Gator Basketball Gators lose to Michigan State, 63-59

[Theologator]

#2 i said earlier in my post what the gell has hayes being doing for 4 years dont look like he never picked up a dam dumbell it's so frustrating watching him get shoved around game after game .mw needs to just put all the freshman in and just run

Hayes’ hands are weak, seems to fumble the ball, get stripped, lose the rebound etc., and he hasn’t stretched his game even 6’ from the rim.

I also noticed that on an entry pass our front court guys tend to pull the ball in low to gather themselves for the shot or dunk. That split second gives defenders a moment to react and make a play. I don’t know much about basketball but that’s a pretty basic mistake.

 

[Frozen Gator]

Hayes’ hands are weak, seems to fumble the ball, get stripped, lose the rebound etc., and he hasn’t stretched his game even 6’ from the rim.

I also noticed that on an entry pass our front court guys tend to pull the ball in low to gather themselves for the shot or dunk. That split second gives defenders a moment to react and make a play. I don’t know much about basketball but that’s a pretty basic mistake.

To be fair to Hayes, he is (and has been) being played out of position. We don't have a true center and Hayes (and the team) suffers for it. When we had Egbunu Hayes was a valuable and prolific contributor.

 

[GatorJ]

Few thoughts:

1) Does White focus at all on offense during practices or is it only defense? From our performances in his tenure, I’m leaning towards the latter.

2) Do we need a new strength coach? Feel like Mike Kent just switched over to basketball. We’ve been soft in the paint for a while now, and Hayes looks like he’s gained 2 lbs since he got here.

3) As much as I love Allen, we have to stop putting the ball in his hands late. I can’t think of a time he’s hit a big shot late but I can remember plenty of misses. Please correct me if my memory is failing me.

4) White does not hold his players accountable for reckless shots. It’s apparent he lets our guys do basically whatever they want on offense and take any contested shot at any point. Start sitting guys like you would when they have a breakdown on defense.

5) FREE THROWS! Cannot continue to shoot 50% from the FT line. Get these guys a sports psychologist or something cuz this is getting ridiculous and it’s already cost us a couple games.

Alright, I feel better now :)

I think the answer to all of this is relatively simple. It does not matter what sport you coach or play. Any team that is defense oriented will not succeed in the long run. Defensive mentalities mean that you do not trust offense to be a plan to win.

So what do I mean by that?

I’m just going by my limited basketball coaching experience. In seasons where we had players who were limited offensively, We did not spend as much time going over offense as we did defense. Because if you could get effort out of the players you could keep the score is low enough to have a chance to win. And we did that by having tough practices and squeezing every amount of effort that we could out of them. We could run as many offense Schemes as we wanted but it would not matter because the boys just couldn’t put the ball in the basket. It was basically like working toward their strengths. If we did not do that we would get run out of the gym.

Now I don’t know if that is what Mike White is doing. Maybe he has a defensive mentality. But I doubt it. I think it’s a skill problem.

You see, basketball is different than football. Players can be great at both. If you get players that have high basketball IQ, can shoot, work great with the ball in their hands, and have a great length - you are going to have somebody who can be really good at offense and defense. It then becomes a coaching process where you will have to get them to understand that defense is as important as offense.

Again as I said in an earlier thread, I haven’t really watched us this year other than the last game. We don’t seem to move the ball particularly well on offense. Which leads me to believe that there is more time in practice spent on creating effort and hustle plays than offense. If you’re having to spend that much time on defense And intensity, it tells me that you don’t have the horses to run complex offensive basketball.

I used to follow our recruiting heavily in basketball but I don’t do it as much anymore. Does it seem like we are bringing in kids that can handle the rock, have length, and can score?

 

[NVGator]

As White harps on little details, offense remains a mystery

 

[GatorJ]

As White harps on little details, offense remains a mystery

Yep. That lines up exactly with what I said above. He’s harping on defense and hustle because these guys do not have the offensive capability to win.

You are just not going to be tourney or championship capable without having guys who can create their own shots and score.

I don’t care how much you hustle or harp on defense. Effort without talent is more useless than talent without effort.

 

[LeeForThree]

As White harps on little details, offense remains a mystery

National media finally calling out White and his inability on offense. Also, the fact that he complains about hustle and defense when that is NOT the issue. The problem starts and ends with White at the moment. If only Gator media had a pair as well lmao

 

[FireFoley]

National media finally calling out White and his inability on offense. Also, the fact that he complains about hustle and defense when that is NOT the issue. The problem starts and ends with White at the moment. If only Gator media had a pair as well lmao

I read the article and it mentions what you and me and others have been harping on for well over 2 years with Mike. Zero half court offense!!!! They mentioned ball movement. With the Gators the ball just sticks after every pass. One pass, stick. Next pass, stick. Call it the Carmelo Anthony offense. I watched part of the game on replay and saw the same things as last year. PG dribble off high screen and the other 3 players not involved in that action are all standing flat footed. I happen to think that the Frosh PG is as true of a PG as you can get nowadays and would find open cutters and shooters if you moved them constantly. For the life of me I don;t know why Mike does not go to a 4 man passing game with a designated off the ball screener since we don;t have a low post threat of size. As for the zone offense I don;t hold out hope. Mike will forever have 4 or 5 guys not moving and passing the ball lazily around the perimeter until they jack up a 25 footer. There won't be any cycle action in and out of the lane!

 

[CGgater]

Also, the fact that he complains about hustle and defense when that is NOT the issue.

Sounds just like muschamp’s pressers.

 

[Double Gator Dad]

The coaching that these Gators need should be occurring & recurring in the practices. They should be performing offensive plays with "fallback" schemes when those plays don't develop. Practice is for rehearsing stuff 'til it's perfected. Practice higher speed passes. Do more hustling movement to gain clearance, to gain time to get set for a solid shot. Don't practice going slow ! IDK, of course, but we can't go on this way. It's White's to make right.

Each player needs that 90% FT coach's video on hitting free throws : watch it at practice's end Monday & go shoot on your own time ... then watch it after practice Tues, Weds, Thurs, etc. Watch, studying his technique & go out to shoot that way. Plus, get Canyon Barry to teach the underhand FT. Some gotta improve that way.

We seem to have young players who can push the action better than the old guys. Then practice that way.
Stokes isn't in playing shape or experience shape, so play him into effectiveness. We gotta have inside big men.
Stokes, Bassett, Stone should be able to crash the rim being 6'8+ 250 lbs.

There are way too many mysteries and unsolved issues with this team. We have absolutely no inside presence so we play basically 4 perimeter guys and a center, like Villanova and others, which gives us quickness. The only problem is that these perimeter players can’t shoot and only drive to the basket when there is no opening. Although they play hard defensively it doesn’t make much difference if 90% of their possessions are wasted on offense. I am struggling with a team with lots of depth and experience that gets most of their production from freshmen. If this was football we would be blaming coaching but I guess we aren’t allowed to do that since White’s reputation is supposed to be so strong. The balance of the SEC upgraded their basketball coaches and wrote big checks because they wanted to be like Florida. Meanwhile we decided we were tired of winning so much and shopped for an “up and coming coach” from the bargain bin. Looking forward to the NIT this year.

 

[NVGator]

Bottom line, White sucks. He’s sucked since he’s been here. He’ll suck going forward. He’s gonna land a few recruits next year and I wouldn’t be surprised if a couple flip. Doesn’t matter because the problem lies with him, not the defensive effort.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

Well I read the additions to this thread since the game ended and found them insightful and interesting. This team is a mystery. My view on various comments in the tread:

1. UF, as every one has said, did not lose to Michigan State due to a lack of hustle. UF turned over Mich St 15 times while only turning the ball over 9 times. UF missed 40 shots by got an offensive rebound on 40% of those missed shots, 16/40. That is a team that won the hustle part of the game.

2. The FT shooting as is typically the case and the shooting from the arc did not cost UF the game as both teams made 7 FTs. To shoot 70% UF would have needed to make one or two more than they did. The shooting from the arc was 25.6% for UF v. 26.7% for Mich St so the game was not lost at the arc via poor shooting. Now UF took 11 more shots from the arc than Mich St and only made 2 more of them possibly indicating a shots selection issue, but UF shot about 44% inside the arc, 17/39, while Mich St shot 61% inside the arc, 22/36. UF lost this that game by not making shots inside the arc.

3. My one disagreement with the comments in the thread is that this Mich ST team is not a particularly good Mich State team. They are solid and play sound offense, but that really are not as good as their ranking which I suspect is more due to their coach than their play so far this year. They are not particularly tall and despite them having a bit of bulk on Hayes, UF was the bigger team in the game yesterday.

4. Allen is a very streaky shooter and as someone said, not be trusted to make a big shot late in a game. UF really does not have that guy though maybe Locke can be that guy as he matures. Though the worry is that White has seemingly ruined the shooting of Allen and Hudson and maybe Okauru, so I wonder about Locke going forward. That does not make Allen useless, Kenny Boyton similarly did not hit big shots and really could not be the guy with the ball in his hands late, but he was a solid player for UF.

I could rant some more. White with his big class SIGNED is not going any where after this year. Maybe this team will progress some this year, but I too am a skeptic.

 

[itsgr82bag8r]

 

[LagoonGator68]

Well I read the additions to this thread since the game ended and found them insightful and interesting. This team is a mystery. My view on various comments in the tread:

1. UF, as every one has said, did not lose to Michigan State due to a lack of hustle. UF turned over Mich St 15 times while only turning the ball over 9 times. UF missed 40 shots by got an offensive rebound on 40% of those missed shots, 16/40. That is a team that won the hustle part of the game.

2. The FT shooting as is typically the case and the shooting from the arc did not cost UF the game as both teams made 7 FTs. To shoot 70% UF would have needed to make one or two more than they did. The shooting from the arc was 25.6% for UF v. 26.7% for Mich St so the game was not lost at the arc via poor shooting. Now UF took 11 more shots from the arc than Mich St and only made 2 more of them possibly indicating a shots selection issue, but UF shot about 44% inside the arc, 17/39, while Mich St shot 61% inside the arc, 22/36. UF lost this that game by not making shots inside the arc.

3. My one disagreement with the comments in the thread is that this Mich ST team is not a particularly good Mich State team. They are solid and play sound offense, but that really are not as good as their ranking which I suspect is more due to their coach than their play so far this year. They are not particularly tall and despite them having a bit of bulk on Hayes, UF was the bigger team in the game yesterday.

4. Allen is a very streaky shooter and as someone said, not be trusted to make a big shot late in a game. UF really does not have that guy though maybe Locke can be that guy as he matures. Though the worry is that White has seemingly ruined the shooting of Allen and Hudson and maybe Okauru, so I wonder about Locke going forward. That does not make Allen useless, Kenny Boyton similarly did not hit big shots and really could not be the guy with the ball in his hands late, but he was a solid player for UF.

I could rant some more. White with his big class SIGNED is not going any where after this year. Maybe this team will progress some this year, but I too am a skeptic.

White doesn’t realize he’s the problem........yet.

 

[Ocalaman]

I have been and continue to be a Mike White supporter. Dickie V thinks he's a perfect fit for UF and will get them back to national prominence. But then I look at Tennessee and what Rick Barnes has done there in a very short time and I begin to wonder.
They beat #1 Gonzaga today and look to be a prime contender this year, probably better than Kentucky. Why aren't we there in year #4 of the White era?

 

[Frozen Gator]

I have been and continue to be a Mike White supporter. Dickie V thinks he's a perfect fit for UF and will get them back to national prominence. But then I look at Tennessee and what Rick Barnes has done there in a very short time and I begin to wonder.
They beat #1 Gonzaga today and look to be a prime contender this year, probably better than Kentucky. Why aren't we there in year #4 of the White era?

Barnes is an excellent veteran who has a chip on his shoulder and is getting his mojo back after being ousted at Texas. White on the other hand is young and is in his first gig at a big time program. He's still in training wheels a little bit and is learning on the job. We will have to suffer with him as he grows.

 

[t-gator]

Bottom line, White sucks. He’s sucked since he’s been here. He’ll suck going forward. He’s gonna land a few recruits next year and I wouldn’t be surprised if a couple flip. Doesn’t matter because the problem lies with him, not the defensive effort.

I doubt they flip because they already signed

 

[t-gator]

I have been and continue to be a Mike White supporter. Dickie V thinks he's a perfect fit for UF and will get them back to national prominence. But then I look at Tennessee and what Rick Barnes has done there in a very short time and I begin to wonder.
They beat #1 Gonzaga today and look to be a prime contender this year, probably better than Kentucky. Why aren't we there in year #4 of the White era?

This board would have lost their shcit if we hired barnes after Texas fired him. Speaking of Texas, hows shaka done there so far? He was the board sweet heart. Talking about a bust.

 

[t-gator]

White's a damn good coach. I'm glad we have him. He's gonna be here a long time.

 

[Tay Bang]

White's a damn good coach. I'm glad we have him. He's gonna be here a long time.

Me too. We don’t match up well with long athletic teams like Sparty and Nolies. We got a bunch of upperclassmen smurfs and gawky bigs that will hopefully be phased out with a few recruiting classes.