Foley's larger failure: Facilities or Butters?

jhbyrd

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Let's look at Auburn rather than Tennessee since the comps are closer.

It's not stadium size. Heck, we rarely even fill ours anymore. Jordan-Hare Stadium seats fewer fans than Ben Hill Griffin and yet Auburn outpaced us in ticket sales by 4.4M. It's not price. Auburn charges $0.25 less per ticket on average.

Is there less to do in Auburn than Gainesville? Perhaps but my guess is not by much. Gainesville isn't exactly a megalopolis and it's an hour/hour and a half's drive to the beach. There aren't that many kids laying on Crescent Beach who could be instead at Ben Hill Griffin.

The answer is the product on the field. Auburn over the past decade has consistently fielded top-flight teams. We haven't.
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Auburn is a fair comp. The current advantages they have for game attendance over UF are:

-They have been winning (beat Bama) and have momentum

-their games have had a more exciting offense

-there is less to do in the state of Alabama than the state of Florida

- at birth in the state of Alabama you have to declare if you are a Bama fan or an Auburn fan and if you say neither they hate those people worse. These type of people go to games. The state of Florida is not as intense on college football as we have professional sports in Florida.

-UF is harder to get into and accepts more professional students (not raised on college football) who have no life outside of studying and do not attend football games. Hence our student section hurts our attendance figures.
 

jhbyrd

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However as it stands right now he's light years away in terms of how well 2/3 past 3 coaches did for their 2nd class. Urban finished with the #2 class and Muschamp finished #3. They both made major strides in their 1st full class. I'm not sure Mullen finishes in the top 12 which will be a huge disappointment for his 1st full class.
You know what happens when you assume. Still very early in the 2019 class process to jump to a conclusion.

Mullen did better than Meyer in the transition class so that is not negative data to draw a conclusion on.

What you could say that is negative is win/loss experience the 6 years prior to Mullen is worse than what happened prior to Meyer/Muschamp coming in. That is negative. Mullen did not cause that.

My guess is that your #12 class projection is overly pessimistic. I think the offense will do better which will help our recruiting plus the planned new football center (which 2019 recruits can use as juniors) added to our top athlete academic facility and our new IPF will help. We probably do not get as high as Muschamp and Meyer in their second class but we likely do better than 12.

If Donkey is right about the UGA OC plus we get better injury luck this season we could upset them and that would help recruiting.

Stricklin relates better to the young recruits than Foley did.

The 2020 class is when I think Mullen's work ethic and the new football center (recruits will be able to use it as sophomores) will really pay off in recruiting.
 
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Auburn is a fair comp. The current advantages they have for game attendance over UF are:

-They have been winning (beat Bama) and have momentum

-their games have had a more exciting offense

-there is less to do in the state of Alabama than the state of Florida

- at birth in the state of Alabama you have to declare if you are a Bama fan or an Auburn fan and if you say neither they hate those people worse. These type of people go to games. The state of Florida is not as intense on college football as we have professional sports in Florida.

-UF is harder to get into and accepts more professional students (not raised on college football) who have no life outside of studying and do not attend football games. Hence our student section hurts our attendance figures.
I can agree with all of that. Our student fans are extremely fair weather. They'll be back when we're winning and it's once again cool to follow the football team.
 

jhbyrd

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I can agree with all of that. Our student fans are extremely fair weather. They'll be back when we're winning and it's once again cool to follow the football team.
I hope you are right. My hope is that the new President wI'll start admitting more students that will go to football games. He is trying to increase UF's ranking on the US News college list. He does that by admitting fewer and fewer males who are Gator fans.
 

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I hope you are right. My hope is that the new President wI'll start admitting more students that will go to football games. He is trying to increase UF's ranking on the US News college list. He does that by admitting fewer and fewer males who are Gator fans.
The wording of your reply is a bit misleading. I think what you said is the current president is attempting to put a lid on male enrollment.

How is that possible?
 

gatorkev85

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You know what happens when you assume. Still very early in the 2019 class process to jump to a conclusion.

Mullen did better than Meyer in the transition class so that is not negative data to draw a conclusion on.

What you could say that is negative is win/loss experience the 6 years prior to Mullen is worse than what happened prior to Meyer/Muschamp coming in. That is negative. Mullen did not cause that.

My guess is that your #12 class projection is overly pessimistic. I think the offense will do better which will help our recruiting plus the planned new football center (which 2019 recruits can use as juniors) added to our top athlete academic facility and our new IPF will help. We probably do not get as high as Muschamp and Meyer in their second class but we likely do better than 12.

If Donkey is right about the UGA OC plus we get better injury luck this season we could upset them and that would help recruiting.

Stricklin relates better to the young recruits than Foley did.

The 2020 class is when I think Mullen's work ethic and the new football center (recruits will be able to use it as sophomores) will really pay off in recruiting.
I'm sure that kids coming in this year will be stoked to have below average facilities for half their stay. I dont think that has as much pull as you think. Kids are very much what can you do for me now, not what can you offer me later
 

jhbyrd

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The wording of your reply is a bit misleading. I think what you said is the current president is attempting to put a lid on male enrollment.

How is that possible?
Did not mean that. Maybe a better way of putting it is a much higher number of in state males who grew up as Gator fans are not getting in UF since Fuchs arrived.
 

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Did not mean that. Maybe a better way of putting it is a much higher number of in state males who grew up as Gator fans are not getting in UF since Fuchs arrived.
How in the world do you quantify that?
 

jhbyrd

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I'm sure that kids coming in this year will be stoked to have below average facilities for half their stay. I dont think that has as much pull as you think. Kids are very much what can you do for me now, not what can you offer me later
Some kids are like that. Not all. Others like that UF is closer to home or want to go where they will get quicker playing time. Others like UF's major investment in athlete academics some don't. Now one for all. Means UF will attract the more serious kids where as schools like Clemson will get the kids who are less concerned with academics and more about bowling alleys and slides.

UF's weight room is large from the Swamp front door renovation but our locker rooms need updating. Our athlete academic center is top tier. Our IPF is good also.

With the new football center will be better and more efficient.
 

MADGator

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Did not mean that. Maybe a better way of putting it is a much higher number of in state males who grew up as Gator fans are not getting in UF since Fuchs arrived.

I've probably bytched about this before somewhere on this board, but my argument in a nutshell is that UF is basically not admitting "normal" students anymore. Kids have to have 7.3 GPA's, set new score records on the SAT, be all-world in one of the five high school activities they're involved in, and if they aren't in class then they need to be spending every waking moment doing volunteer work. Slight hyperbole there but those are the kids being admitted and those kids don't give a single, solitary shyt about football.
 

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Knock yourself out if you want to google to prove me wrong.
Wrong. You made the statement. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

Knock yourself out.
 

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Applicant: I have a 4.2 GPA, National Merit Honor Society, student government, head of the local Meals on Wheels chapter. I also serve part-time as pastor at my church.

Dr. Fuchs: Finish this sentence. It's great to be a _______.
 

jhbyrd

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If I cared what you thought 78 it would matter.
This is not uncommon:

"we are also UF rejects. My kid was disappointed but has several friends in the same boat all headed to FSU where for what he wants to do it is likely a good fit. But like I mentioned in previous posts the standards that are applied seem a little curious. For an in state white male with full tuition Bright Futures plus the pre paid plan I suspect he was held to a much higher standard then OOS or a more "diversity friendly candidate." And before I am accused of being a bitter angry racist dad let me share his numbers: 3.96 UW GPA/ 4.56 UF GPA; 29 ACT; well over 100 hours community service, including volunteering in a program that helps disabled children for the last three years. Also wrote in his essay how he overcame major life changing surgery that cost him half a semester his junior year yet he maintained his straight A grades even in his AP classes, which he took 8 of getting 5 or 4s in all of them. Obviously the weak link is the ACT, but the "holistic" review apparently discounted all else.

our local paper today there is a front page story on how even USF is raising their standards but still is under pressure to remain "diverse". They have 52% non-white student body currently and are concerned that when their standards are raised they will become to quote the story, "smaller and whiter". That is an outcome that will not be tolerated on todays campuses. Consequently the bar will be have to be set much higher for certain demographics.

This is just the way the world works now. So bottom line is for anyone reading this that doesn't fit a preferred demographic get your kids in SAT camp starting in middle school or just plan to take a hard look at out of state schools as an option where the school may value the higher tuition they can charge over whether he/she checks off a "diversity" box."
 
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There you have it. Qualified minority students don't do the Chomp.

My fiance's boys are half-Filippino by virtue of their dad. They are both headed to UF on scholastic scholarships. They won't miss a game.
3702087017c3225c8aeb1603f0777f50.jpg
 

BNAG8R

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It’s time for everyone to realize that football has seen its glory days, and that it is going the way of gladiator battles and bare knuckle brawling. The kids are into e-sports now - watching other kids play video games. Football games are too hot, too long, no cell signal, too dangerous. Timmy and Tommy don’t play pop warner anymore because mom worries about CTE.

It’s dead, boys and girls. Time to deal.

Don’t shoot the messenger.
 

MADGator

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Applicant: I have a 4.2 GPA, National Merit Honor Society, student government, head of the local Meals on Wheels chapter. I also serve part-time as pastor at my church.

Dr. Fuchs: Finish this sentence. It's great to be a _______.

Sorry kid, I don't think that 4.2 is going to get you admitted. :lol:

What frustrates me the most is that being a legacy doesn't mean a damn thing to UF. Kids with all the above, except the NMHS, but still exceptional students, both parents are alumni, a chance for UF to create something special for the university and the families, aaaaand, nope. Denied. And they don't care.
 

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