Warning: Political Takes COVID & Sports

Theologator · Nov 29, 2020

Maybe this belongs in the PF, but...

To this point we’ve seen a lot of postponements and cancellations of sporting events and severe limitation of live spectators due to COVID concerns.

Has there been a single COVID casualty? A death? A life-altering case of damage or complication? To my albeit limited knowledge, no. So...At the very least, precautions and risk assessments have this far proven themselves to be effective in protecting athletes etc. - to the extent they need protecting.

Thoughts?

MJMGator · Nov 29, 2020

Much ado about nothing.

GatorJB · Nov 29, 2020

It's overkill, and many of the precautions are robbing the schools, players, and fans.

gator1946 · Nov 29, 2020

Nah it's overkill. Or maybe not. Maybe the fact that they've been careful has kept it from getting much worse. Why don't we ask Armstead of the Jags, or Tom Sweeny of the Bills if they think it was overkill.

So that's works out to 1 out of every 800 players even with precautions in place. Those are the ones I know about. This crap is very infectious. Put one person in a combined space with another and they're very likely to get it. What would the ratio be if they hadn't been careful. Anybody with a firm number on that please step up to the plate.

Why don't we ask an otherwise perfectly healthy business associate of mine who's on a non-rebreather mask, sick as a dog, in the hospital, and who will probably but not certainly get out, if it's overkill.

Chicken or Egg.

Signed: Republican not an advocate of crazy levels of shutdown. Advocate for using our brains. COVID fog is not an excuse.

Gator by the Sea · Nov 29, 2020

There’s a really simple solution to all these postponements and cancellations: stop fuchsing testing everybody constantly.

GatorTruth133 · Nov 29, 2020

gator1946 said:
Nah it's overkill. Or maybe not. Maybe the fact that they've been careful has kept it from getting much worse. Why don't we ask Armstead of the Jags, or Tom Sweeny of the Bills if they think it was overkill.

So that's works out to 1 out of every 800 players even with precautions in place. Those are the ones I know about. This crap is very infectious. Put one person in a combined space with another and they're very likely to get it. What would the ratio be if they hadn't been careful. Anybody with a firm number on that please step up to the plate.

Why don't we ask an otherwise perfectly healthy business associate of mine who's on a non-rebreather mask, sick as a dog, in the hospital, and who will probably but not certainly get out, if it's overkill.

Chicken or Egg.

Signed: Republican not an advocate of crazy levels of shutdown. Advocate for using our brains. COVID fog is not an excuse.

Depends on what we are talking about as overkill. The 2-3 weeks missed due to contact tracing depending on the conference, even with multiple negative tests? Yes. The less than .12% chance of death for these students athletes because they wouldn't be playing if they had a co-morbidity? Probably. Coaches, hell yeah, protect them, especially the older ones.

Just because there are exceptions to a rule does not mean the rule shouldn't or doesn't exist.

Also, "slowing the spread" did not mean that this would never spread. The end number was never predicted to change, it just meant it would take longer to get to that number. Like instead of driving 50 mph to go 50 miles, we slow to go 10 mph to still go 50. People will get this thing one way or another. Doesn't mean precautions shouldn't be taken.

And for that less than .12% stat, if anyone hasn't seen me post it, is based on the CDC report from months ago that only 6% of deaths (and this is saying all deaths are actually due to Covid, which spoiler, they aren't, Illinois and New York have admitted as much) have no co-morbidities and as of this morning John Hopkins University shows only 2% of cases ending in death (it's been decreasing for months, I assume that number for the last few has been well under 2% as the 2% is a mean). What is 2% of 6%? .12%.

In summary, depending who we are talking to, there may or may not be overkill. It may also depend on the policy. IF you are going to name people who mathematically are exceptions, then you are advocating for full on lockdowns because the only way to avoid anyone from getting this thing (and this may not work for apartment buildings due to circulated air), is to shut everyone down, no one in, no one out for at least a month. If the precautions, which may or may not be overkill didn't stop them from getting it, nothing would other than the above. If you are not advocating those lockdowns, we have to accept that this thing will spread and people will get it. Not that we want them to, but if you leave your house, you are making the knowing decision anything you do could expose you. The rules aren't the reason your exceptions got the virus. Their choice to leave the house is.

oxrageous · Nov 29, 2020

This topic has been beaten to death. Everyone knows it's a farce at this point, but they feel politically they have to keep going through the motions. If this nonsense continues well into 2021 there is going to be a worldwide revolt.

gator1946 · Nov 29, 2020

GatorTruth133 said:
Depends on what we are talking about as overkill. The 2-3 weeks missed due to contact tracing depending on the conference, even with multiple negative tests? Yes. The less than .12% chance of death for these students athletes because they wouldn't be playing if they had a co-morbidity? Probably. Coaches, hell yeah, protect them, especially the older ones.

Just because there are exceptions to a rule does not mean the rule shouldn't or doesn't exist.

Also, "slowing the spread" did not mean that this would never spread. The end number was never predicted to change, it just meant it would take longer to get to that number. Like instead of driving 50 mph to go 50 miles, we slow to go 10 mph to still go 50. People will get this thing one way or another. Doesn't mean precautions shouldn't be taken.

And for that less than .12% stat, if anyone hasn't seen me post it, is based on the CDC report from months ago that only 6% of deaths (and this is saying all deaths are actually due to Covid, which spoiler, they aren't, Illinois and New York have admitted as much) have no co-morbidities and as of this morning John Hopkins University shows only 2% of cases ending in death (it's been decreasing for months, I assume that number for the last few has been well under 2% as the 2% is a mean). What is 2% of 6%? .12%.

In summary, depending who we are talking to, there may or may not be overkill. It may also depend on the policy. IF you are going to name people who mathematically are exceptions, then you are advocating for full on lockdowns because the only way to avoid anyone from getting this thing (and this may not work for apartment buildings due to circulated air), is to shut everyone down, no one in, no one out for at least a month. If the precautions, which may or may not be overkill didn't stop them from getting it, nothing would other than the above. If you are not advocating those lockdowns, we have to accept that this thing will spread and people will get it. Not that we want them to, but if you leave your house, you are making the knowing decision anything you do could expose you. The rules aren't the reason your exceptions got the virus. Their choice to leave the house is.

Ox I get it. I have gritted my teeth and resisted weighing in. But I've heard the same crap over and over here and finally had enough.

Gatortruth. Pretty thoughtful. The only thing I'll disagree with is that stretching this out has reduced deaths because we finally have a vaccine. By June we'll start to get control of this. Damage to the economy? Because sometimes we overreacted and sometimes we underreacted? That remains to be seen in the later half of 2021.

oxrageous · Nov 29, 2020

gator1946 said:
The only thing I'll disagree with is that stretching this out has reduced deaths because we finally have a vaccine.

You honestly believe that death number?

GatorTruth133 · Nov 29, 2020

gator1946 said:
Ox I get it. I have gritted my teeth and resisted weighing in. But I've heard the same crap over and over here and finally had enough.

Gatortruth. Pretty thoughtful. The only thing I'll disagree with is that stretching this out has reduced deaths because we finally have a vaccine. By June we'll start to get control of this. Damage to the economy? Because sometimes we overreacted and sometimes we underreacted? That remains to be seen in the later half of 2021.

What part of what I said regarding "stretching this out" do you disagree with? I just explained what "slowing the spread" meant. I didn't say whether or not the lockdowns and slowing the spread were a good or bad thing, just that the end number of infections is still the same number. That's like disagreeing with me for saying the Gators colors are Orange and Blue.

Curious to what a vaccine that isn't widely available yet has to do with a death rate that has been dropping since late June/early July. Yes, I have been tracking the hard data using the JHU site, and making my own decisions rather than listening to any political commentary from any side.

gator1946 · Nov 29, 2020

Ox, Do I think it's overstated? Yes. By a lot? No. Depends. if actuarily you were going to die of something else in the next three years and you're counted as a Covid death, yeah it's overstated. Do I believe slowing the spread in combination with the Vaccines reduced the real number, absolutely. You want me to put a number on it. I've said it before, if we'd gotten our act together we'd have good numbers. We didn't and we don't.

gator1946 · Nov 29, 2020

GatorTruth133 said:
What part of what I said regarding "stretching this out" do you disagree with? I just explained what "slowing the spread" meant. I didn't say whether or not the lockdowns and slowing the spread were a good or bad thing, just that the end number of infections is still the same number. That's like disagreeing with me for saying the Gators colors are Orange and Blue.

Curious to what a vaccine that isn't widely available yet has to do with a death rate that has been dropping since late June/early July. Yes, I have been tracking the hard data using the JHU site, and making my own decisions rather than listening to any political commentary from any side.

Missed that part. I'll read you again. Death rates are dropping for a number of reasons, a big one is we have better methods to treat the thing. Both issues, dropping death rates, and Vaccine distribution which is on track (I'm talking to the task force guys that are getting it done) are related not separate. I don't do politics. Politics piss me off when we are trying to make smart decisions. Get the CDC in a room by themselves and they make some dumb decisions. Get the economists in a room by themselves and they make some dumb decisions. Get politicians in any room by themselves or not by themselves, either party, and they can f up a free lunch.

78 · Nov 29, 2020

Useless discussion. Opinions are hardened and aren’t going to change.

gator1946 · Nov 29, 2020

78 said:
Useless discussion. Opinions are hardened and aren’t going to change.

I'm offended. ;)

no1g8r · Nov 29, 2020

The cycle threshold used in the commonly used PCR tests is too high, typically between 37 and 40. This generates a lot of false positives, people with some artifact or fragment that has zero to do with being infected or contagious.

If the cycle threshold was reduced to 35, which many epidemiologists say is still too high, it would reduce cases identified as positive by 50%. This would be more than enough to have kept most teams intact enough to keep playing, rather than cancelling games. If you dropped the cycle threshold to 30, the cases identified as positive drop by 70%, a number at which may push new cases below the level required to call it a pandemic.

Had the 30 cycle threshold been used throughout, most of the lousy policy/lockdown restrictions could have never been justified. It is all politics.

Yes, as with any viral respiratory infection, there will be severe cases where people are hospitalized and die. But most of the people identified as “having COVID” have not had it at all, and of those who have, most cases were relatively mild.

The impact on sports had been significant, the impact on the worlds population has been devastating, especially those who are least susceptible, folks below 40 years old should have been able to carry on with their lives as normal, and folks under 65 in good health should also have had zero restrictions.

The basic flu outbreak recommendations: “wash hands frequently, stay home if you have symptoms, cover nose/mouth when coughing/sneezing” are the most reasonable and effective measures to reduce transmission. Everything else is overkill.

Experts: US COVID-19 positivity rate high due to 'too sensitive' tests

oxrageous · Nov 29, 2020

78 said:
Useless discussion. Opinions are hardened and aren’t going to change.

A lot of opinions have changed as this farce has become more obvious over time, fortunately. It cannot continue much longer without a revolt.

soflagator · Nov 29, 2020

Theologator said:
Maybe this belongs in the PF, but...

To this point we’ve seen a lot of postponements and cancellations of sporting events and severe limitation of live spectators due to COVID concerns.

Has there been a single COVID casualty? A death? A life-altering case of damage or complication? To my albeit limited knowledge, no. So...At the very least, precautions and risk assessments have this far proven themselves to be effective in protecting athletes etc. - to the extent they need protecting.

Thoughts?

I asked this very question in the Basketball thread. Look at Saban last night. He’s even in the high risk category and is sitting at home looking and acting perfectly healthy, and not because of any previous physical display of symptoms, but because for the second time in like 6 weeks he is deemed positive for a virus. It’s a shame how much is getting altered because of all this. And I wonder how long they expect people to just continue to see their team’s seasons getting ruined basically “just because”, without asking these types of questions?

It’s become so commonplace and accepted now that it’s just like, “oh, I guess he can’t play/coach this week”, without even questioning or demanding answers. Insane.

78 · Nov 29, 2020

oxrageous said:
A lot of opinions have changed as this farce has become more obvious over time, fortunately. It cannot continue much longer without a revolt.

That’s awfully hyperbolic.

oxrageous · Nov 29, 2020

78 said:
That’s awfully hyperbolic.

You and I can agree to disagree on this topic. You're still my favorite poster and are high on the list to take over the Chatter upon my death.

78 · Nov 29, 2020

oxrageous said:
You and I can agree to disagree on this topic. You're still my favorite poster and are high on the list to take over the Chatter upon my death.

I better switch to an N95 if I have any chance of outliving you.

Warning: Political Takes COVID & Sports

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