Boeing stock takes another beating

Detroitgator

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Hindsight is 20/20, so in the case of BA knowing that the dividend had been cut and the likelihood of government intervention was coming, selling for a profit would not have been a bad thing. But since you say you are more of a long term guy, I personally subscribe to the school of if the stock doubles from my price, I sell 1/2, no questions asked. That returns all of your original investment. Hold the rest and whatever happens is gravy. You could even put in a stop for the second 1/2 and never look at it again.
I would only add these simple rules, whether long or short, to augment what FF said, and if you aren't doing them now, you are really just playing around...

  1. Know what price you want to get IN at... before you buy. You shouldn't be entering at "market" other than in very, very rare circumstances.
  2. Know what your target price is to get OUT at... before you guy. You shouldn't be exiting at "market" other than in very, very rare circumstances.
  3. You should set a stop loss (whether long or short) at your time of entry, and, if the initial SL isn't triggered, you should adjust that stop loss as the position moves in the direction you anticipated so as to protect your gains. If you are "lazy", you can set a "trailing SL." ONE WARNING ABOUT STOP LOSES: and I learned this from a guy back when algorithms really began to dominate the markets. He said, "Stop setting stop losses! The truly HUGE houses will often take a HUGE position (long or short) for a nanosecond to blow out all us "retail" investors Stop Losses because they know what traditional and/or technical level are for stop losses. This nanosecond trade triggers ALL of our stop losses, and in the next nanosecond, they take the opposite position at a massively favorable price, then the position continues on as normal and we are left looking at a screen that has a MASSIVE nanosecond spike in volume while shaking our heads saying 'WTF just happened?!?!?!;" Instead, most platforms will let you set an ALERT in the same fashion as a Stop Loss. Use ALERTS at your Stop Loss levels and you get a text, you can quickly assess whether or not you truly want/need to exit a position, or be able to say, "Fukkers just did it again!" but you are still in your position instead of stopped out and likely crying.
  4. FF said his rule is if the position doubles, he takes 50% off. My twist is this: if your position hits the target price you set on DAY ONE, when you entered the position, you REASSESS the situation, and if all the conditions are still there, then take 50% off and let the other 50% ride. If you hit your target, but conditions for the position have changed, exit the full 100% and move on to the next opportunity.
Other than the Stop Loss/Alert comments, those have pretty much been the rules for 100 years, yet no one (often myself) seems to have the discipline to follow them... they start looking at all the crazy things going on, watching news, whatever... and f'ing with the rules instead of just following the position and the market as it is in front of you, not as you think it should be.
 

FireFoley

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@Detroitgator is correct about any STOP order. I personally never ever ever use a physical stop order. I do use mental stops. Even tho it is all machines now, the market makers know where the stops are. In the old days like when the NYSE had specialists. , the specialist in a stock might look at his book and see he did not have a lot on it, it was a quiet time and he might run the stock in a way to take out some stop orders. Even if it just a small order or two or three It was free money basically for those guys.
 

Detroitgator

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@Detroitgator is correct about any STOP order. I personally never ever ever use a physical stop order. I do use mental stops. Even tho it is all machines now, the market makers know where the stops are. In the old days like when the NYSE had specialists. , the specialist in a stock might look at his book and see he did not have a lot on it, it was a quiet time and he might run the stock in a way to take out some stop orders. Even if it just a small order or two or three It was free money basically for those guys.
Yup, and in the smartphone age, price ALERTS that you can set yourself are awesome. You get a text telling you the price was hit, and everyone has an app if you in fact need to exit the position
 

BMF

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I won't give any specific advice, but congrats on that timing. If things were normal I would say that the oil stocks are going up while oil is going down. That is usually a good sign. But you have the government sniffing around so that could be an issue either way. I found it interesting that OXY paid Buffet his 200 Million preferred dividend the other day in common stock and he immediately filed to sell it. But lets be honest Buffet is not always correct, plus he already owns a shyt ton of the common also. I would keep an eye on the crude oil futures contracts starting at like August on out. The June and July contract will expire probably before the world is back up and running so they might run into the same issue that the May contract did. but bottom line is you have a profit so you can always put in a protective stop at a price that you would want to get out if it drops. If it continues to climb higher or stays steady then you will still own it. Keep us posted. I am rooting for you b/c I own a bunch of stuff in that area, but not OXY specifically.

As expected - OXY is up big so far this morning! FML!!!
 

FireFoley

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As expected - OXY is up big so far this morning! FML!!!

Way to go. Ride the wave, enjoy the ride and do not turn this winner into a loser. Time to start looking for the next win, rather from the long or short side. There is a train leaving the station every hour.
 

FireFoley

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Boeing just announced they are going to raise $25B (Billion with a B) thru a debt offering with different maturities. They were originally going to try and raise 20 but there was such a clamor for their paper that they upped the offering. They could have raised $100B probably. There is such a demand for yield and not enough to go around. Good for BA. As far as their finances go, they won;t have to answer to the incompetent government. they just need them to okay the Max, which is still up in the air.

Maturities range from 3 to 40 years. FWiW the 10 year tranche sold at a 5.15% yield. Apparently there was demand for up to 75B along the entire spectrum.
 
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BMF

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Down to $122 today. Is it time to buy more or sit tight?
 

BMF

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Way to go. Ride the wave, enjoy the ride and do not turn this winner into a loser. Time to start looking for the next win, rather from the long or short side. There is a train leaving the station every hour.

OXY down 10% today.
 

FireFoley

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OXY down 10% today.

Yeah it was fun while it lasted. Beaten down stocks had their 2 days in the sun last week. Now it is back to the same 5 or so.

As far as BA or OXY go I offer no advice, but I would just hope that you don;t turn either one into a loser. I am actually scheduled to be on a plane this weekend. I will let you know what the crowd was like and you can use that info FWIW.
 

FireFoley

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@BMF, I told you I would give you a report on my flight this past weekend. I was on a BA 737 and there was 35 or so passengers. I have heard flights were getting a bit more crowded, but here is what I learned. If Air travel picks up at all, airports are going to be a nightmare. I was like 15th in line to go thru security and b/c of the distance kept, I was almost on the street. They had one security line open and very few TSA agents. I view this as a big problem even if they have more lines and more people. It is going to be impossible to keep people physically separated. Are people just going to say FVKK it, I am not going or I will drive?
 

BMF

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@BMF, I told you I would give you a report on my flight this past weekend. I was on a BA 737 and there was 35 or so passengers. I have heard flights were getting a bit more crowded, but here is what I learned. If Air travel picks up at all, airports are going to be a nightmare. I was like 15th in line to go thru security and b/c of the distance kept, I was almost on the street. They had one security line open and very few TSA agents. I view this as a big problem even if they have more lines and more people. It is going to be impossible to keep people physically separated. Are people just going to say FVKK it, I am not going or I will drive?

I haven't thought about that. Hopefully once things "open up" the TSA will start staffing more appropriately.

I just want that BA stock to get back over $200!!
 

FireFoley

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I haven't thought about that. Hopefully once things "open up" the TSA will start staffing more appropriately.

I just want that BA stock to get back over $200!!

Well patience could turn out to be a virtue, but as you know Hope is not a strategy. But at least BA was able to raise money without any of it coming from the government so they will not be prisoner to the government yet.

As for now, after about 14 minutes of value stocks having their say, it has been 2 straight weeks of the big 5, along with Zoom, Nvidia, Clorox, etc.. SSDD
 

FireFoley

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So the BA CEO says he sees one of the major carriers going out of business. I can respect his honesty but how does that statement potentially affect BA's business in the future? BA is a monster company and very important in the scope of U.S. GDP, but it is amazing how minor it has become in the minds of many. Just like JP Morgan. JPM is often called the World's Best Bank with a fortress balance sheet. Well has anyone seen the JPM stock chart latel?. It sux dog monkey penus and looks like it is headed lower. For the record I own JPM at higher prices so I am taking a bath. But I mention it in this thread to show how major worldwide companies have become meaningless in the minds of many.

So what is the talk, Well Uber is bidding to buy Grubhub. Yes that's right. A company that delivers Taco Bell and Subway sandwiches to stoners is where the world is trending. That is what we have become. Boeing JPM, Dow Chemical, and other Industrial and Financial stalwarts are going to fall by the wayside to food delivery services (that do not make money), Zoom video and Slack (that do not make money) and TV services (that do not make money). My how the times have changed.
 

AugustaGator

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So the BA CEO says he sees one of the major carriers going out of business. I can respect his honesty but how does that statement potentially affect BA's business in the future? BA is a monster company and very important in the scope of U.S. GDP, but it is amazing how minor it has become in the minds of many. Just like JP Morgan. JPM is often called the World's Best Bank with a fortress balance sheet. Well has anyone seen the JPM stock chart latel?. It sux dog monkey penus and looks like it is headed lower. For the record I own JPM at higher prices so I am taking a bath. But I mention it in this thread to show how major worldwide companies have become meaningless in the minds of many.

So what is the talk, Well Uber is bidding to buy Grubhub. Yes that's right. A company that delivers Taco Bell and Subway sandwiches to stoners is where the world is trending. That is what we have become. Boeing JPM, Dow Chemical, and other Industrial and Financial stalwarts are going to fall by the wayside to food delivery services (that do not make money), Zoom video and Slack (that do not make money) and TV services (that do not make money). My how the times have changed.
I blame it on my generation. We think we can change natural laws.
 

BMF

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BA is up 14% so far today. I added a few shares last week at $117.
 

FireFoley

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I expect @BMF to be in here cackling about BA today, but hey he has been sticking his neck out so he can crow. I find it very interesting that one of the reasons BA is up a lot today was that Third Point (Dan Loeb) bought into the most recent debt issue by BA. Loeb is a long time rabble rouser as a hedge fund manager and most recently was making a lot of noise at Campbell Soup. Got helped a ton there by the Kung Flu, but wondering why the debt and not the equity? hedge Fund managers aren't ones to care about dividends per se and there was no real discount on the credit. Safer, yes, more lucrative, well not thus far.
 

Detroitgator

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I expect @BMF to be in here cackling about BA today, but hey he has been sticking his neck out so he can crow. I find it very interesting that one of the reasons BA is up a lot today was that Third Point (Dan Loeb) bought into the most recent debt issue by BA. Loeb is a long time rabble rouser as a hedge fund manager and most recently was making a lot of noise at Campbell Soup. Got helped a ton there by the Kung Flu, but wondering why the debt and not the equity? hedge Fund managers aren't ones to care about dividends per se and there was no real discount on the credit. Safer, yes, more lucrative, well not thus far.
the lonnnnnggggg game... and cuz the Fed guaranteed BAs debt issue?
 

FireFoley

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the lonnnnnggggg game... and cuz the Fed guaranteed BAs debt issue?

Yes, I know, but the FED has basically guaranteed almost all corporate debt, hence zero volatility in the corporate bond market. I just hope I live to see how the Fed gets out of this behemoth they have created. My instincts are that I will not make it. Not enough time or they will never get out.
 

BMF

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I expect @BMF to be in here cackling about BA today, but hey he has been sticking his neck out so he can crow. I find it very interesting that one of the reasons BA is up a lot today was that Third Point (Dan Loeb) bought into the most recent debt issue by BA. Loeb is a long time rabble rouser as a hedge fund manager and most recently was making a lot of noise at Campbell Soup. Got helped a ton there by the Kung Flu, but wondering why the debt and not the equity? hedge Fund managers aren't ones to care about dividends per se and there was no real discount on the credit. Safer, yes, more lucrative, well not thus far.

Foley, I took your advice and sold off some shares at $170 (it ended $173). So now I'm in for free (I have 11 shares left). I've now done this w/ OXY, MRO, and BA (I still have some MRO that I'm down on in my brokerage, but I'm holding free MRO in my Roth now).

Also, my USAA brokerage (which held my Roth and non-retirement brokerage) transferred over to Charles Schwab about a week ago. The platform on Schwab blows away USAA. I'm really enjoying their set up. Also, they allow you to buy $1 minimum into their mutual funds - which is crazy. So I'll start tacking on small amounts into their S&P 500 fund.
 

FireFoley

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Nice going @BMF. Good job. I was just yanking your chain. It does not matter how many shares you had or now have, the important thing was your process and % return. I wish I had my cancelled BA order shares from 90 but I pussed out. The beauty is you can put in a protective sell stop if you like or not and just let those "free" shares take you where they may. The house's money. Yeah Chuck Schwab has a nice platform and you can trade for free. And whatever you put away and wherever you put it is awesome b/c unlike most, you are saving YOUR money!. You know what we say around here. No one cares more about YOUR money than YOU. When you find your next BA score let us all know on here so we can play along! You are a hot shooter now and we want to bet with those dice,
 

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