Anyone hold gold in an IRA/401k?

Concrete Helmet

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I'm kinda wondering about this as a strategy going forward on at least my IRA. I guess it would also benefit to switch from a traditional to a ROTH when I do so? ...Can a company distribute gold or other precious metals within a PSP?
 

BMF

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I own USAA Precious Metals mutual fund. I've had it for 10+ years. It was way, way, way, way down up until about 12 months ago. It still hasn't come back anywhere close to where I initially got into it, but I dollar cost averaged over the years and sold about 80% of it recently for a nice profit.
 

78

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Not sure of the existence of employer-sponsored plans that enable the purchase of the commodity, but there are a variety of two-bit IRA custodians that offer it.

Or you can buy it conveniently in an ETF, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. A “store of value” is a hedge to currency risk and, as such, should only be bought in moderate amounts. Bitcoin presents all the usual characteristics of a store of value and is probably a better long-term hold than gold.
 

Detroitgator

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Not sure of the existence of employer-sponsored plans that enable the purchase of the commodity, but there are a variety of two-bit IRA custodians that offer it.

Or you can buy it conveniently in an ETF, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. A “store of value” is a hedge to currency risk and, as such, should only be bought in moderate amounts. Bitcoin presents all the usual characteristics of a store of value and is probably a better long-term hold than gold.
Agreed... see my post regarding JPM being hit for a $1B fine for precious metals price manipulation while simultaneously reporting more than $1B in 2020 profits from... precious metals trading.
 

Concrete Helmet

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but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. A “store of value” is a hedge to currency risk and, as such, should only be bought in moderate
Am I grasping at straws when I say these are the exact reasons why I was considering this move?
One by converting to a Roth I would be "buying down" future taxation, which is only going up, and protecting it's contents with something that isn't subject to inflation(physical gold) but rather "value"? Could be a big upside with the freedom of a Roth?(sooner timeline if market is bonkers or I want the money to invest elsewhere)?

On the note about moderation, that's exactly why I thought my IRA would be a good idea because I would be limited to a maximum contribution(7K)of physical gold.
I already have a gold ETF in my personal science experiment funds and will add a little more outside the IRA along with maybe some Bitcoin.

I should add that I don't foresee my IRA being part of my retirement income but rather a safety deposit box with a tax benefit....am I missing something?
 

Gatormac2112

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Talking about future taxation, that has me very worried. Almost worried enough to take the 30% tax hit now on all my 401k/457b holdings on a Roth conversion because I'm pretty sure where this country is headed taxes will be above 70%. I'm not doing it of course, but the thought had crossed my mind.
 

Concrete Helmet

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Talking about future taxation, that has me very worried. Almost worried enough to take the 30% tax hit now on all my 401k/457b holdings on a Roth conversion because I'm pretty sure where this country is headed taxes will be above 70%. I'm not doing it of course, but the thought had crossed my mind.
I watched a pretty good video of someone explaining the 5 big changes a Biden adm. would mean....projected capital gains tax....43%, income tax....as high as 52%...trade issues and china flu will has us back to 12-14% unemployment by March...Dow16K by March..
I almost thought I was the one talking in the video....
 

Gatormac2112

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I watched a pretty good video of someone explaining the 5 big changes a Biden adm. would mean....projected capital gains tax....43%, income tax....as high as 52%...trade issues and china flu will has us back to 12-14% unemployment by March...Dow16K by March..
I almost thought I was the one talking in the video....
Capital gains 43%? They really do want to run the country into the ditch :headslap:

Heck, whats to stop them from getting rid of Roth all together? Nothing is safe or sacred for these fools.
 

78

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I watched a pretty good video of someone explaining the 5 big changes a Biden adm. would mean....projected capital gains tax....43%, income tax....as high as 52%...trade issues and china flu will has us back to 12-14% unemployment by March...Dow16K by March..
I almost thought I was the one talking in the video....

:lol:

You and I both know that’s neither contextually accurate or reasonable, esp given the absence of a blue wave.

I’d encourage you to take a closer look at Biden’s plan. The focus is on high, high earners, not the middle class. The Biden capital gains hike is on incomes of over $1 million. How many here would be impacted by that?

That said, an increase in LT capital gains tax from 20% to being in sync with an uppermost marginal rate of 39.6% is a political stretch at the very least.

The biggest concern I’d have? A repeal of the expanded standard deduction under the TCJA. That had a positive impact on the middle class.

If the Democrats don’t gain at least a 50-50 “majority” by way of Harris’ tiebreak visa vis the Senate runoffs in Georgia, you’re looking at very little change to the Code.

Crete, there a number of factors to weigh on funding a Roth. Are you ineligible for deductible contributions to a traditional IRA? Will your income be higher or lower in retirement?

But, yes, looking at it as a quasi safety deposit box is a good way to view it. A Roth is a powerful financial tool.
 

Gatormac2112

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:lol:

You and I both know that’s neither contextually accurate or reasonable, esp given the absence of a blue wave.

I’d encourage you to take a closer look at Biden’s plan. The focus is on high, high earners, not the middle class. The Biden capital gains hike is on incomes of over $1 million. How many here would be impacted by that?

That said, an increase in LT capital gains tax from 20% to being in sync with an uppermost marginal rate of 39.6% is a political stretch at the very least.

The biggest concern I’d have? A repeal of the expanded standard deduction under the TCJA. That had a positive impact on the middle class.

If the Democrats don’t gain at least a 50-50 “majority” by way of Harris’ tiebreak visa vis the Senate runoffs in Georgia, you’re looking at very little change to the Code.

Crete, there a number of factors to weigh on funding a Roth. Are you ineligible for deductible contributions to a traditional IRA? Will your income be higher or lower in retirement?

But, yes, looking at it as a quasi safety deposit box is a good way to view it. A Roth is a powerful financial tool.
Im not that worried over the next 4 years, I’m worried about the next 40 years, AKA my retirement years. With as quickly as socialism and communism has become acceptable and desirable to the youth I worry taxes becoming unreasonable is not a possibility but a probability.
 

BMF

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Im not that worried over the next 4 years, I’m worried about the next 40 years, AKA my retirement years. With as quickly as socialism and communism has become acceptable and desirable to the youth I worry taxes becoming unreasonable is not a possibility but a probability.

There's no telling where we're headed w/ future taxes, but it's hard to think it will be equal to or lower than it is now. I make too much to contribute to a Roth. I just turned 50 so I can put $26k into my TSP, which I'm going now. But I'd sure like to find a way to reduce future taxes.

78 is right about a lot of his bullet points. But I don't for a second believe the "only people making $400K or more will get a tax hike". There will be a trickle down to us commoners - such as gas going up a dollar or two a gallon, property taxes rising to help pay for some of their mandates on local and state governments, higher energy costs, etc.
 

Gatormac2112

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There's no telling where we're headed w/ future taxes, but it's hard to think it will be equal to or lower than it is now. I make too much to contribute to a Roth. I just turned 50 so I can put $26k into my TSP, which I'm going now. But I'd sure like to find a way to reduce future taxes.

78 is right about a lot of his bullet points. But I don't for a second believe the "only people making $400K or more will get a tax hike". There will be a trickle down to us commoners - such as gas going up a dollar or two a gallon, property taxes rising to help pay for some of their mandates on local and state governments, higher energy costs, etc.
I make too much to contribute to s Roth as well, but going to start making backdoor conversions for me and my wife. Wish i could do more
 

BMF

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I make too much to contribute to s Roth as well, but going to start making backdoor conversions for me and my wife. Wish i could do more

I have a question about that - my wife and I file separately. Can she do a Roth?

Also, with TSP there's an option for Roth TSP and TSP allows me to put into it. What's the difference in a Roth IRA vs. Roth TSP (Roth TSP is after tax money, just like a regular Roth)?
 

Concrete Helmet

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You and I both know that’s neither contextually accurate or reasonable, esp given the absence of a blue wave.
One word for ya....Yellen....
Another word for...actually 3 UBI/Gov. asst.
And no I have no faith in paid off RINO's and their fraudulent voting machines in Ga.
Other than the housing crash not being as bad this is going to make 2008-2014 look like an island vacation...
 

Concrete Helmet

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But I don't for a second believe the "only people making $400K or more will get a tax hike". There will be a trickle down to us commoners - such as gas going up a dollar or two a gallon, property taxes rising to help pay for some of their mandates on local and state governments, higher energy costs, etc.
So you think they're not being honest when they say they're only going to put the tip in....:rotfl:
 

Concrete Helmet

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I have a question about that - my wife and I file separately. Can she do a Roth?
There are more advantages to NOT being legally married than you can shake a stick at...especially when your wife/partner is the owner of the company...:lol:
 

Gatormac2112

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I have a question about that - my wife and I file separately. Can she do a Roth?

Also, with TSP there's an option for Roth TSP and TSP allows me to put into it. What's the difference in a Roth IRA vs. Roth TSP (Roth TSP is after tax money, just like a regular Roth)?
I hate to say I don't know, this is all new to me as well. Like walking in a mine field
 

78

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I have a question about that - my wife and I file separately. Can she do a Roth?

Also, with TSP there's an option for Roth TSP and TSP allows me to put into it. What's the difference in a Roth IRA vs. Roth TSP (Roth TSP is after tax money, just like a regular Roth)?

Roth contribution rules are more complex for marrieds who file separately. Modified Adjusted Gross Income (AGI + tax exempt interest and certain deductions added back) can’t exceed 10k for either spouse and a working spouse cannot make a contribution on a non-working spouse’s behalf.

The TSP Roth is similar to a Roth account but with an expanded contribution limit on equal footing to a 401(k) and without the ability to raid principal without an IRS penalty. It’s also subject to minimum distribution requirements unlike a Roth IRA.

That’s a fair amount to digest.
 

BMF

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Roth contribution rules are more complex for marrieds who file separately. Modified Adjusted Gross Income (AGI + tax exempt interest and certain deductions added back) can’t exceed 10k for either spouse and a working spouse cannot make a contribution on a non-working spouse’s behalf.

The TSP Roth is similar to a Roth account but with an expanded contribution limit on equal footing to a 401(k) and without the ability to raid principal without an IRS penalty. It’s also subject to minimum distribution requirements unlike a Roth IRA.

That’s a fair amount to digest.

Thanks 78! My biggest question about the TSP Roth - is there an income limit (like w/ the regular Roth - which is $139k in 2020)? I don't think there is, but I've never seen it in writing. I googled it and got mixed findings.
 

78

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Thanks 78! My biggest question about the TSP Roth - is there an income limit (like w/ the regular Roth - which is $139k in 2020)? I don't think there is, but I've never seen it in writing. I googled it and got mixed findings.

There are no income limits. That’s probably the biggest advantage of the Roth TSP over the Roth IRA.
 

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