Some Gators football history

Thick&ThinG8r

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Your memory is a bit exaggerated. It was 107 allegations. The end findings after all was said and done were much fewer, 59 most of which were minor. I did a quick search to confirm those numbers but cannot find an article that affirms my memory that the major infractions were more like 7.

Still a bad, bad time. I’m not suggesting it should change your mind. But for me, it made the prior and subsequent flagrant and unpunished violations at f$u and scUM all the more frustrating.
Until you show me proof I'll stick by my statement. The number 107 does sound familiar but, 59 is way off and that I'm sure of. Possibly 126 allegations and guilty of 107. I know I read every available word on the subject back then and it was a real punch in the gut. Maybe someone can find it in the Sun archives.
 

jdh5484

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Possibly but remember Pell didn’t have the luxury of Kerwin Bell to the extent Hall did. That offensive line, too, made a helluva difference.
True.
 

jdh5484

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Me too, Rodney F’n Brewer.
What a buzz kill that game turned out to be. We were lucky to get the damn tie.
UF BLOWS LEAD, TIES RUTGERS GATORS LOSE BATTLE OF BACKUP QBS--AND WIN STREAK
With what seemed a comfortable 28-7 lead against 20-point underdog Rutgers midway through the third quarter, Florida coach Galen Hall put backup quarterback Rodney Brewer in "to get some experience." It was an experience Brewer would rather forget as the Scarlet Knights rallied for a 28-28 tie in a wild finish before 71,708 at Florida Field. Brewer threw two interceptions and fumbled before Bell was reinserted with 7:20 remaining. Defensive tackle Todd McIver returned the first interception 48 yards for a touchdown, and linebacker Matt Bachmann picked off the second to set up Rutgers' 9-play, 65-yard touchdown drive, ending with Albert Smith's 1-yard touchdown.
 

Double Gator Dad

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When I think of Pell one thing is burned in my memory 133 violations, guilty of 126.
Hell he even sent a scout to sit in a tree and watch a Mississippi State practice and there's no advantage in that what so ever.
I'm sorry but the guy ran a rogue program from top to bottom so he gets no credit from me at all. Hell you can't hate Pearl and be fine with Pell.

When Pearl and his ilk are properly punished I will agree with you. Last time I checked, Pearl was an active coach in the SEC making millions while simultaneously showing the NCAA his middle finger.

Until then Pell was a victim of NCAA hypocrisy.
 

SeabeeGator

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we don't have a problem with money. we've always been a 10 school in fundimg amd used to be top 2.

we just have a problem finding athletic department personnel who will spend our football money on football.
That’s idiotic. They would quit donating if their money was not spent as they intended. They have a lot of power - maybe more so than the AD.
 

Swamp Donkey

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That’s idiotic. They would quit donating if their money was not spent as they intended. They have a lot of power - maybe more so than the AD.
You think the alums WANT our money to be spent on softball, baseball and gymnastics?

I dont think most pay close attention tomthe budget, or how much is gobbled by admin and nonrevenue sports.

To be clear, I wish all of our sports were being funded well oh, we certainly have the money for it, I just want football fixed first.
 

SeabeeGator

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Let’s break this down:
You completely misunderstood the intent of my comment. Hall was a film room guy and a completely uninspiring figure. His recruiting mirrored it. It’s not deflection or opinion or anything else, it’s fact. Our recruiting was immediately impacted by Pell’s departure, to the point where by the late-‘80s we had, beyond Emmitt Smith, a very average roster.
It is most assuredly not fact - its opinion. You know what is fact? Pell’s cheating landed some of the worst sanctions - if not THE worst - sanctions this school has ever received. Opinion: crippling sanctions impact recruiting. And as you say, cheating went out the window in 84, including paying players. If you don’t think those two thing alone helped Pell outrecruit Hall, I don’t know what to tell you.
Think Miami mid-‘90s under Butch Davis. He was a recruiting machine. They got very good, he left for the NFL and bald-headed, poker-faced Larry Coker takes over, the wind very much at his back. One problem. Coker couldn’t recruit. What happened to Miami after a few empty seasons?
Coker was a lousy coach all around. There is a reason Miami was his only shot. They hired him based on emotion and got burned plain and simple.
What happened at UF was very similar. The Pell cheating involved spying on other teams’ practices, payments and gifts to players. Yes, it was cheating. Would he have been successful had he not cheated? You can ask that question right here, and probably the vast majority of respondents from this board will tell you yes, he would have.
It’s possible but we will never know. What we do know is that he cheated - a lot - at the two biggest schools he coached at. He was part of a failed staff at UK that all got fired too. Not saying that was his fault but he was certainly a part of the failure.
Go back and look at the list of players recruited by Pell from my previous post and tell me that wasn’t a solid list of athletes. You’re young and probably don’t know them to the degree an older Gator would.
That’s a great list of players and I do know them - the internet is a treasure trove of information. Do you think they come here if he was not paying them? You could argue that others might have tried Too but he probably outbid them - which is probably why he got caught in the first place. He was going above and beyond what others were doing at two different schools.

Implying my age has to do with lack of understanding is misguided - in fact, I would argue that your bias is prohibiting this conversation more than anything. You really liked Pell. Got it. Dude was a cheat - and that is fact as it was proven AND he admitted it.
 

SeabeeGator

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You think the alums WANT our money to be spent on softball, baseball and gymnastics?

I dont think most pay close attention tomthe budget, or how much is gobbled by admin and nonrevenue sports.

To be clear, I wish all of our sports were being funded well oh, we certainly have the money for it, I just want football fixed first.
I think that I understand investing. If they continued to invest their money with a return to football prominence in mind but instead received a new baseball stadium, they would quit - as they are not getting the value they were hoping for.
 

jdh5484

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He wasnt walking gray lines. He was a cheating mofo who dared them to catch him and penalize him, and they were too scared.

It is funny how some coaches get "above the rules" status. I dount Gene Stallings did even 1/100th the things Bear (or Saban & Co) did but Stallings never achieved "above the rules" level.
Agreed. Too big to fail theory?
 

Theologator

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Until you show me proof I'll stick by my statement. The number 107 does sound familiar but, 59 is way off and that I'm sure of. Possibly 126 allegations and guilty of 107. I know I read every available word on the subject back then and it was a real punch in the gut. Maybe someone can find it in the Sun archives.

Enjoy. To be fair, my memory wasn’t quite accurate either. I thought I remembered the final disposition being lower. And I think my recollection of 7 major violations may have been out of Charlie LaPradd’s comments.

The meta narrative has always been the 100+ allegations, the final number isn’t as newsworthy. It’s still really bad but I don’t like the media’s inaccuracy.

Pell, his assistants, players and boosters would be responsible for what the NCAA first alleged were 107 rules violations and later reduced to 59.

FLORIDA: SCANDAL WITHOUT REPENTENCE


The 16-page letter received today listed 59 rules infractions and also included a provision under which the final year of probation and sanctions would be lifted if Florida complies with N.C.A.A. regulations during the first two years of the penalty.

Florida Receives 3 Years' Probation
 
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Thick&ThinG8r

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First let me thank you for giving me the opportunity to read the name David Berst for the first time in 30 years. The proof is in black and white, guilty of 59 violations but reading the entire article it talks about the open records law and how the newspapers were privy to all the charges before a notice of allegations was sent to the school. That is possibly how I remember the higher number. To me Pell actions were so bad I have no reason to embellish any of his misdeeds, he did fine on his own.
 

Theologator

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First let me thank you for giving me the opportunity to read the name David Berst for the first time in 30 years. The proof is in black and white, guilty of 59 violations but reading the entire article it talks about the open records law and how the newspapers were privy to all the charges before a notice of allegations was sent to the school. That is possibly how I remember the higher number. To me Pell actions were so bad I have no reason to embellish any of his misdeeds, he did fine on his own.

I noticed Berst, too. I hope you saw my edited comments. I didn’t think you were embellishing the numbers and the actual ones don’t alter your point. “Exaggerated” was the wrong word to use, I should have said “a bit high” or something.
 

stephenPE

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First let me thank you for giving me the opportunity to read the name David Berst for the first time in 30 years.
:lmao: At the time of that debacle I was as heavily invested in Fla football as I ever was going back to Graves era. We were FINALLY able to compete with the big guys. We had players. We had stars and we had swagger. If Charlie had been some unique roguish cheating SOB unlike anything before or after I would have been fine with it. He wasn't. He learned from the best and saw what it took to reach equal footing with the elite teams. Now, how did UF get it so bad when others flew under the radar? BECAUSE Athens, Tuscaloosa., Knoxville were closed and mostly rural societies with their own personal cheering sections (local and state press). We had the Gville Sun (except Hairston and Pell despised each other) and Tampa Tribune. We also had UM and FSU with press allegiances to their programs. But back to the other sEc teams. Nobody was talking, much like how the press boys followed our stars in from the 30s to the 70s. They knew what was going on with Mickey Mantle and NFL players but we didnt. Auburn and Bama probably had some unholy alliance or both knew so much on the other they kept it down low. In Fla you had the St Pete times and the Broward Press competing to break this HUGE story of cheating in PellsVille. As for the NCAA they can still kisss my phkikin asss over that garbage. Except for smu we were the hardest hit program ever. And we had no history of cheating either. They effectively killed us for much of a decade with the long drawn out process of investigation, no bowls or TV.
btw many of those players we "cheated to get" were high character young guys and many local or Fla stars. You will NEVER convince me we were out of the ordinary when it came to what Pell did. And the worst part is they KEPT cheating while we gave it up. I guess SOS was our way for God to forgive us and punish the hypocrisy known as dwags, vols, tigers and the polluted tide...............
 

Jax Gator

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Until you show me proof I'll stick by my statement. The number 107 does sound familiar but, 59 is way off and that I'm sure of. Possibly 126 allegations and guilty of 107. I know I read every available word on the subject back then and it was a real punch in the gut. Maybe someone can find it in the Sun archives.

59 was accurate.... According to the newspapers at the time.
 

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