessary step along the way to getting there. Obviously, the transfer portal is a mixed blessing. It has helped us to improve a very shaky roster in the quest for the "instant improvement' that is expected of any new staff. It is however a bit like putting a band aid on skin cancer. Masking the problem is one thing - dealing with the underlying disease is something else again.

I'm pretty sure that's why most coaches use the transfer portal - grad transfer or not. DM is not unique in how he's used/using it. UGA just went out and landed their starting QB and probably a starting TE. Ohio State landed their starting QB last year. LSU did the same thing two years ago. The transfer portal has been good to a lot of teams and is something that will be a big boost to fixing short comings in recruiting.
 

Oscar the G

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Britt was supposed to play Safety. He and Manuel still may end up signing - Britt is supposed to announce Feb 20th, and Manuel on April 1st. But the point was that we took commitments from two high academic risks (again, two years in a row). Identifying kids with better grades may be a better strategy?
Sure, I was questioning the idea that we came up short at S. We took 3. Seems like taking 4 or 5 would be heavy, although I realize that might have been the plan. Taking 4/5 seems like it would make roster distribution difficult again down the line. Britt seems like a Mullen WR to me.

If 19 to 20 was any indication it appears that Mullen took notice of academic risks. While we had some, it certainly decreased.
 

SeabeeGator

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@BMF I am not saying Dan’s strategy is necessarily superior but I am saying you focus too much on the front end of Smart’s. Dan’s strength seems to be what happens after they arrival on campus while Smart’s seems to be getting them there. Short term, its working out for Smart but what happens when Mullen beats him? Would sorta undermine everything that Kirby sells. And I believe that will happen this year. In fact, I’ll add it to the signature so you can give me crap if we lose again.

Other than Clayton, who have we lost that was considered highly rated coming out of HS that did not involve an extenuating circumstance (talking Steele here - do not know the whole situation but JJ as a roommate was just bad all around)? Clayton? And would you agree that we have been a net positive in the transfer portal - we are picking up highly thought of kids and not losing top talent vs. what is happening at UGA?
 

TheDouglas78

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@BMF I am not saying Dan’s strategy is necessarily superior but I am saying you focus too much on the front end of Smart’s. Dan’s strength seems to be what happens after they arrival on campus while Smart’s seems to be getting them there. Short term, its working out for Smart but what happens when Mullen beats him? Would sorta undermine everything that Kirby sells. And I believe that will happen this year. In fact, I’ll add it to the signature so you can give me crap if we lose again.

Other than Clayton, who have we lost that was considered highly rated coming out of HS that did not involve an extenuating circumstance (talking Steele here - do not know the whole situation but JJ as a roommate was just bad all around)? Clayton? And would you agree that we have been a net positive in the transfer portal - we are picking up highly thought of kids and not losing top talent vs. what is happening at UGA?

The another way to look at is that UGA amasses so much talent that if they lose some to transfers or not working out, they have plenty to back that up. Where as the opposite way you do not have that fall back.
 

SeabeeGator

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The another way to look at is that UGA amasses so much talent that if they lose some to transfers or not working out, they have plenty to back that up. Where as the opposite way you do not have that fall back.
That’s valid. Depends on what you think is more sustainable long term. I think the Kirby model is outdated - you used to be able to lock down talent easily to support your program and keep them from others. With the portal, not as easy any longer. The number of outbound transfers builds a bad look. I think if Mullen could improve his recruiting just a bit - and Brewster might be exactly what is needed to get us there - than his model will ultimately win out. Snake oil salesmen get outed every time if they fail to produce.
 

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