Foley is a boss

The Original DC

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I have mixed feelings about Carr and Pell. Yes .. they cheated. No denying it. But I wonder if our program ever becomes relevant had they not cheated. We really became a football school in the 80s and they deserve some credit for that. If you lived through the 70s and early 80s as a Gator you might agree with me on that. It sucked being a Gator then and it stopped sucking when we went on probation. Just saying.

First, nutmeg, I want to congratulate you. This is the first coherent thought you’ve had in the last week. It’s flawed, but it’s coherent and honest.

I’m not sure who brainwashed all you people (Swamp Donkey), but you all are honestly not making a damn bit of sense on Foley. In order to sustain your hatred of Foley, y’all have taken to slobbing the knob of Charley Pell and Bill Carr and making arguments like “oh, 59 NCAA violations weren’t realllllly that bad.”

Let’s try this; both can be true. Foley is the best AD in program history, but he had a hand full of major screwups along the way. Fair?
 

The Original DC

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All the above should really be a huge clue to go ahead and take your defeat and STFU ... but for some reason you keep insisting on being wrong. Maybe you should just go back to gsmb.

Naw, nutmeg, I’m not going anywhere until I’ve pried you from the clutches of Swamp Donkey’s nutsack. You’ll have a tattoo of Jeremy Foley on the small of your back
by the time I’m done with you.
 

TheDouglas78

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78, I know you’re a really good dude but listen to yourself. You’re a pit bull prosecutor when speaking of Foley, then turn into Johnny Cochran for.... Bill Carr? For starters, Carr was gone quicker than a fart. In and out in 6 years. Foley spent a quarter of a century at Florida. I’m sure, in his brief stint, Carr did some good things. But facts are facts. Y’all wanna lambaste Foley for a few crap hires but do backflips trying to defend Carr for hiring a guy who damn near earned the death penalty.

It’s time to let go of the Foley hate, y’all. Come to the light.

I think Foley I didn't bring up his three failures when hired. I did bring up his greatest hire thought Coach Mouse. Pell was a bad hire in regards to the outcome. But the context of the hire needs to be taken into account, UF football was a barren waste land before the Pell hire, and they had to take a chance. Can you say that before any of Foley's hires?

I did say the extensions (especially double extension in one year to Mushcamp) where Foley's worst moves. Along with not having a plan for Meyer even though he was a hired mercenary. Pell was a part of 57 violations without a doubt, but also put Florida in the National landscape. It's a chance that needed to be taken. Similar to the hiring of Norm Sloan which was a chance that needed to be taken, brought some success then ended poorly. But then we got Lon Krueger.

It shows Foley's lack of vision, poor planning for after Spurrier, Meyer, and Muschamp even when he knew a year out he knew for both Meyer and Muschamp they were going to be replaced. The lack of ability to plan for the future which was what Carr did. Foley also didn't have the vision to see the change in the Football landscape with the television money change in the mid 00's and fell behind even the bottom feeders in our conference when it came to facilities. Foley just rode the status quo kept the well machine rolling, made some hires that were excellent, Donovan, Meyer, Mouse, etc..., but his lack of vision in football and basketball the only two sports that are revenue generating fell behind because he lacked vision to see the changing landscape and assumed because we were Florida it would all work out.
 

The Original DC

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I think Foley I didn't bring up his three failures when hired. I did bring up his greatest hire thought Coach Mouse. Pell was a bad hire in regards to the outcome. But the context of the hire needs to be taken into account, UF football was a barren waste land before the Pell hire, and they had to take a chance. Can you say that before any of Foley's hires?

I did say the extensions (especially double extension in one year to Mushcamp) where Foley's worst moves. Along with not having a plan for Meyer even though he was a hired mercenary. Pell was a part of 57 violations without a doubt, but also put Florida in the National landscape. It's a chance that needed to be taken. Similar to the hiring of Norm Sloan which was a chance that needed to be taken, brought some success then ended poorly. But then we got Lon Krueger.

It shows Foley's lack of vision, poor planning for after Spurrier, Meyer, and Muschamp even when he knew a year out he knew for both Meyer and Muschamp they were going to be replaced. The lack of ability to plan for the future which was what Carr did. Foley also didn't have the vision to see the change in the Football landscape with the television money change in the mid 00's and fell behind even the bottom feeders in our conference when it came to facilities. Foley just rode the status quo kept the well machine rolling, made some hires that were excellent, Donovan, Meyer, Mouse, etc..., but his lack of vision in football and basketball the only two sports that are revenue generating fell behind because he lacked vision to see the changing landscape and assumed because we were Florida it would all work out.

“A” for effort.

But again, Foley’s contributions, accomplishments and length of service to the University far outweigh that of any other AD in program history. I have no problem if you like Bill Carr or any other AD. But when you hold those people to the same standards this board holds Foley to, they all have serious blemishes. Foley has blemishes too, but at least Foley has 27 national titles to show for it.
 

TheDouglas78

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“A” for effort.

But again, Foley’s contributions, accomplishments and length of service to the University far outweigh that of any other AD in program history. I have no problem if you like Bill Carr or any other AD. But when you hold those people to the same standards this board holds Foley to, they all have serious blemishes. Foley has blemishes too, but at least Foley has 27 national titles to show for it.

Length of service is a bad measure DC... Which running back had a bigger effect in the NFL Gaye Sayers or Frank Gore... Frank Gore has a longer length of service. But Sayers made an real impact on the game. You keep on saying the board, I'm holding them to the standards of whom made the larger impact on the University and the athletic programs. Foley doesn't have the 27 national titles without the improvements and restructuring done by Carr. You are moving the goalposts now.
 

The Original DC

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Length of service is a bad measure DC... Which running back had a bigger effect in the NFL Gaye Sayers or Frank Gore... Frank Gore has a longer length of service. But Sayers made an real impact on the game. You keep on saying the board, I'm holding them to the standards of whom made the larger impact on the University and the athletic programs. Foley doesn't have the 27 national titles without the improvements and restructuring done by Carr. You are moving the goalposts now.

Length of service slices both ways. More chances to get something wrong, but also more chances to realize great accomplishments. The fact that Foley lasted 25 years is yet another feather in his cap. Carr lasted 6 years, and those 6 years were rife with bad stuff. Again, when you really nitpick the hell out of Carr, and give him the Foley treatment, he was a total train wreck.
 

TheDouglas78

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Length of service slices both ways. More chances to get something wrong, but also more chances to realize great accomplishments. The fact that Foley lasted 25 years is yet another feather in his cap. Carr lasted 6 years, and those 6 years were rife with bad stuff. Again, when you really nitpick the hell out of Carr, and give him the Foley treatment, he was a total train wreck.

How am I nitpicking.. you keep saying that as a default argument... but is it nitpicking to say he lacked vision, which even you agree on. Carr also restructured the NCAA compliance office which Foley benefitted from greatly. Wonder how the Tank Black situation would have happened without the restructuring of the compliance protocols.

As a CEO of a company your biggest asset should be vision of where to take that company in a changing landscape, which as CEO of the athletic department was Foley's greatest flaw. He did benefit greatly from what was built before him, but you will mention the 27 National Championship. Foley was a decent AD, but he was a status quo guy. When it was time for him to actually put a stamp on his term as AD, to make a decision to transform the Athletic Department and making it geared up for the future.. he failed.
 

The Original DC

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How am I nitpicking.. you keep saying that as a default argument... but is it nitpicking to say he lacked vision, which even you agree on. Carr also restructured the NCAA compliance office which Foley benefitted from greatly. Wonder how the Tank Black situation would have happened without the restructuring of the compliance protocols.

As a CEO of a company your biggest asset should be vision of where to take that company in a changing landscape, which as CEO of the athletic department was Foley's greatest flaw. He did benefit greatly from what was built before him, but you will mention the 27 National Championship. Foley was a decent AD, but he was a status quo guy. When it was time for him to actually put a stamp on his term as AD, to make a decision to transform the Athletic Department and making it geared up for the future.. he failed.

We’re not going to agree, and that’s fine.

Frankly, it’s one of the more ridiculous “debates” I’ve ever found myself in. A 6-year AD who hired the biggest cheater (albeit swell guy) in UF history, and presided over 6 years of having our asses handed to us by Georgia, and presided over 0-10-1, and presided over a non-existent hoops program, versus Jeremy Foley.

Let’s stop being silly. If you want Bill Carr as your second best AD in history, fine, good choice. But he’s not in the same hemisphere as Foley.
 

Jack o' Diamonds

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Why?

Foley is the worst AD in the history of all of college athletics?

or

He was the best AD in program history even though he had a few bad hires/decisions?

No!! I haven't followed it because i tire easily of ridiculous pissin' contests...
 

TheDouglas78

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We’re not going to agree, and that’s fine.

Frankly, it’s one of the more ridiculous “debates” I’ve ever found myself in. A 6-year AD who hired the biggest cheater (albeit swell guy) in UF history, and presided over 6 years of having our asses handed to us by Georgia, and presided over 0-10-1, and presided over a non-existent hoops program, versus Jeremy Foley.

Let’s stop being silly. If you want Bill Carr as your second best AD in history, fine, good choice. But he’s not in the same hemisphere as Foley.

Where would the program be without the restructuring that was done under Carr. I think you look at things without the context of where the program and UF athletics overall was at the time. The last effects that are still felt today. The lasting effects of Carr, the foundation of faciltiies and coaching through the 90s and revenue streams that are still filling the budget today. So far the last effective of Foley, Revenue sports facilities still a decade behind. Coaching in non-revenue sports like track, softball, baseball in solid position.

As far as comparisons, Foley hired one of the top coaches in our history, and the worst three disasters in our history. Pell and Hall were solid putting us in the National conversation and in line for a National title if the President didn't self impose. So at the point the program was under Carr he was 2 for 2 in his hires. Foley took over a national recognized brand and had three opportunities and went 1 for 3.

If Foley had ended his career in 08/09 you might have a case, but seeing his lasting effect and how he completely schit the bed due to his lack of vision and planning.
 

TheDouglas78

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No!! I haven't followed it because i tire easily of ridiculous pissin' contests...

It's the offseason, of offseasons... we have to fill the time some how... we don't feel like jerking off to midget porn like you... but URG and T thank you for your business.
 

Woodroe

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I'm not saying he's not the best in history. I'm just saying if he is, then none of them are very good.

Out of all of the accomplishments in the past and the good characteristics of our current program, almost none of them are DUE to Foley. I can't think of one that wouldn't have occurred if we had employed just any other AD. He was present for these accomplishments, yes. You have belabored that point until my face has turned purple. But I was present for all the Nattys that mattered and some of the others. Does that mean I was responsible for them? No.

Now almost every issue that our programs have had since he was AD and most of the current issues (Lack of facilities, great coaches leaving, great assistants leaving, lack of facilities, player issues due to program wide standards not being set, lack of facilities, very poor FB hire where it matters most 3x) AND the lack of more Championships that we should have had, can be directly put on his shoulders.

You keep saying 27, 27, 27.

Here they are:

Men's national championships
  • Basketball (2): 2006 • 2007
  • Football (3): 1996 • 2006 • 2008
  • Golf (2): 1993 • 2001
  • Indoor track and field (3): 2010 • 2011 • 2012
  • Outdoor track and field (3): 2012 • 2013 • 2016
Women's national championships
  • Gymnastics (3): 2013 • 2014 • 2015
  • Indoor track and field (1): 1992
  • Soccer (1): 1998
  • Softball (2): 2014 • 2015
  • Swimming and diving (1): 2010
  • Tennis (6): 1992 • 1996 • 1998 • 2003 • 2011 • 2012

7 of those (Track) came from Mouse who was already in the program before Foley was AD
3 of those (Tennis) are from Andy Brandi.....pre-Foley hire who Foley lost as the winningest coach in NCAA history
3 (the most important by the way) Football. Zero of which Foley gets credit for. If you think Meyer was coming if Machen wasn't here you're deluded.
2 Golf: Alexander (pre-Foley hire)

1 Swimming and Diving Gregg Troy was a Foley hire but only after Foley attempted and failed to hire him previously.......from a High School job. READ that correctly. Foley got turned down from a High School swim coach.......moron
2 Basketball. We'll give him credit for. But from everything I've read, Donovan came despite Foley, not because of him.
3 Tennis. We'll give him some credit. Andy Brandi had this program rolling before Foley ran him off...moron
1 Soccer
2 Softball - Foley almost flubbed this one by making Walton take a paycut to come to UF from Wichita State..moron
3 Gymnastics Good hire, but let a back to back to back coach get away........moron


So all in all, he gets credit for a few inconsequential Championships. He is not the guru you think he is......sorry.
 
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The Original DC

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So all in all, he gets credit for a few inconsequential Championships. He is not the guru you think he is......sorry.

All in all, good post, lots of research instead of winging it, and I agreed with a lot of points you made. Only point I disagree with is “inconsequential championships.” 3 football and 2 back-to-back basketball are anything but inconsequential. If those were all he had won, that would be enough by a mile, the others just enhance the resume’.
 

Woodroe

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All in all, good post, lots of research instead of winging it, and I agreed with a lot of points you made. Only point I disagree with is “inconsequential championships.” 3 football and 2 back-to-back basketball are anything but inconsequential. If those were all he had won, that would be enough by a mile, the others just enhance the resume’.
Those were the ones I was giving him no credit or half credit for. He was getting full credit for soccer.
 

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