Recruiting NSD 2020 Thread: Zach Evans goes to TCU

chferg · Feb 13, 2020

TheDouglas78 said:
Ferg, I think you are completely underrating what we had on the roster in 2017 (also the players that returned from suspension). The amount of athletes on the roster. As far as Talent being apart of the equation, true, which is why I brought up Mullen being an upgrade at coaching in the initial post. Georgia has Muschamp 2.0, he is going to put himself into position to lose games it shouldn't, similar to Muschamp did at UF. I think you are incorrect on the talent at Mississippi State, but you are so hard defending your position that you didn't see where I mentioned the Talent at FSU, LSU, and UGA being of equal or better but agree I should have added UT. I know you are a big Mullen guy, but to say that the 10 wins (including a bowl victory) was some kind of great achievement is underselling what was already on the roster.

2014-2018 class average rank:
MSU: 28
UT: 15
UF: 14.2
UK: 27

I get what you're saying but we also agree that Mullen develops guys better than when he got them correct? Champ and Smart do not. So would it be fair to say that Jimmy James players were underdeveloped and never got better than their high school ranking while some of the guys Mullen had were much better? I mean you can get an idea of the talent level of teams but development is just as important.

TheDouglas78 · Feb 13, 2020

chferg said:
I get what you're saying but we also agree that Mullen develops guys better than when he got them correct? Champ and Smart do not. So would it be fair to say that Jimmy James players were underdeveloped and never got better than their high school ranking while some of the guys Mullen had were much better? I mean you can get an idea of the talent level of teams but development is just as important.

I don't that is a question, like I said much earlier in this thread, Mullen is 2nd or 3rd in the SEC as an X's and O's coach. Overall Talent is a factor, development is also another factor. We should win 7/8 games a year on talent alone, 2-3 more games based on development, and the attention to detail is what puts you over the top.

SeabeeGator · Feb 13, 2020

TheDouglas78 said:
I don't that is a question, like I said much earlier in this thread, Mullen is 2nd or 3rd in the SEC as an X's and O's coach. Overall Talent is a factor, development is also another factor. We should win 7/8 games a year on talent alone, 2-3 more games based on development, and the attention to detail is what puts you over the top.

Who you got that’s better at X/Os?

lizardbreath · Feb 13, 2020

TheDouglas78 said:
LB, I agree there were issues with the roster, but to say he inherited a catastrophic schyttfest is way underselling the talent that was on the roster as well. Most of those players were not longer removed from being able to make the SEC Championship game the season prior. I agree, that the 2017 team lacked talent and S&C, but to say that we were less talented than the majority of our schedule in 2018 that just goes against the facts. With the talent on the roster in 2018, the already established coaching in Mullen, and the schedule we had in 2018, 10 wins should have been expected (that is before we lost a game to weather).
Northern Co (cancelled)
Charleston Southern
Kentucky
Colorado State
At Tennessee (dumpster fire new head coach)
At Mississippi State (new head coach different system)
LSU
At Vandy
UGA
Missouri
South Crackers
Idaho
At FSU (new coach)

If in the preseason you didn't see 10 wins out of this schedule which was an easier schedule (similar to this season's schedule) with UK, LSU, Miss, and USCe at home. That is why I continue to say, how important the schedule in '18 was to the turnaround. Winning 11 games in '19 where our cancelled game was switched with Miami is more impressive (outside of being completely outcoached/classed by Kirby).

I don't disagree with your points, but again, a team is more than the sum total of it physical assets. In addition to the roster deficiencies that we both noted, many at key positions, the following conditions were also undeniably at play: The "team psyche" was utterly smashed. I invite anyone with the stomach for it go back and watch the last half of the 2017 season. We were a forlorn wheeze of a football team by any measure. The "culture" was corrupted and the program was viewed as being in a state of ruin nationally - which it was.

Oscar the G said:
I just have a hard time with the whole guessing how talented a team was. Didnt realize you just meant your opinion was a ceiling or average of 7 wins. It's all opinions, I get it. I'm not sure that the talent went from 10 wins in '16, to 7 in '17, and back to 10 in '18. I do think he inherited a ****fest, I just dont believe it was just a talent issue.

I concur. It was a multi-faceted shyttfest that sucked beyond belief on many levels. The program was on life support at the end of the 2017 season, and the prognosis was generally FUBAR, with no guarantees of anything like a speedy recovery. IMO, DM may or may not succeed in getting us all the way back. But fortunately, he has gotten the tubes out our nose and we can now sit up and take nourishment. Stay tuned.

Bait'n Gator · Feb 13, 2020

TheDouglas78 said:
I don't that is a question, like I said much earlier in this thread, Mullen is 2nd or 3rd in the SEC as an X's and O's coach. Overall Talent is a factor, development is also another factor. We should win 7/8 games a year on talent alone, 2-3 more games based on development, and the attention to detail is what puts you over the top.

Who's the 2 X and O coaches that are better?

TheDouglas78 · Feb 13, 2020

Bait'n Gator said:
Who's the 2 X and O coaches that are better?

In 2019, Bama and LSU had a better Xs and Os staff... UGA just had better talent. In 2018, I thought Mullen was 2nd.

TheDouglas78 · Feb 13, 2020

lizardbreath said:
I don't disagree with your points, but again, a team is more than the sum total of it physical assets. In addition to the roster deficiencies that we both noted, many at key positions, the following conditions were also undeniably at play: The "team psyche" was utterly smashed. I invite anyone with the stomach for it go back and watch the last half of the 2017 season. We were a forlorn wheeze of a football team by any measure.

Which is why I listed Mullen being an established Brand is important, especially comparing it to the other new coaches he would be competing against.

BMF · Feb 13, 2020

TheDouglas78 said:
In 2019, Bama and LSU had a better Xs and Os staff... UGA just had better talent. In 2018, I thought Mullen was 2nd.

Brave man for answering that question!

BMF · Feb 13, 2020

chferg said:
I get what you're saying but we also agree that Mullen develops guys better than when he got them correct? Champ and Smart do not.

This is exactly why we need to start recruiting better. IF (that's an all caps IF) this is actually true, Mullen could be the greatest developer of talent....and Smart the worst. But since the talent gap is so large, at this point, it hasn't mattered how good Dan is at one thing (player development) vs. what Smart is good at (recruiting). And by signing the #1 class again, Smart is widening that gap...or trying to force Mullen to be an even better developer of talent. And honestly, the only position that UGA seems to have had a problem with at 'player development' is QB (except when they play UF, of course). Other than QB, their players have seemed to develop just fine - especially on defense (Kirby has nothing to do with coaching the offense, although he may hamstring the play calling). The All-SEC teams and NFL draft have proven that.

TheDouglas78 · Feb 13, 2020

BMF said:
Brave man for answering that question!

I'm sure I'll get some blow back, but mostly from people that don't understand why Mullen isn't first for everything.

TheDouglas78 · Feb 13, 2020

BMF said:
This is exactly why we need to start recruiting better. IF (that's an all caps IF) this is actually true, Mullen could be the greatest developer of talent....and Smart the worst. But since the talent gap is so large, at this point, it hasn't mattered how good Dan is at one thing (player development) vs. what Smart is good at (recruiting). And by signing the #1 class again, Smart is widening that gap...or trying to force Mullen to be an even better developer of talent. And honestly, the only position that UGA seems to have had a problem with at 'player development' is QB (except when they play UF, of course). Other than QB, their players have seemed to develop just fine - especially on defense (Kirby has nothing to do with coaching the offense, although he may hamstring the play calling). The All-SEC teams and NFL draft have proven that.

What should scare people is if Kirby learns to be a CEO well enough to put his ego aside, and get assistants like Orge did this year. With guys that really can call a game and develop talent with the talent gap already in place.

BMF · Feb 13, 2020

TheDouglas78 said:
What should scare people is if Kirby learns to be a CEO well enough to put his ego aside, and get assistants like Orge did this year. With guys that really can call a game and develop talent with the talent gap already in place.

I've been saying the same thing. We've heard for years how bad of a coach Orgeron is. Nobody's laughing now...but they're all saying, "Well now that Burrow is gone..." That may be true, but he won an NC. We heard for years how bad Jimbo was...guess what? National Champion.

The thing w/ Smart is he's winning the East without much of a fight. Winning the East is step 1 in getting to the playoff, where you have a shot at the NC. Until we get to that point, we'll be looking up at them. He hired a new OC, and regardless of people's opinion's of him, it shows he's willing to modernize the offense (I don't remember anyone being too impressed w/ LSU hiring Joe Brady last year either). Anyhow, we'll see. And until we beat them and/or start out-recruiting them they are going to be a problem for us every year.

TheDouglas78 · Feb 13, 2020

BMF said:
I've been saying the same thing. We've heard for years how bad of a coach Orgeron is. Nobody's laughing now...but they're all saying, "Well now that Burrow is gone..." That may be true, but he won an NC. We heard for years how bad Jimbo was...guess what? National Champion.

The thing w/ Smart is he's winning the East without much of a fight. Winning the East is step 1 in getting to the playoff, where you have a shot at the NC. Until we get to that point, we'll be looking up at them. He hired a new OC, and regardless of people's opinion's of him, it shows he's willing to modernize the offense (I don't remember anyone being too impressed w/ LSU hiring Joe Brady last year either). Anyhow, we'll see. And until we beat them and/or start out-recruiting them they are going to be a problem for us every year.

Once you see something works, which he obviously did this year. Why wouldn't he continue, LSU has never had a talent problem just look at all their players in the NFL. Smart is at least changing what he is doing up, he might be not the players coach Orge is but he is forcing change which is the first step.

SeabeeGator · Feb 13, 2020

TheDouglas78 said:
In 2019, Bama and LSU had a better Xs and Os staff... UGA just had better talent. In 2018, I thought Mullen was 2nd.

I think that’s about right. LSU will be interesting this year. Pelini is a heck of a hire but not sure he’s better than Aranda at this point in their careers. LSU’s offensive staff took a major step back.

Slevin · Feb 13, 2020

We went from 28 total Blue chippers on an 85 man roster before Mullen took over to over 50 with 2 1/2 classes with Mullen.

We now sit at:

6 5 stars

47 4 stars

30 3 stars

That’s signed sealed and delivered with an opportunity to still get Evans. Could we do a better job of having elite recruiters? Sure. But I’m also ok with making sure we’ve got guys who can stay and build like Clemson and not jump ship every year either. And now that we have Brewster we have 3 guys who can pull anyone they want. And then Hev who I trust to do his evals, and Billy has resurrected himself as of late.

The talent has been flipped. It’s not arguable. We literally have websites that organize this info for us.

TheDouglas78 · Feb 13, 2020

Slevin said:
We went from 28 total Blue chippers on an 85 man roster before Mullen took over to over 50 with 2 1/2 classes with Mullen.

We now sit at:

6 5 stars

47 4 stars

30 3 stars

That’s signed sealed and delivered with an opportunity to still get Evans. Could we do a better job of having elite recruiters? Sure. But I’m also ok with making sure we’ve got guys who can stay and build like Clemson and not jump ship every year either. And now that we have Brewster we have 3 guys who can pull anyone they want. And then Hev who I trust to do his evals, and Billy has resurrected himself as of late.

The talent has been flipped. It’s not arguable. We literally have websites that organize this info for us.

There's the head bobbing Slevin we all know... glad to see you back.

Durty South Swamp · Feb 13, 2020

anybody got any more of that crootin news?

TheDouglas78 · Feb 13, 2020

Durty South Swamp said:
anybody got any more of that crootin news?

Mrs Durty is recruited a better looking dude and URG said he was available.

GatorJ · Feb 13, 2020

TheDouglas78 said:
Mrs Durty is recruited a better looking dude and URG said he was available.

What an abortion of a sentence

soflagator · Feb 13, 2020

GatorJ said:
What an abortion of a sentence

Recruiting NSD 2020 Thread: Zach Evans goes to TCU

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