Conceal carry anyone?

Swamp Donkey

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If anyone wants to know how to successfully rack and fire an 870 one handed, even after you’ve been hit twice, google Edmundo Mireles. He was the FBI agent who killed the two perps in the Miami shootout in 1986. One. Tough. Guy.
It isnt fast though.

You can damn well bet Ed Mirales would have preferred a semi-auto on that day.

This is one of the downsides to 12g artillery. It has many, many downsides, but across the room (7 -25 yards) its effectiveness is undeniable.
 

Bullag8r

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It isnt fast though.

You can damn well bet Ed Mirales would have preferred a semi-auto on that day.

This is one of the downsides to 12g artillery. It has many, many downsides, but across the room (7 -25 yards) its effectiveness is undeniable.

Thus the term ~ home defense. By the way, I just ordered a tube extension for my Remington 870. It will increase capacity from 4+1 to 9+1
 

Gator By Marriage

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It isnt fast though.

You can damn well bet Ed Mirales would have preferred a semi-auto on that day.

This is one of the downsides to 12g artillery. It has many, many downsides, but across the room (7 -25 yards) its effectiveness is undeniable.
No doubt, but he certainly improvised, adapted, and overcame. And then finished them off with his .357.
 

Concrete Helmet

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And then finished them off with his .357.
F vck that....I'll bet the FBI has some bitchen breeching devices...I was hoping you were gonna tell me he finished them by skewering them onto the barrel of his 870, then pegged them against a wall and left them there as a sign to any other criminals....
 

Concrete Helmet

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Not sure how many know this but a 12ga pump will rack itself and eject the shell if you fire it without your hand on the action(one handed)....as long as you're shooting Buck/slugs or hot Turkey loads...
 
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Swamp Donkey

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Thus the term ~ home defense. By the way, I just ordered a tube extension for my Remington 870. It will increase capacity from 4+1 to 9+1
Well, the problem is you may well get shot yourself and a high percentage of shots got into your hands and forearms (as the Miami FBI shootout demonstrated). This seems to be because the rounds tend to go where the person is focusing and they tend to focus on your gun.

The other problem is that at 5-7 yards, a shotgun is basically a rifle. Many dont understand this and think you just point in the general direction and take advantage of the spread (you know, like on tv).

I think we did all of this in that shotgun thread.
 
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Bullag8r

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Well, the problem is you may well get shot yourself and a high percentage of shots got into your hands and forearms (as the Miami FBI shootout demonstrated).

The other problem is that at 5-7 years, a shotgun is basically a rifle. Many dont understand this and think you just point in the general direction and take advantage of the spread.

I think we did all of this in that shotgun thread.

Good to know. What do I do? Toss a smoke bomb or a hand grenade? I have a 9mm that would shoot faster but I think that I might be more accurate with the shotgun.
 

Swamp Donkey

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Good to know. What do I do? Toss a smoke bomb or a hand grenade? I have a 9mm that would shoot faster but I think that I might be more accurate with the shotgun.
You're definitely going to be more accurate with a longarm. (The only exception might be crosseye dominant who cant pickup weakhanded shooting).

Just shoot it some at the range at across your bedroom or down the hall distances and become familiar with how much you have to aim/point and know how small the spread is at that range.

One other thing, those fiber optic front sights are fantastic. They don't cost much. There are versions that will sit on top of a ventilated rib or different versions that will screw into where your bead used to be.

Understand I'm not talking the shotgun down I just want you to do your best to minimize the downsides.

The shotgun takes more skill to use effectively than any other gun and even somewhat seasomed shooter tend to cause malfunctions under stress (shortstroking mostly). Reloading is slow and somewhat difficult. Even those who can reload quicker with all these fancy methods, are unlikely to be able to do so when adrenaline makes your hands feel like mittens.

HOWEVER, the pump shotgun is very cost efffective and supremely multi functional.

Moreover, if you gave me ONLY one round of 9 mm 45, 223, 308, or 12g and a gun for it, Id take 12 (at least inside a house) without hesitation.
 
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Bullag8r

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Your definitely going to be more accurate a a longarm. Just shoot it some at the range at across your hedroom distances and become familiar with how much you have to aim/point.

One other thing those fiber optic front sights are fantastic. they don't cost much and there are versions that will sit on top of a ventilated rib and versions that will screw into where your bead used to be.

I did a lot of hunting during high school and won a turkey shoot when I was 15 but I haven't shot the 12 gauge but once or twice in the past 20 years. I better get some practice.
 

Concrete Helmet

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I have a 9mm that would shoot faster but I think that I might be more accurate with the shotgun.
I would consider myself in the same category however within the confines of your home the shotgun can be more difficult to maneuver with through doorways, walls, hallways and tight spaces. If you only live with your spouse you're lucky because you can hunker down in one room and wait out the situation or wait for the problem to come to you(most advisable)....Shotgun is the clear winner in that situation, but if you have to go bring your family members to safety and aren't sure of the location of the threat I could see where a pistol may be as good or better choice without worrying about the over penetration of defensive shotgun loads(I've switched to 5 rounds of high velocity game load in my tube with 5 rounds of 00 in the saddle and yes it is unloaded and locked every morning)the buckshot would only be deployed if the other 3 people in my house are within the same room with me....Once I get more experience with my pistol I may change my mind on this matter but for now the shotgun still gets my vote.
 

G8trwood

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Whatever you get, put a light on it! Target ID is a thing.
Looked at the new Henry the other day. Not too bad. Maybe Ruger will bring the Marlins back after the Remmington debacles . You can keep extra rounds in a tactical Crown Royal bag :)

getting more fond of the levers in my old age, especially those sexy octagonal barrels
 

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F vck that....I'll bet the FBI has some *****en breeching devices...I was hoping you were gonna tell me he finished them by skewering them onto the barrel of his 870, then pegged them against a wall and left them there as a sign to any other criminals....
Were that that had happened! I don’t know if you know story about that firefight, but it was not a good one. The Bureau lost two agents and had five wounded that day.
I had the privilege once of sitting in an auditorium and hearing Mireles speak about the incident. It was some brilliant detective work that enabled them to find the two scumbags, but after that everything that could go wrong did and they made some serious tactical errors. A lot of lessons were learned from that incident. RIP Jerry Dove and Ben Grogan.
 

Bullag8r

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I would consider myself in the same category however within the confines of your home the shotgun can be more difficult to maneuver with through doorways, walls, hallways and tight spaces. If you only live with your spouse you're lucky because you can hunker down in one room and wait out the situation or wait for the problem to come to you(most advisable)....Shotgun is the clear winner in that situation, but if you have to go bring your family members to safety and aren't sure of the location of the threat I could see where a pistol may be as good or better choice without worrying about the over penetration of defensive shotgun loads(I've switched to 5 rounds of high velocity game load in my tube with 5 rounds of 00 in the saddle and yes it is unloaded and locked every morning)the buckshot would only be deployed if the other 3 people in my house are within the same room with me....Once I get more experience with my pistol I may change my mind on this matter but for now the shotgun still gets my vote.

All good considerations. There are so many unknown variables in a home invasion and there is not a lot of time to think through the specifics when you have been awakened in the middle of the night. I keep both the 12 gauge and the 9mm at my bedside and pray that I am awake and aware enough to make the right decision. Only me and wife in the house so that limits the danger of hitting an unintentional target.
 

Swamp Donkey

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but after that everything that could go wrong did and they made some serious tactical errors. .
Most of the things seemed to be fog of war / sh#$ happens (glasses broken, lost gun, unable to reload bc of bone bits in the cylinder etc).

To me the biggest problem was the plan itself, going after known armed bank robbers who had already shot several people using semi auto rifles while the agents were armed with.... revolvers. And one shotgun.... in the trunk.
 
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Gator By Marriage

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Most of the things seemed to be fog of war / sh#$ happens (glasses broken, lost gun, unable to reload bc of bone bits in the cylinder etc).

To me the biggest problem was going after known armed bank robbers who used semi auto rifles while armed with.... revolvers. And one shotgun.... in the trunk.
Some of them had semi auto pistols, but your point is well taken. The things you mentioned were among the lessons learned and became the genesis for major changes in how federal agents were armed.
 

Detroitgator

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Most of the things seemed to be fog of war / sh#$ happens (glasses broken, lost gun, unable to reload bc of bone bits in the cylinder etc).

To me the biggest problem was going after known armed bank robbers who used semi auto rifles while armed with.... revolvers. And one shotgun.... in the trunk.
Bone bits suck...
 

Panamag8or

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Back to cc... I don't have a permit yet, but I just got a Taurus G2C for when I do. Shoots okay, but not as smooth as my Ruger sr9.
I got a iwb holster, but didn't like it, so I just got a sneaky pete owb holster that meets the requirements for cc. I like it much better.

For a glovebox gun, I got my grandfather's WWII trophy, a Bayard 1906, made in 1916, with the German army proof stamps. Still shoots good for a 100+ y.o. gun.
 

G8trwood

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Most of the things seemed to be fog of war / sh#$ happens (glasses broken, lost gun, unable to reload bc of bone bits in the cylinder etc).

To me the biggest problem was the plan itself, going after known armed bank robbers who had already shot several people using semi auto rifles while the agents were armed with.... revolvers. And one shotgun.... in the trunk.
And yet there are still tons of guys doing similar work who drive around with their gear on the seat vs on their body........ but it’s uncomfortable, I can’t get to it...
 

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