Conceal carry anyone?

ThreatMatrix

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Very light for my wife with laser site...fits in your back pocket.

She says mine is heavy.

Was thinking aluminum .38 but that kicks too much and I want the same ammo.

I also want a very short home denfese shotgun. My over-under is too heavy and long for her.

But two barrels in your face gets their attention...and you can't miss. Just pull.
You're working against mutually exclusive requirements aren't you? You want low kick AND light weight. For instance my 9mm Beretta has less recoil than my buddy's .380 Hellcat but then the Beretta is much heavier.
Maybe subsonic ammo? Someone else will have to speak to how much less recoil that has. But I imagine subsonic .380 is even harder to find these days.
With time though recoil becomes less of a perceived issue. My friend who started shooting 6 months ago has worked her way up to being comfortable with 9mm. She owns a Shield EZ in .380 (light, less recoil, easy to rack) however she's now comfortable shooting my 9mm Shield. And is now looking at buying a 9mm Sig P938. Also she's become more comfortable with racking heavier slides.
 

Detroitgator

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You're working against mutually exclusive requirements aren't you? You want low kick AND light weight. For instance my 9mm Beretta has less recoil than my buddy's .380 Hellcat but then the Beretta is much heavier.
Maybe subsonic ammo? Someone else will have to speak to how much less recoil that has. But I imagine subsonic .380 is even harder to find these days.
With time though recoil becomes less of a perceived issue. My friend who started shooting 6 months ago has worked her way up to being comfortable with 9mm. She owns a Shield EZ in .380 (light, less recoil, easy to rack) however she's now comfortable shooting my 9mm Shield. And is now looking at buying a 9mm Sig P938. Also she's become more comfortable with racking heavier slides.
Yeah, this is always going to be the problem with "pocket pistols"/subcompacts... without weight, you are going to have hard recoil/snap. It is even a harder problem now with everyone moving to SA/striker fired pistols. I am a fan of striker fired/no safety pistols, but the weight, and corresponding reduced recoil/muzzle flip of pistols like Sig's P230/232, the PPK, even the Makarov were very, very nice, but they were bigger, heavier, and you had the DA first round... with any of those older DAfirst/SAafterthat pistols, you really had to train yourself to fire pairs, and ignore the first round.
 

Swamp Donkey

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.... except I may buy a Browning Hi-Power out of nostalgia...
I swear we are related. It is scary sometimes.

I figured I was "done" with new guns, not because I didnt think there might be other great guns out there, there certainly are, but because I figured Id never find anything good enough to make me change.

The P365 really beats the LCP to G43 sized guns completely, and the 365XL is such a great gun in a small package. The XL has the same sight radius as G19 or similar compacts though. Nice performance and very thin package w just enough grip. Ammo and mag commonality too.
 
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AvgJoe

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Yeah, this is always going to be the problem with "pocket pistols"/subcompacts... without weight, you are going to have hard recoil/snap. It is even a harder problem now with everyone moving to SA/striker fired pistols.

I am not fan of composite frames or striker fired pistols for carrying. My carry is a CZ 75 PCR. Alloy frame with a decocker so the DA pull has less take up than a hammer down DA.
Less muzzle flip with the heavier frame and the CZ has a lower bore axis too.
 

Swamp Donkey

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I am not fan of composite frames or striker fired pistols for carrying.
:doh:

Youre living in the 1970s.


But CZs, really ALL of them, are nice. they are essentially the final culmination in the Browning design.
 

Detroitgator

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I am not fan of composite frames or striker fired pistols for carrying. My carry is a CZ 75 PCR. Alloy frame with a decocker so the DA pull has less take up than a hammer down DA.
Less muzzle flip with the heavier frame and the CZ has a lower bore axis too.
I'm the biggest CZ fan in the world. My all steel 75 Compact is the best feeling weapon in my hand I've ever had
 

AlexDaGator

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Donk:

I am aware of your issues. I said I was looking for a smaller 380 for my wife because she wants something lighter...mine is steel.

So I am looking at one that fits in my pocket with a laser site. Same ammo (Hollow Point) as mine, single stack and I have a use for both.

I like a revolver because they are simple...almost always work BUT again harder to shoot especially snub nose and very light. and I want the same ammo.

I am not getting my wife a .22...she is not an assassin and I want a little stopping power.

The shot-gun is for the home will mostly mine. I have my hunting shotgun but may get a just legal light-weight, stop them at the door, nasty #$%^&*.

I suspect she may think a smaller, lighter gun would be easier for a smaller, lighter female to shoot.

Take her to the range to disabuse her of that notion. Let her fire a few rounds of the exact same ammunition out of a full size pistol and out of a tiny, light-weight pistol.

She may very well change her mind about carrying a little extra weight.



Alex.
 

NOLAGATOR

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I suspect she may think a smaller, lighter gun would be easier for a smaller, lighter female to shoot.

Take her to the range to disabuse her of that notion. Let her fire a few rounds of the exact same ammunition out of a full size pistol and out of a tiny, light-weight pistol.

She may very well change her mind about carrying a little extra weight.



Alex.

She won't carry it. I like a little weight. So I may get it for her...and me. I may get a pocket gun.
 

Bullag8r

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I suspect she may think a smaller, lighter gun would be easier for a smaller, lighter female to shoot.

Take her to the range to disabuse her of that notion. Let her fire a few rounds of the exact same ammunition out of a full size pistol and out of a tiny, light-weight pistol.

She may very well change her mind about carrying a little extra weight.



Alex.

This. The worst weapons I have owned are a Glock 27 (40 cal sub compact) and a Ruger 9mm lcr revolver. I sold the Glock to my son in law. After putting 30 rounds through the Ruger at the range I took it to the gunshop and traded it for a Sig 320 M18. It is the best gun purchase I ever made. I don't even look at lightweight pocket guns anymore. I still have a Kimber micro 380 which is a great pocket gun if you wear overalls. My conclusion is that subcompact lightweight guns lack good balance necessary for proficient shooting.
 

Detroitgator

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This. The worst weapons I have owned are a Glock 27 (40 cal sub compact) and a Ruger 9mm lcr revolver. I sold the Glock to my son in law. After putting 30 rounds through the Ruger at the range I took it to the gunshop and traded it for a Sig 320 M18. It is the best gun purchase I ever made. I don't even look at lightweight pocket guns anymore. I still have a Kimber micro 380 which is a great pocket gun if you wear overalls. My conclusion is that subcompact lightweight guns lack good balance necessary for proficient shooting.
You don't buy a pocket pistol for every day carry. It's a one time, single use, tool. It is never going to feel good in your hand and you will never get proficient with it... They are purely "dump your load center mass and run," period.
 

crosscreekcooter

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You don't buy a pocket pistol for every day carry. It's a one time, single use, tool. It is never going to feel good in your hand and you will never get proficient with it... They are purely "dump your load center mass and run," period.
I agree with this for the most part with exception of the first pistol I owned (1975), H&K .380 mod 4. While it felt great in my hand with light recoil, it was grossly underpowered. The slick hard plastic grip was another negative. The pistol came with conversion barrels and magazines to run .22 LR, .32, and .380.
wm_1447709.jpg
 

Swamp Donkey

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You don't buy a pocket pistol for every day carry. It's a one time, single use, tool. It is never going to feel good in your hand and you will never get proficient with it... They are purely "dump your load center mass and run," period.
Plenty of people buy nothing but pocket pistols, though, including the person who asked this question.

Most modern pants don't have pockets big enough for a pocket pistol anyway. I guess it depends on how old or how limited your wardrobe is.

The thing is you have to dress for the gun regardless. that likely means oversized shirts untucked, and not the lil girl midrift showing stretchy ones either, a vest/jacket something. even buying buying pants with giant pockets is dressing for the gun. #untuckedshirtmafia Inthink Deet coined that himself.

I found long ago that wearing a g19 size gun is no harder than wearing a g26 size gun assuming it's not an ankle and the g19 size gun shoots very well at any range and handguns useful at.
 

Detroitgator

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Plenty of people buy nothing but pocket pistols, though, including the person who asked this question.

Most modern pants don't have pockets big enough for a pocket pistol anyway. I guess it depends on how old or how limited your wardrobe is.

The thing is you have to dress for the gun regardless. that likely means oversized shirts untucked, and not the lil girl midrift showing stretchy ones either, a vest/jacket something. even buying buying pants with giant pockets is dressing for the gun. #untuckedshirtmafia Inthink Deet coined that himself.

I found long ago that wearing a g19 size gun is no harder than wearing a g26 size gun assuming it's not an ankle and the g19 size gun shoots very well at any range and handguns useful at.
Agreed... When I say "pocket pistol," I'm only talking about something the size of an LCP, nothing bigger.
 

Bullag8r

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You don't buy a pocket pistol for every day carry. It's a one time, single use, tool. It is never going to feel good in your hand and you will never get proficient with it... They are purely "dump your load center mass and run," period.

Dumping your load center mass is the definition of 'proficiency' when it comes to self-defense and in my opinion that proficiency is significantly compromised when firing a lightweight sub-compact that exceeds 22 caliber. Disclaimer: My opinion is based on my experience which is somewhat limited as compared to some of you with comparatively vast experience.
 

Detroitgator

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Dumping your load center mass is the definition of 'proficiency' when it comes to self-defense and in my opinion that proficiency is significantly compromised when firing a lightweight sub-compact that exceeds 22 caliber. Disclaimer: My opinion is based on my experience which is somewhat limited as compared to some of you with comparatively vast experience.
Again, I'm in agreement with you guys, but here are my qualifiers:
  1. for ME, a "pocket pistol" is not bigger than my Ruger LCP. Anything larger than that in size and weight, while it can certainly fit in your pocket, is not a "pocket pistol" for me. For the LCP, in it's pocket sleeve, I don't even know it is there (seriously, in dress pants, i don't even feel the weight of it). i RARELY carry this way. For any other circumstance, there is no "in between" for me. As Law says, if I'm not in my "LCP mode", there is NO reason I cannot jump straight to the 3.75" or longer barrel length range, zero reason. For me, while I love a lot of pistols that fall in this category, there is absolutely no true need for any barrel length/size between my LCP and anything 3.75" or longer. None. A 3" barreled sub-compact is not a "pocket pistol" in my book.
  2. So then, as you allude to, the question is "what chambering for the true pocket pistol?" I agree with you to a large extent on the "exceeds 22 caliber" point. So it becomes a decision on lethality/incapacitation. Again, I'm not in the market for looking, but had there been a true .22, say 10+ round capacity pocket pistol, i MIGHT have considered it because for me personally, "proficiency" = "band of life," and with .22 recoil, i'm pretty sure i could have that accuracy in a pocket pistol. There is no way you can have my definition level of proficiency with how I define a "pocket pistol" when you start talking about 9mm (especially 9x19 or larger) chamberings... at BEST, we are talking dumping into center of mass, and most shooters would still have complete misses in doing so.
  3. So, there is the much maligned .380 (which yes, is 9mm, but much smaller than 9x19). It deserved to be maligned 25 years ago. But with today's ammunition combined with proficiency, I'll put my first two rounds in your band of life from 15 yards with as little as a 3" barrel every time. With my pocket pistol? No, wouldn't even try, it's center of mass only for almost everyone because yes, the damn thing snaps the fuk outta yer hand.
  4. How do I try to compensate for that in center of mass shooting. I start low, because very rarely do people end up shooting low under stress. I will try to dump that entire mag into that big, wide, plate called your pelvis and smash the fuk out of it with a high degree of likeliness to at least immobilize you so I can run instead of poking a bunch of little holes in your body that may or may not incapacitate you... not to mention if target is wearing body armor.
So, in summation, I'm only saying all this within MY definitions of weapons and proficiencies, and, given that, I'm either "LCP small" or "3.75" or longer barrel."
 

AuggieDosta

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What is the general consensus on the Sig P365 SAS with the embedded FTBullseye sights and ported barrel?
(note: SAS stands for Sig Anti Snag)

It looks extremely promising.
 

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