Recruiting NSD 2020 Thread: Zach Evans goes to TCU

MissouriGator

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Winning speaks much louder than words.
I like it though, but it's time to back it up. No more excuses.
 

BMF

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I posted this on Saturday, but it seems all replies from Saturday were wiped out in the 'glitch' in the server.

Anyhow, I found this tidbit about UGA's class and this is a perfect example for the "what's the big deal? We finished in the top 10" crowd. This shows the difference in having a class like UGA's and finishing 6th in the SEC.

This is taken from 247's composite scores, but I'm sure this exercise would be similar using Rivals, 247, or ESPN's scores:

If you cherry pick the top 25 SEC East commits from all SEC East schools besides UGA vs UGA’s #1 ranked class:

Compiling the top 25 commits from the other 6 SEC East schools = 309.72 score

UGA’s class = 313.34
 

SeabeeGator

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I posted this on Saturday, but it seems all replies from Saturday were wiped out in the 'glitch' in the server.

Anyhow, I found this tidbit about UGA's class and this is a perfect example for the "what's the big deal? We finished in the top 10" crowd. This shows the difference in having a class like UGA's and finishing 6th in the SEC.

This is taken from 247's composite scores, but I'm sure this exercise would be similar using Rivals, 247, or ESPN's scores:

If you cherry pick the top 25 SEC East commits from all SEC East schools besides UGA vs UGA’s #1 ranked class:

Compiling the top 25 commits from the other 6 SEC East schools = 309.72 score

UGA’s class = 313.34
I posted something about this but from a different perspective as well. Recruiting must be complimented with personnel management. Remember UGA s 2018 recording setting class? Well, currently, they have 7 top 100 players to our 6. We can debate the transfer portal all we want but I’m guessing they would like fields and that OL who just transferred right now. Fact is, on paper, they appear to have a short term strategy that is less efficient in hindsight. We’ll see how it pans out.
 

Durty South Swamp

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I posted something about this but from a different perspective as well. Recruiting must be complimented with personnel management. Remember UGA s 2018 recording setting class? Well, currently, they have 7 top 100 players to our 6. We can debate the transfer portal all we want but I’m guessing they would like fields and that OL who just transferred right now. Fact is, on paper, they appear to have a short term strategy that is less efficient in hindsight. We’ll see how it pans out.
That and the fact that kirby is dumb as rocks as an actual coach are the only reasons we remain within striking distance. Thank God he's not a good coach as well as a great recruiter.
 

TheDouglas78

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The "intellectually honest" take on the portal is that DM is apparently a good deal better at assessing talent than many and has therefore succeeded in an area in which others have not.

We have been good with a few, no doubt. We can all hope that will continue to be the case, but it's more likely we will regress back to the mean. There are exceptions, like Van Jefferson who wasn't a fit at Ohio State or Greenard who was following the coach who recruited him and he initially played for. But to assume that this trend will continue, that we know more about a kid that has spent at least a year somewhere than where he is coming from just evidence will not support that statement.
 

BMF

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I posted something about this but from a different perspective as well. Recruiting must be complimented with personnel management. Remember UGA s 2018 recording setting class? Well, currently, they have 7 top 100 players to our 6. We can debate the transfer portal all we want but I’m guessing they would like fields and that OL who just transferred right now. Fact is, on paper, they appear to have a short term strategy that is less efficient in hindsight. We’ll see how it pans out.

How does UGA only have 7 top 100 players on their roster? At the end of the day, I'd rather see us sign three or more 5-stars per class - like they have - vs. hoping a few 5-stars transfer in (after they had issues at their previous school) - and this goes for LSU, Ohio State, Alabama, etc's classes as well. If our strategy is to sign a top 10 class (closer to 10, than top 5) and hope other schools have transfers well, it's a bad strategy. We also had a transfer/non-qual issue w/ the 19 class, so they could say the same (our highest ranked player transferred in that group). The post about their 2020 class ranking still stands - it's better than the other 6 SEC East schools top 25 commits combined. That's very telling. I'm not so much worried about the other 5 SEC schools, I'm worried about our recruiting. Wiltfong posted a story projecting where the current 5-star 2021 kids are going - zero projected for UF, 3 projected to UGA (and the usual suspects: Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, LSU, etc). We've beaten this horse to death, but it still holds true: our recruiting needs to improve.
 

Saulgoodman

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I like Dan’s progress, but unless he wins a NC by 2021, he’s behind those two guys. And they both were recruiting much better than him this early after being hired.

Meyer:
Bowling Green. Goes 8-3 and 9-3 after taking over a 2 win team.
Utah. Goes 10-2 and 12-0 after taking over 5 win team.
Florida. Takes over a 7 win team and wins 2 national championships in his first 4 years.
Ohio State. Goes 12-0 after taking over a 6 win team, and wins a national championship 2 years later.

Saban:
LSU. Took over a 3 win team to 8 wins year 1 and won a national championship in year 4.
Alabama. Took over a 6 win team. Only won 7 games year 1, but went 12-2 year 2 and 14-0 with NC year 3. And then went on a run for the ages.

In my younger years I was able to catch the tail end of Spurrier's tenure. Unforutanely I had a good understanding of X and O's and was a die hard college football fan during the Zook years. The high school years were amazing thanks to Urban. It never got old rubbing it in those Bama and Tennessee fans faces. Even after Urban left, I felt that Florida would continue its winning ways, no matter who the coach was. That level of excellence was the expectation I thought I was going to see when I turned the TV on every saturday. For the majority of my short lived life, Florida has been at the top of the college football landscape. Then 2010 started and it was all downhill except for the 2012 season, which was a good year but it was an anomaly for Asschump. I've had to tamper my expectations and as I mature, it has gradually become easier for me to wrap my head around looking at a season realistically. I will be 29 years old this year, and we have won 3 National Championships during my lifetime.

If we are expecting Mullen to be either of those two guys, then I feel like our fan base is just setting him up for failure. Meyer and Saban are arguably the two greatest coaches that college football has ever seen. They're shooting stars. Yes, we are the University of Florida, the flagship school in the state. However, that doesn't mean much when we don't have the right leadership in place. Its starts at the top with the AD, and goes all the way down to Mullen. Right now, I believe we are setting pretty for our leadership and HC. They are two guys that are all in on this university.

I want to win the championship every year but that isn't a realistic expectation. Not even Bama can do it, and they are on the greatest run ever. Firing coaches and starting over every 2, 3, or 4 years isn't the answer either, see how that has worked for Tennessee, plus Bama throughout the 90's and early 2000's. If Mullen can coach/recruit/win at the same level as Urban did, then thank you Jesus. But is that the standard I'm holding him to, no way. Starting this year, I expect to be in the SEC championship game more times than not. Florida as a University and thier fans shoudl have high expecations, they shoudl expect to be in the playoff race at the end of each year. At the same time though, are they realistic given the circumstances and the personnel involved . Not every coach we hire is going to be up for consideration as the GOAT one day.
 

TheDouglas78

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The theory of we will just fix it with transfers, is like an NFL team trying to fix their entire roster with Free Agents. If you want to see how that works look at the Bengals, Redskins, Raiders, etc.... Recruiting is like the NFL draft. And you build your roster through the Draft (ie Recruiting). If you need that final piece or filler pieces in through Free Agency or Transfer Portal that is understandable. But we can't come out of every recruiting cycle going, we will clean it up through transfers because that is a failed philosophy.
 

TheDouglas78

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In my younger years I was able to catch the tail end of Spurrier's tenure. Unforutanely I had a good understanding of X and O's and was a die hard college football fan during the Zook years. The high school years were amazing thanks to Urban. It never got old rubbing it in those Bama and Tennessee fans faces. Even after Urban left, I felt that Florida would continue its winning ways, no matter who the coach was. That level of excellence was the expectation I thought I was going to see when I turned the TV on every saturday. For the majority of my short lived life, Florida has been at the top of the college football landscape. Then 2010 started and it was all downhill except for the 2012 season, which was a good year but it was an anomaly for Asschump. I've had to tamper my expectations and as I mature, it has gradually become easier for me to wrap my head around looking at a season realistically. I will be 29 years old this year, and we have won 3 National Championships during my lifetime.

If we are expecting Mullen to be either of those two guys, then I feel like our fan base is just setting him up for failure. Meyer and Saban are arguably the two greatest coaches that college football has ever seen. They're shooting stars. Yes, we are the University of Florida, the flagship school in the state. However, that doesn't mean much when we don't have the right leadership in place. Its starts at the top with the AD, and goes all the way down to Mullen. Right now, I believe we are setting pretty for our leadership and HC. They are two guys that are all in on this university.

I want to win the championship every year but that isn't a realistic expectation. Not even Bama can do it, and they are on the greatest run ever. Firing coaches and starting over every 2, 3, or 4 years isn't the answer either, see how that has worked for Tennessee, plus Bama throughout the 90's and early 2000's. If Mullen can coach/recruit/win at the same level as Urban did, then thank you Jesus. But is that the standard I'm holding him to, no way. Starting this year, I expect to be in the SEC championship game more times than not. Florida as a University and thier fans shoudl have high expecations, they shoudl expect to be in the playoff race at the end of each year. At the same time though, are they realistic given the circumstances and the personnel involved . Not every coach we hire is going to be up for consideration as the GOAT one day.

The issue is being really in the conversation every year.... our "best" year since 09, was '12 and anyone that watched the product on the field knew every then we were not in the conversation. If you can see what is on the field and know you never had a chance, that is the issue. Spurrier had us in the conversation just about every year, Hall had us in the conversation a few years, but at the end of the day. With pools of talent surrounding UF, the conference, and our national standing this should be the minimum on a regular basis.
 

GatorJ

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We have been good with a few, no doubt. We can all hope that will continue to be the case, but it's more likely we will regress back to the mean. There are exceptions, like Van Jefferson who wasn't a fit at Ohio State or Greenard who was following the coach who recruited him and he initially played for. But to assume that this trend will continue, that we know more about a kid that has spent at least a year somewhere than where he is coming from just evidence will not support that statement.


I don’t know. It’s too early to tell. The NFL is a lot different because free agency can happen after players have been in the league for the 5+ years. Transfers are normally after 1 to 2 years. Most kids won’t even play as true freshman.

We are only one year deep into the transfer portal. We’re going to need a lot more data on until we can properly assess its impact.

There are a few more transfers that came in as well that also positively impacted us.

Now, where I think your idea has some real legs is on the oline. It’s better to recruit them and bring them in and develop them together as a group. I think that’s been proven over and over. Maybe transferring in one of those positions every now and then as a stopgap is fine. But you can’t have an oline comprised of transfers or jucos. It doesn’t work. We saw it over and over with Chump.
 

TheDouglas78

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I don’t know. It’s too early to tell. The NFL is a lot different because free agency can happen after players have been in the league for the 5+ years. Transfers are normally after 1 to 2 years. Most kids won’t even play as true freshman.

We are only one year deep into the transfer portal. We’re going to need a lot more data on until we can properly assess its impact.

There are a few more transfers that came in as well that also positively impacted us.

Now, where I think your idea has some real legs is on the oline. It’s better to recruit them and bring them in and develop them together as a group. I think that’s been proven over and over. Maybe transferring in one of those positions every now and then as a stopgap is fine. But you can’t have an oline comprised of transfers or jucos. It doesn’t work. We saw it over and over with Chump.

Think you were meaning to respond to the other post.
 

Jack o' Diamonds

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Its starts at the top with the AD, and goes all the way down to Mullen. Right now, I believe we are setting pretty for our leadership and HC. They are two guys that are all in on this university.

Actually from what I can tell, it starts with the UAA. If they hamstring the AD then everything is stopped. UAA seems to be all in on the All Sports trophy...
 

SeabeeGator

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How does UGA only have 7 top 100 players on their roster? At the end of the day, I'd rather see us sign three or more 5-stars per class - like they have - vs. hoping a few 5-stars transfer in (after they had issues at their previous school) - and this goes for LSU, Ohio State, Alabama, etc's classes as well. If our strategy is to sign a top 10 class (closer to 10, than top 5) and hope other schools have transfers well, it's a bad strategy. We also had a transfer/non-qual issue w/ the 19 class, so they could say the same (our highest ranked player transferred in that group). The post about their 2020 class ranking still stands - it's better than the other 6 SEC East schools top 25 commits combined. That's very telling. I'm not so much worried about the other 5 SEC schools, I'm worried about our recruiting. Wiltfong posted a story projecting where the current 5-star 2021 kids are going - zero projected for UF, 3 projected to UGA (and the usual suspects: Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, LSU, etc). We've beaten this horse to death, but it still holds true: our recruiting needs to improve.
First, I said 2018 class. That was the one everyone freaked about and in hindsight it doesn’t look as good.

Second, no one is arguing recruiting does not need to improve or that relying solely on transfers is some sustainable strategy.

What is being pointed out is that the argument isn’t bigger than recruiting alone and while UGA excels at one, they are atrocious at the other. 2019, you mention? Well, looks like we might only be down 3 players from class when it all shakes out because CDM stuck by his guys and did not do whatever Smart does. And who knows? Their 2019 and 2020 classes may very well go through the same thing. Fromm’s comments are telling - dude left because he was frustrated with the staff and he’s a good soldier.

Basically - you focus too much on one aspect of it. Recruiting is the most important aspect of personnel management but hanging onto them is nothing to dismiss. Thus far, smart has done very poorly at that.
 

BMF

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First, I said 2018 class. That was the one everyone freaked about and in hindsight it doesn’t look as good.

Second, no one is arguing recruiting does not need to improve or that relying solely on transfers is some sustainable strategy.

What is being pointed out is that the argument isn’t bigger than recruiting alone and while UGA excels at one, they are atrocious at the other. 2019, you mention? Well, looks like we might only be down 3 players from class when it all shakes out because CDM stuck by his guys and did not do whatever Smart does. And who knows? Their 2019 and 2020 classes may very well go through the same thing. Fromm’s comments are telling - dude left because he was frustrated with the staff and he’s a good soldier.

Basically - you focus too much on one aspect of it. Recruiting is the most important aspect of personnel management but hanging onto them is nothing to dismiss. Thus far, smart has done very poorly at that.

This is the recruiting thread.....
 

Ancient Reptile

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I posted this on Saturday, but it seems all replies from Saturday were wiped out in the 'glitch' in the server.

Anyhow, I found this tidbit about UGA's class and this is a perfect example for the "what's the big deal? We finished in the top 10" crowd. This shows the difference in having a class like UGA's and finishing 6th in the SEC.

This is taken from 247's composite scores, but I'm sure this exercise would be similar using Rivals, 247, or ESPN's scores:

If you cherry pick the top 25 SEC East commits from all SEC East schools besides UGA vs UGA’s #1 ranked class:

Compiling the top 25 commits from the other 6 SEC East schools = 309.72 score

UGA’s class = 313.34
Wow! How can Smart waste talent like that?
 

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