Recruiting NSD 2020 Thread: Zach Evans goes to TCU

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So many naive things are said on here. One of them is pointing to UCF vs Auburn as any great accomplishment by UCF.
Another is that Mullen turned a 4 win team into a 10 win team.
Well, he did actually turn a 4 win team into a 10 win team; it just wasn’t really as impressive as it sounds.
 

lizardbreath

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So many naive things are said on here. One of them is pointing to UCF vs Auburn as any great accomplishment by UCF.
Another is that Mullen turned a 4 win team into a 10 win team.

If your definition of a team is "a collection of players" and leaves out such considerations as leadership, commitment, individual AND group player development, conditioning and at least some semblance of a f'n pulse on the sideline come gameday, I would agree that it is naive to say DM turned a 4 win team into a 10 win team. Of course if you don't take those things into consideration you're probably in awe of Kirby Smart. Talent wise, DM turned a 7-6 team into a 10-3 team. Just saying.
 

ThreatMatrix

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Well, he did actually turn a 4 win team into a 10 win team; it just wasn’t really as impressive as it sounds.
The 2017 team was a 5 win team that won four.
The 2018 team was an 8 win team that won 10.

As is the case in years when the head coach is fired 2017 was a bit of an anomaly. We lost to USCe and Mizz* who both had inferior talent but beat UT who had more talent.
As is also the case in a coach's first year 2018 is also a bit of an anomaly. We lost to KY** and Mizz* but beat LSU, FSU*** and MeatChicken****

* Barry Odom had a record of beating more talented teams that were in transition
** Arguably we ran into a buzz saw in KY that year who were playing over their heads and we had yet to discover just how poor our Oline was.
*** ClusterFck that they were
**** A team that kinda lost interest after half time.

Reality is complex and nuanced.
 

bayou gator

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And yes we are way behind on talent. Think about recruits as chicks. A 4* is anywhere from a 7 to a 9. I don’t think anyone is going to scoff at a 7. But a 7 is not a 9, and the top programs are pulling 8s, 9s, and 10s. So you can look past the extra 5lbs, or the crooked tooth, because you’re banging her, but you’re behind on talent.

THIS is hands down the best recruiting post this site has ever seen. Well done, brother! :fistbump:
 

lizardbreath

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talentwise? What year was UF ever a talent wise 7 win team?

Stop being so f'n grouchy Oscar. With a lesser coach, a roster riddled with holes, very little depth at many positions, and zero conditioning, the last MeElwain team was mediocre at best - even if the CC debacle had not occurred and McElgoon hadn't flipped the phuuk out. And there are others here who would fault me for being generous in that assessment. Their reasonable range of expectation was somewhere between 6-6 to 8-5 - I called it in the middle with a loss in a minor bowl game.

If you are really saying that the roster was in place to absolutely insure a 10-3 season in 2018, in the absence of tremendous improvements across the board, you are either being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, or you are a great deal more optimistic about the quality and depth of the roster DM inherited than just about anyone I know. Admittedly, I'm somewhat of a pumper in general, but facts are facts and the fact is that DM inherited a catastrophic schyttfest - no matter how you slice it.
 

TheDouglas78

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Stop being so f'n grouchy Oscar. With a lesser coach, a roster riddled with holes, very little depth at many positions, and zero conditioning, the last MeElwain team was mediocre at best - even if the CC debacle had not occurred and McElgoon hadn't flipped the phuuk out. And there are others here who would fault me for being generous in that assessment. Their reasonable range of expectation was somewhere between 6-6 to 8-5 - I called it in the middle with a loss in a minor bowl game.

If you are really saying that the roster was in place to absolutely insure a 10-3 season in 2018, in the absence of tremendous improvements across the board, you are either being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, or you are a great deal more optimistic about the quality and depth of the roster DM inherited than just about anyone I know. Admittedly, I'm somewhat of a pumper in general, but facts are facts and the fact is that DM inherited a catastrophic schyttfest - no matter how you slice it.

LB, I agree there were issues with the roster, but to say he inherited a catastrophic schyttfest is way underselling the talent that was on the roster as well. Most of those players were not longer removed from being able to make the SEC Championship game the season prior. I agree, that the 2017 team lacked talent and S&C, but to say that we were less talented than the majority of our schedule in 2018 that just goes against the facts. With the talent on the roster in 2018, the already established coaching in Mullen, and the schedule we had in 2018, 10 wins should have been expected (that is before we lost a game to weather).
Northern Co (cancelled)
Charleston Southern
Kentucky
Colorado State
At Tennessee (dumpster fire new head coach)
At Mississippi State (new head coach different system)
LSU
At Vandy
UGA
Missouri
South Crackers
Idaho
At FSU (new coach)

If in the preseason you didn't see 10 wins out of this schedule which was an easier schedule (similar to this season's schedule) with UK, LSU, Miss, and USCe at home. That is why I continue to say, how important the schedule in '18 was to the turnaround. Winning 11 games in '19 where our cancelled game was switched with Miami is more impressive (outside of being completely outcoached/classed by Kirby).
 

EuroGator

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Is this a recruiting thread?

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Oscar the G

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.If you are really saying that the roster was in place to absolutely insure a 10-3 season in 2018, in the absence of tremendous improvements across the board, you are either being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, or you are a great deal more optimistic about the quality and depth of the roster DM inherited than just about anyone I know. Admittedly, I'm somewhat of a pumper in general, but facts are facts and the fact is that DM inherited a catastrophic schyttfest - no matter how you slice it.
I just have a hard time with the whole guessing how talented a team was. Didnt realize you just meant your opinion was a ceiling or average of 7 wins. It's all opinions, I get it. I'm not sure that the talent went from 10 wins in '16, to 7 in '17, and back to 10 in '18. I do think he inherited a ****fest, I just dont believe it was just a talent issue.
 

chferg

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LB, I agree there were issues with the roster, but to say he inherited a catastrophic schyttfest is way underselling the talent that was on the roster as well. Most of those players were not longer removed from being able to make the SEC Championship game the season prior. I agree, that the 2017 team lacked talent and S&C, but to say that we were less talented than the majority of our schedule in 2018 that just goes against the facts. With the talent on the roster in 2018, the already established coaching in Mullen, and the schedule we had in 2018, 10 wins should have been expected (that is before we lost a game to weather).
Northern Co (cancelled)
Charleston Southern
Kentucky
Colorado State
At Tennessee (dumpster fire new head coach)
At Mississippi State (new head coach different system)
LSU
At Vandy
UGA
Missouri
South Crackers
Idaho
At FSU (new coach)

If in the preseason you didn't see 10 wins out of this schedule which was an easier schedule (similar to this season's schedule) with UK, LSU, Miss, and USCe at home. That is why I continue to say, how important the schedule in '18 was to the turnaround. Winning 11 games in '19 where our cancelled game was switched with Miami is more impressive (outside of being completely outcoached/classed by Kirby).

I guess my problem with some of your statement is when you mention a team like Miss St and list that they had a new head coach and new system, why do you not give us the same benefit of the doubt? With that also said, that Miss St game was on the road at a place we don't play well at with a team that had three NFL 1st rounders on defense and a total of five NFL draftees. That Miss St team should have done better that year including probably not losing to us. You say we had more talent but we had 0 first rounders and only five guys drafted as well.

The 2018 schedule had sure wins of Idaho, Vandy, Tennessee, Colorado St, Charleston Southern and in my opinion Kentucky. Kentucky turned out to be a very good football team that ended up beating a good Penn St team in a bowl game so that loss isn't as bad as it turned out to be. So I looked at it that we had 6 wins no matter what but we would need to win a few more and it would be a successful season. We got one on the road at MSU that we thought we wouldnt and we upset LSU. Pounded a poor FSU team and took care of Willie. The season was a success and an "easy-schedule" wasn't the reason. Now if you this coming year's schedule was the one, I'd totally agree. We shouldn't have more than 1-2 losses this year in the regular season.
 

TheDouglas78

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I guess my problem with some of your statement is when you mention a team like Miss St and list that they had a new head coach and new system, why do you not give us the same benefit of the doubt? With that also said, that Miss St game was on the road at a place we don't play well at with a team that had NFL guys on the Dline. That Miss St team should have done better that year including probably not losing to us.

The 2018 schedule had sure wins of Idaho, Vandy, Tennessee, Colorado St, Charleston Southern and in my opinion Kentucky. Kentucky turned out to be a very good football team that ended up beating a good Penn St team in a bowl game so that loss isn't as bad as it turned out to be. So I looked at it that we had 6 wins no matter what but we would need to win a few more and it would be a successful season. We got one on the road at MSU that we thought we wouldnt and we upset LSU. Pounded a poor FSU team and took care of WiLLLLLLLie. The season was a success and an "easy-schedule" wasn't the reason. Now if you this coming year's schedule was the one, I'd totally agree. We shouldn't have more than 1-2 losses this year in the regular season.

Looking at that schedule how many teams were of equal or better talent? LSU, UGA, and FSU. We all know the coaching issues at two of those schools. Are you saying that we should have also lost to the Fighting Muschamps at home? Missouri at home? Tenessee which had been a dumpster fire and was on their 17th coaching candidate? And as I said before, before the season, so also Northern Colorado. Mississippi state we should beat on Talent along, but thought it might be a trap game. LSU and FSU had questionable coaching but expected to lose one of those. UGA was going to be lost just due to their depth and talent.
 

chferg

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Looking at that schedule how many teams were of equal or better talent? LSU, UGA, and FSU. We all know the coaching issues at two of those schools. Are you saying that we should have also lost to the Fighting Muschamps at home? Missouri at home? Tenessee which had been a dumpster fire and was on their 17th coaching candidate? And as I said before, before the season, so also Northern Colorado. Mississippi state we should beat on Talent along, but thought it might be a trap game. LSU and FSU had questionable coaching but expected to lose one of those. UGA was going to be lost just due to their depth and talent.

I'm saying after coming out of a four win season with a new system and a bunch of guys who he had not recruited for that system with a QB who absolutely had one of the worst seasons a QB in the O&B ever had the year prior; expectations should have never been 10 wins. Georgia has all the talent in the world but lost to USCe last year. Talent is only one part of the equation. Miss St absolutely had comparable talent to us that year. Better defensive players and honestly pretty equal offensive talent with a ****ty QB.

UT on paper had more talent than us yet we won that game. You're playing one side of the equation here saying "on paper we should win the games with more talent" but you neglect to give the props due when we don't which on paper we did not have more talent than FSU, LSU, UT, and Miss St
 

SeabeeGator

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I'm saying after coming out of a four win season with a new system and a bunch of guys who he had not recruited for that system with a QB who absolutely had one of the worst seasons a QB in the O&B ever had the year prior; expectations should have never been 10 wins. Georgia has all the talent in the world but lost to USCe last year. Talent is only one part of the equation. Miss St absolutely had comparable talent to us that year. Better defensive players and honestly pretty equal offensive talent with a ****ty QB.

UT on paper had more talent than us yet we won that game. You're playing one side of the equation here saying "on paper we should win the games with more talent" but you neglect to give the props due when we don't which on paper we did not have more talent than FSU, LSU, UT, and Miss St
Doug does not operate in reality sometimes. Totally switching systems absolutely played into the loss against UK. Mizzou was the only WTF loss in 2018.
 

SeabeeGator

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Agree.

We never even bothered taking the field against Mizzou and got pounded because of it.
I dont subscribe to getting beaten twice by a team like some say about UGA in 2018 but I do think it murdered motivation for a mentally soft team. Still should have won going away.
 

TheDouglas78

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I'm saying after coming out of a four win season with a new system and a bunch of guys who he had not recruited for that system with a QB who absolutely had one of the worst seasons a QB in the O&B ever had the year prior; expectations should have never been 10 wins. Georgia has all the talent in the world but lost to USCe last year. Talent is only one part of the equation. Miss St absolutely had comparable talent to us that year. Better defensive players and honestly pretty equal offensive talent with a ****ty QB.

UT on paper had more talent than us yet we won that game. You're playing one side of the equation here saying "on paper we should win the games with more talent" but you neglect to give the props due when we don't which on paper we did not have more talent than FSU, LSU, UT, and Miss St

Ferg, I think you are completely underrating what we had on the roster in 2017 (also the players that returned from suspension). The amount of athletes on the roster. As far as Talent being apart of the equation, true, which is why I brought up Mullen being an upgrade at coaching in the initial post. Georgia has Muschamp 2.0, he is going to put himself into position to lose games it shouldn't, similar to Muschamp did at UF. I think you are incorrect on the talent at Mississippi State, but you are so hard defending your position that you didn't see where I mentioned the Talent at FSU, LSU, and UGA being of equal or better but agree I should have added UT. I know you are a big Mullen guy, but to say that the 10 wins (including a bowl victory) was some kind of great achievement is underselling what was already on the roster.

2014-2018 class average rank:
MSU: 28
UT: 15
UF: 14.2
UK: 27
 

TheDouglas78

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Doug does not operate in reality sometimes. Totally switching systems absolutely played into the loss against UK. Mizzou was the only WTF loss in 2018.

The fact we didn't have anyone to stop the run was a huge part of it, the offense didn't play great, but the defense against the run was awful.
 

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