Other than Pitts, would anybody on Trask’s O start on Mac Jones’ O?

Durty South Swamp · Dec 6, 2020

SGG said:
I disagree.

Toney from his first three seasons wouldn’t start.

This year’s Toney would. He and Pitts are the only ones, though.

this year's toney still jitterbugs in the backfield and gets TFL when running sweeps. Things that bama WR's would be benched for. What he does well is run routes, but he isnt a better route runner than bama's starting WR corps. He's comparable to a few of them, but all of them are bigger, stronger and much faster. Toney is one of the slowest offensive skill players we have.

Look i get it, everyone wants to be excited about him and there's no reason not to be, but he's not better than bama's starting WR corps. No one has thrown out a specific name of a bama WR that he would clearly start over. Ive looked at their starting lineup. I dont see a name I'd swap him with.

GatorTom85 · Dec 6, 2020

Durty South Swamp said:
all of bamas starting receivers are better than toney, and much faster. This isn't hard, take off the rose glasses.

That's just not true! Is Toney going to be an every down receiver with Alabama? Not likely at all. But he has finally developed a knack for getting open in space as a slot receiver that is both surprising and impressive. The fact that Toney also has the athleticism to also run effectively in congested space makes him particularly effective in that third down receiver role made famous in the NFL by guys like Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, Wayne Crebet, etc. That role is a very specialized skill that Toney has finally grown into and I think it will serve him very well at the next level. So I stand by my statement: Alabama would love them some Toney this year! (as would any other team with a QB accurate and decisive enough to throw regularly into those congested windows)

Detroitgator · Dec 6, 2020

Trask.

EuroGator · Dec 6, 2020

Durty South Swamp said:
you do realize that using the owned emote for your own response post makes you look desperate right? Still love you though bro.

I used a very benign burn and then accented it with the owned emoji. The humor may not appeal to one such as yourself with sophisticated tastes, but I stand by the juxtaposition created.

:owned:

divits · Dec 6, 2020

78 said:
Good thread, Alex. It underscores the advantage Bama has coming in. It’s almost discouraging to compare the teams position by position. Bama is Bama. They recruit the cream of the crop. They hold a decisive advantage on paper.

Euro makes a good point. With Waddle out, it makes the Bama receiving corps less lethal from a speed standpoint. Regardless, Sarkisian will take what the defense gives, and our defense gives lots of choices. I worry more about stopping the Bama run. We lack size and physicality, just the kind of opponent Bama, with that huge offensive line, can exploit to no end.

We’ll need turnovers, big plays and a big night from Trask, which won’t happen unless the OL allows him time to get set in the pocket. Pitts will have an extra someone on him because he’s that dangerous. Can Bama shut down all 6-feet-6 of him? It’s why we play the game.

Pretty much agree. I see Nagee Harris running roughshod over our defense getting to the second level and watching our undersized and terrible tackling LBs and DBs pinballing off him all the way to his 200 yard rushing day. And when we're not getting embarrassed by their run game we'll be getting smoked by their passing game. Meanwhile, we'll get stuffed at the LOS in our run game but will be able to score some points passing, but unfortunately it won't be enough.

There is just no way you can be one dimensional or have a bad defense and win a national title. Specially when you have to go through a team like Alabama to get it. Give us last year's defense with this offense and we'd have a legit shot.

Detroitgator · Dec 6, 2020

Durty South Swamp said:
this year's toney still jitterbugs in the backfield and gets TFL when running sweeps. Things that bama WR's would be benched for. What he does well is run routes, but he isnt a better route runner than bama's starting WR corps. He's comparable to a few of them, but all of them are bigger, stronger and much faster. Toney is one of the slowest offensive skill players we have.

Look i get it, everyone wants to be excited about him and there's no reason not to be, but he's not better than bama's starting WR corps. No one has thrown out a specific name of a bama WR that he would clearly start over. Ive looked at their starting lineup. I dont see a name I'd swap him with.

I agree on all, but I don't think that's so much Toney's fault as on coaching. Prior to this year, we only used Toney for plays (passing or sweeps) behind the LOS. Then, this year, it was, "WOW! We are FINALLY hitting him in open space, where he belongs!" Then a about two games ago (2 before yesterday), we started doing the "behind the LOS" crap again which caused me to scream at the TV... we should never use him behind the LOS again. We proved that we can fool people once in awhile by having Copeland successfully run the sweep yesterday... keep hitting Toney in open space with mismatches, period. If I wasn't clear ( :lol:

), no, Toney would not be a starting receiver at Bama.

AlexDaGator · Dec 6, 2020

‘Bama’s starting WR are DeVonta Smith and John Metchie. Ours are Grimes and Toney.

Smith is waaaaay batter than anybody we have or anybody we’ve had recently. People are talking about him getting Heisman votes. He recently broke Doering’s SEC TD record.

Metchie moved up following the injury to Waddle and has been outstanding in his own right.

Sure, Grimes is big and sure, Toney is slippery, but neither of those guys start over Smith or Metchie. The ‘Bama receivers have better hands, are better route runners, and are faster.

I agree with Durty, Toney would play for ‘Bama, but not start.

I’m not asking if our best RB is better than their 3rd RB or if our best WR is better than their 3rd WR or if our starting LT might be able to start at G for ‘Bama. I’m looking at position by position.

Frankly, it’s depressing.

Alex.

Concrete Helmet · Dec 6, 2020

AlexDaGator said:
I’m looking for a position by position comparison, like Pierce v Najee Harris, Forsythe v Alex Leatherwood, Grimes v DeVonta Smith, etc.

A better way to look at it is how good would the rest of our offense be with even 2 or 3 of their starting offensive lineman? Although I agree their guys might be a little better across the board how would they look with 2 or 3 of our offensive lineman?

QB's are a toss up but Trask doesn't have the advantage of a consistent, quality running game to mix in effective play action. They're a little better at RB but it hard to run where's there no hole. We are better and deeper at TE and WR.

Concrete Helmet · Dec 6, 2020

AlexDaGator said:
I’m not asking if our best RB is better than their 3rd RB or if our best WR is better than their 3rd WR or if our starting LT might be able to start at G for ‘Bama. I’m looking at position by position.

Again the MOST important part is NONE of our offensive linemen would start for them....which is the biggest reason their offensive players look better than ours do. It's been said that defenses win championships which we know is only partially true...the bigger part of the equation is Offensive lines win championships.

Durty South Swamp · Dec 6, 2020

AlexDaGator said:
‘Bama’s starting WR are DeVonta Smith and John Metchie. Ours are Grimes and Toney.

Smith is waaaaay batter than anybody we have or anybody we’ve had recently. People are talking about him getting Heisman votes. He recently broke Doering’s SEC TD record.

Metchie moved up following the injury to Waddle and has been outstanding in his own right.

Sure, Grimes is big and sure, Toney is slippery, but neither of those guys start over Smith or Metchie. The ‘Bama receivers have better hands, are better route runners, and are faster.

I agree with Durty, Toney would play for ‘Bama, but not start.

I’m not asking if our best RB is better than their 3rd RB or if our best WR is better than their 3rd WR or if our starting LT might be able to start at G for ‘Bama. I’m looking at position by position.

Frankly, it’s depressing.

Alex.

we all know it. Some prefer to delude themselves though.

Durty South Swamp · Dec 6, 2020

GatorTom85 said:
That's just not true! Is Toney going to be an every down receiver with Alabama? Not likely at all. But he has finally developed a knack for getting open in space as a slot receiver that is both surprising and impressive. The fact that Toney also has the athleticism to also run effectively in congested space makes him particularly effective in that third down receiver role made famous in the NFL by guys like Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, Wayne Crebet, etc. That role is a very specialized skill that Toney has finally grown into and I think it will serve him very well at the next level. So I stand by my statement: Alabama would love them some Toney this year! (as would any other team with a QB accurate and decisive enough to throw regularly into those congested windows)

The question was who would start for bama. You said it yourself, toney is a situational player, not an every down one. That is the definition of someone who isn't the starter. But keep going.

GatorTom85 · Dec 7, 2020

Durty South Swamp said:
The question was who would start for bama. You said it yourself, toney is a situational player, not an every down one. That is the definition of someone who isn't the starter. But keep going.

Actually, if you want to get that technical, "starting" actually means the team that starts the game and really has nothing to do with the number if downs (though it is admittedly implied). A set of receivers in the "starting rotation", however, can be larger than the standard 2-3 receiver configurations might imply especially with tight ends taken into account. My position is toney would be in that starting rotation as a slot specialist when they are in certain formations.

As such, he wouldn't be backing anyone up on the depth chart - thus "starting".

neteng · Dec 7, 2020

Durty South Swamp said:
bc we are gonna get skull fckd by bama... and I was hitting the johnny black pretty hard last night lol

speaking of getting skull fuchsed and hitting it hard last night ...

Swamp Donkey · Dec 7, 2020

SGG said:
King Saban would disembowel him the first time he whiffed a block

I wouldn't mind seeing that

Swamp Donkey · Dec 7, 2020

Durty South Swamp said:
you do realize that using the owned emote for your own response post makes you look desperate right? Still love you though bro.

this is actually a drastic improvement for Euro. his sarcasm level used to be Vulcan.

TheDouglas78 · Dec 7, 2020

Pitts will be the best skilled position player on the field, and outside of that, Alabama is better at every other skill position (outside of qb) and line.

Swamp Donkey · Dec 7, 2020

Concrete Helmet said:
A better way to look at it is how good would the rest of our offense be with even 2 or 3 of their starting offensive lineman?.

it wouldn't change in the slightest because we'd still have Dan Mullen as the offensive coordinator calling stupid run plays.

I think the running backs and quarterback average 7 yd to carry when EJ's on the field.

AlexDaGator · Dec 7, 2020

GatorTom85 said:
Actually, if you want to get that technical, "starting" actually means the team that starts the game and really has nothing to do with the number if downs (though it is admittedly implied). A set of receivers in the "starting rotation", however, can be larger than the standard 2-3 receiver configurations might imply especially with tight ends taken into account. My position is toney would be in that starting rotation as a slot specialist when they are in certain formations.

As such, he wouldn't be backing anyone up on the depth chart - thus "starting".

Toney isn't a situational player for us who comes in for certain packages. He's one of our top two receivers. You're missing the point. Compare our top 2 to their top 2. If you want a comparison to 'Bama's third WR, our guy would be Copeland, not Toney. I'm sure both teams have a "starting" goal line H-Back too but arguing that our starting guard could start at goal line jumbo formation H-Back for them is pointless.

Devonta Smith is easily the best WR in college football. He's playing better than Jerry Jeudy and Henry Ruggs, both of whom were picked in the mid-first round last year (well ahead of our guys, Jefferson, Swain, and Cleveland). Neither Toney nor Grimes would get drafted ahead of Smith or Metchie (or Waddle). Smith and Waddle will both be first round picks next year. Metchie is only a sophomore, but when he goes, he'll probably be a first rounder too. Toney and Grimes won't be.

We like our guys because they're our guys and we watch them play and we love the Gators. I get it. I'm trying to be realistic about any advantages Trask might have. The only one is Pitts.

Alex.

TheDouglas78 · Dec 7, 2020

AlexDaGator said:
Toney isn't a situational player for us who comes in for certain packages. He's one of our top two receivers. You're missing the point. Compare our top 2 to their top 2. If you want a comparison to 'Bama's third WR, our guy would be Copeland, not Toney. I'm sure both teams have a "starting" goal line H-Back too but arguing that our starting guard could start at goal line jumbo formation H-Back for them is pointless.

Devonta Smith is easily the best WR in college football. He's playing better than Jerry Jeudy and Henry Ruggs, both of whom were picked in the mid-first round last year (well ahead of our guys, Jefferson, Swain, and Cleveland). Neither Toney nor Grimes would get drafted ahead of Smith or Metchie (or Waddle). Smith and Waddle will both be first round picks next year. Metchie is only a sophomore, but when he goes, he'll probably be a first rounder too. Toney and Grimes won't be.

We like our guys because they're our guys and we watch them play and we love the Gators. I get it. I'm trying to be realistic about any advantages Trask might have. The only one is Pitts.

Alex.

Dovnta Smith is a top 10 pick, Waddle is still listed as a top 25 pick (even after the injury) and Metchie is currently a solid 2nd rounder on most boards in the last week. I haven't seen a Gator receiver in any two round mock drafts in the last two weeks, and zero in first round mock drafts.

AlexDaGator · Dec 7, 2020

TheDouglas78 said:
Dovnta Smith is a top 10 pick, Waddle is still listed as a top 25 pick (even after the injury) and Metchie is currently a solid 2nd rounder on most boards in the last week. I haven't seen a Gator receiver in any two round mock drafts in the last two weeks, and zero in first round mock drafts.

Alex.

Other than Pitts, would anybody on Trask’s O start on Mac Jones’ O?

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