Mullen-SOS-Urban

ThreatMatrix said:

Take it up with the man himself. .

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He got confused by Nebraska once and adapted. (LSU beat us once playing the same defense.)

He got confused a little bit by Saban at first, then he beat him with Gamecock talent.

Today's defenses are laughable garbage. Even Saban, mostly because these low IQ athletic directors have continued to hire every member of his defensive staff until the carcass was picked clean of even the rotting bits that no sane person should want.

The east is terrible this year, probably close to the worst I can remember and our cross divisional foe is having a record bad year at 3-5 currently. We played exactly 2 decent teams so far and are 1-1. It looks like we will play 3 games against good teams and just about everyone expects us to end up 1-2 in the end, and that's with the best QB we've had since Tebow. Dan is doing a decent job but lets not pretend he's some kind of miracle man because if he was we wouldn't have lost to A&M and we would actually feel like we were as likely to win as lose in the SECCG.

lagator said:

The east is terrible this year, probably close to the worst I can remember and our cross divisional foe is having a record bad year at 3-5 currently. We played exactly 2 decent teams so far and are 1-1. It looks like we will play 3 games against good teams and just about everyone expects us to end up 1-2 in the end, and that's with the best QB we've had since Tebow. Dan is doing a decent job but lets not pretend he's some kind of miracle man because if he was we wouldn't have lost to A&M and we would actually feel like we were as likely to win as lose in the SECCG.

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We played a two game season in virtually every year, and dropped a frustrating, often last-second-kick, game to a West opponent in more than half of his years. Aside from the vols, who were great in the 90s(98-22 overall, 1 NC), it was a different world entirely that people have somehow forgotten. He are some stats from the 90s, regarding the East and Lsu and Auburn, since we played them every year.

From 1990-1999

Aub 72-40 with 4 losing seasons
uga 72-43 with 4 losing seasons
Lsu 54-58 with 7 losing seasons
Uk 44-69 with 3 total bowl appearances
Usce 41-67 with 1 bowl appearance
Vu 33-77

We keep dissecting this again and again, only to come to the same reality. We played a weaker conference schedule and a great fsu. Now we play better teams in conference(especially if we make Atl) and a garbage fsu. We went into nearly every game against the noles feeling we were very unlikely to win, but always felt good going into Birmingham or Atlanta. The only real difference is we don't get a ring for going 10-2(the old 9-2) like we did then because the better teams are within the SEC. And the closest thing we played to this year's Alabama team was '92 Alabama(loss), '93 fsu(loss), '94 Aub(loss), '96 fsu(*loss), '99 fsu(loss), '00 fsu(blowout loss) and '00 um(blowout loss).

soflagator said:

We played a two game season in virtually every year, and dropped a frustrating, often last-second-kick, game to a West opponent in more than half of his years. Aside from the vols, who were great in the 90s(98-22 overall, 1 NC), it was a different world entirely that people have somehow forgotten. He are some stats from the 90s, regarding the East and Lsu and Auburn, since we played them every year.

From 1990-1999

Aub 72-40 with 4 losing seasons
uga 72-43 with 4 losing seasons
Lsu 54-58 with 7 losing seasons
Uk 44-69 with 3 total bowl appearances
Usce 41-67 with 1 bowl appearance
Vu 33-77

We keep dissecting this again and again, only to come to the same reality. We played a weaker conference schedule and a great fsu. Now we play better teams in conference(especially if we make Atl) and a garbage fsu. We went into nearly every game against the noles feeling we were very unlikely to win, but always felt good going into Birmingham or Atlanta. The only real difference is we don't get a ring for going 10-2(the old 9-2) like we did then because the better teams are within the SEC. And the closest thing we played to this year's Alabama team was '92 Alabama(loss), '93 fsu(loss), '94 Aub(loss), '96 fsu(*loss), '99 fsu(loss), '00 fsu(blowout loss) and '00 um(blowout loss).

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Spurrier's record against FSU while at UF was 5-8 and 1, and the one tie was was a 1 in a million type of event. I think you are the only one who remembers us feeling like we had no hope against the unbeatable $hit-noles. I always expected a win, which we got regularly although not as often as we wanted. Meanwhile half the East is firing their coach. There's no such thing as a weaker conference schedule than we currently have and FSU is at an all-time low since before Boobie.

The way I see it is you can list as many stats as you want, but until Mullen wins a championship he is a better version of his M name-sake brederen and not even in the discussion with SOS or Urban in my opinion .

lagator said:

Spurrier's record against FSU while at UF was 5-8 and 1, and the one tie was was a 1 in a million type of event. I think you are the only one who remembers us feeling like we had no hope against the unbeatable $hit-noles. I always expected a win, which we got regularly although not as often as we wanted. Meanwhile half the East is firing their coach. There's no such thing as a weaker conference schedule than we currently have and FSU is at an all-time low since before Boobie.

The way I see it is you can list as many stats as you want, but until Mullen wins a championship he is a better version of his M name-sake brederen and not even in the discussion with SOS or Urban in my opinion .

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But the East, and Lsu and occasionally Aub was in fact as weak or weaker than what we have now. It’s not about stats. It’s about wins and losses. Not debatable. And again, as for the championship, if the best team we play isn’t in conference, then we can lose to them and still claim a title. We did in 5 of our 7 SEC Championship seasons. Otherwise we win 2 SEC rings in 12 years under Spurrier. In 2 of our SEC Championship years we were blown out 45-3 and 30-7 by the best team we faced that year. Again not debatable.

But to be clear, I don't really disagree with you that he doesn't belong in the same discussion as Meyer and Spurrier. I just don't think it's nearly as far away as some insist, nor do I think virtually every accomplishment should be discounted the way it is. Different coaches, different eras, different circumstances entirely. Hopefully comparable results all said.

soflagator said:

But the East, and Lsu and occasionally Aub was in fact as weak or weaker than what we have now. It’s not about stats. It’s about wins and losses. Not debatable. And again, as for the championship, if the best team we play isn’t in conference, then we can lose to them and still claim a title. We did in 5 of our 7 SEC Championship seasons. Otherwise we win 2 SEC rings in 12 years under Spurrier. In 2 of our SEC Championship years we were blown out 45-3 and 30-7 by the best team we faced that year. Again not debatable.

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That 45-3 loss was to Tinerc in '90 when UF was ineligible to win the title. Coincidentally, it was the first Gator game I ever attended.

soflagator said:

But the East, and Lsu and occasionally Aub was in fact as weak or weaker than what we have now. It’s not about stats. It’s about wins and losses. Not debatable. And again, as for the championship, if the best team we play isn’t in conference, then we can lose to them and still claim a title. We did in 5 of our 7 SEC Championship seasons. Otherwise we win 2 SEC rings in 12 years under Spurrier. In 2 of our SEC Championship years we were blown out 45-3 and 30-7 by the best team we faced that year. Again not debatable.

But to be clear, I don't really disagree with you that he doesn't belong in the same discussion as Meyer and Spurrier. I just don't think it's nearly as far away as some insist, nor do I think virtually every accomplishment should be discounted the way it is. Different coaches, different eras, different circumstances entirely. Hopefully comparable results all said.

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I hear what you are saying, but if we can't count an SEC championships any year we lost to FSU does that mean we automatically can claim one any year we beat them? How about 1996? Our NC doesn't count because we lost to FSU? Obviously that's not how it works. You know how I know how many championships Spurrier won? I can count the banners and I've never seen one with an asterisk on it with fine print that says this doesn't really count because we lost to FSU this year.

Mullen needs to win championships period or he will be just another failed UF coach but with a better looking record. It doesn't mean he has to win one this year, but it couldn't hurt

lagator said:

I hear what you are saying, but if we can't count an SEC championships any year we lost to FSU does that mean we automatically can claim one any year we beat them? How about 1996? Our NC doesn't count because we lost to FSU? Obviously that's not how it works. You know how I know how many championships Spurrier won? I can count the banners and I've never seen one with an asterisk on it with fine print that says this doesn't really count because we lost to FSU this year.

Mullen needs to win championships period or he will be just another failed UF coach but with a better looking record. It doesn't mean he has to win one this year, but it couldn't hurt

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Of course we can count them. We won our conference and deserve that designation. The point is if the dominant team at the time wasn't in said conference, then it makes it a lot easier. One of my first posts in this thread stated how ridiculous it would be to Mullen's record vs fsu to Spurrier's record against them. It's much easier to win that game now, and much tougher to win the SEC given the current climate. He still needs to do it. No disagreement there.

soflagator said:

But the East, and Lsu and occasionally Aub was in fact as weak or weaker than what we have now. It’s not about stats. It’s about wins and losses. Not debatable. And again, as for the championship, if the best team we play isn’t in conference, then we can lose to them and still claim a title. We did in 5 of our 7 SEC Championship seasons. Otherwise we win 2 SEC rings in 12 years under Spurrier. In 2 of our SEC Championship years we were blown out 45-3 and 30-7 by the best team we faced that year. Again not debatable.

But to be clear, I don't really disagree with you that he doesn't belong in the same discussion as Meyer and Spurrier. I just don't think it's nearly as far away as some insist, nor do I think virtually every accomplishment should be discounted the way it is. Different coaches, different eras, different circumstances entirely. Hopefully comparable results all said.

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You shut your lying mouth! Steve Spurrier was a god among men and never lost a game or disappointed anyone. He never got frustrated and punted on 3rd down. He never did anything questionable and should not be questioned! This FSU apologist should be banned. Clearly he's a homer for that dirty rotten school out west.

/sarcasm

78 said:

I see an apple, an orange and a grapefruit.

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And all three of them have vitamin W which makes the Gator grow.

78 said:

Somebody on the CBS pre-game called Mullen a quarterback whisperer yesterday. What it did is reinforce for me the paradox that is Dan Mullen. Few coaches are as revered — or rejected — for the way they go about their business or the results generated from it.

Mullen has an 800-pound gorilla hanging from his neck, which may help explain the curved posture. A win over Bama would help pry it loose.

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That is one giant monkey to be yanked from his back.

In the 90s the SEC EAST alone had two top 5 teams (Might Gators and Inbreds) and a (mostly) top 10 team (Ugly).

78 said:

Back to the OP, the intent is to surprise with how favorably Mullen stacks up. What it does for me is remind how remarkable the turnaround was under Spurrier. He took over what was easily the worst of the three legacy rosters and instantly made us relevant, changing the way the college game was played in the process.

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Spurrier cast out so many Gator program demons he should have two statues in front of BHG, one as a player (already exists, obv) and one as a visor tossing HBC.

Every coach that followed, past/present/future, are driving on the roads that Spurrier paved.

Swamp Donkey said:

In the 90s the SEC EAST alone had two top 5 teams (Might Gators and Inbreds) and a (mostly) top 10 team (Ugly).

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The bulldogs were as follows
4-7
9-3
10-2
5-6
6-4-1
6-6
5-6
10-2
9-3
8-4

If by “mostly”, you mean 2 total Top-10 finishes, then yes, they were “mostly” Top-10. Almost as many as losing season seasons(3). Practically the Patriots of their day. It’s a wonder we ever beat them. And btw, during one of their two good seasons(1997), they spanked us in Jax.

As for tennessee, yes, they were a great team much of that span. But even they finished in the Top-10 only 6 times out of those 10 years, and Top-5 only twice in 10 years. But generally, that was a huge matchup.

The other “Top” team in the East was UF. Though as luck would have it, during that entire stretch, we managed to never have to play ourselves once. Incredible, I know. So our presence in the East doesn’t do a whole lot to improve the argument that our path was tougher.

So let’s see. We’ve covered Lsu with their 7 losing seasons. Aub with its 4 losing seasons mixed with a few good years in ‘93 & ‘94(beat us both times). The bulldogs and their stellar two seasons(one in which they beat us and cost us Atl), and the fact tennessee was largely a great team. Think that about does it.

Anyway back to dispelling my original argument that it was typically a two game season(ut and fsu) during most of Spurrier’s time. Watch out for Mr Tipton, though. He’s a tough one.

Yes, it was nice have Ray Goof a few years. Unfortunately for us Fooley decided to pay them back by hiring his understudy.

And the only reason Tinerc struggled was us. They beat every team in the country save us regularly.

Weird response coming from a guy who keeps pimping 3 and 4 loss coaches to now be critical of one.

Swamp Donkey said:

Yes, it was nice have Ray Goof a few years. Unfortunately for us Fooley decided to pay them back by hiring his understudy.

And the only reason Tinerc struggled was us. They beat every team in the country save us regularly.

Weird response coming from a guy who keeps pimping 3 and 4 loss coaches to now be critical of one.

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I think this is my 8th post in this thread. Pretty sure in each case, I've recognized the vols as being a great team during those years, with maybe '94 being the exception. They are part of what I've said was largely a 2 game schedule every year for us. It was your contention that the SEC, outside of the vols, was better than it is now. When I list those teams' annual records during that stretch, I'm apparently stoned.

We can deny all we want, but any UF or vol fan living in the 90s would tell you that the East was over before October even began. There just wasn't another legitimate threat. And when there were a couple of stout West teams('92Msu, '93-94 Aub, '97 Lsu, '99 Ala) that we played during the season, we could--and often did--lose to them, but still held the tie-breaker over ut, giving us the nod. Neither that or finishing with a loss against the noles prevented us from accomplishing our stated goal of winning the conference. But trust me, as someone who grew up around tons of nole(previously bulldog) and cane fans, none of them cared an ounce about us winning our beloved SEC, and we were often laughed at as they played for it all in 6 of those 10 years.

There's a reason that a 1-loss SEC Champ wasn't in consideration for the NC in 1991, the undefeated conference champ was an underdog in '92, and a 1-loss UF needed two miracles to get back in the discussion in 1996. That wouldn't happen today, and for good reason. The SEC as we know it today, was viewed wildly different then. For that matter, as recent as 2004 an undefeated Auburn team was left out and in 2006, until USC lost for the second time to UCLA, a 1-loss SEC Champ wasn't getting into the NC game that year either, and was still almost skipped over.

No one is denying Spurrier's run(maybe KC, he had this weird hate for Steve ). It's simply saying that the landscape has changed, and the conference is tougher to win. No different than saying Mullen should be fired on the spot if he lost to fsu this year, or last, or 2018. Things change. Spurrier will always be the father of UF football to me. He just wasn't flawless, and isn't--in hindsight--as critiqued as Mullen is. And also, Mullen isn't directly following either of those two. He's following two of the most disastrous hires we've ever made, took over a trainwreck program and has us winning in fun fashion again as we head to Atlanta. Yet, despite that, the guys gets dismissed and called names by the same fans that just sat through 2010-2017. It's bizarre and fairly ridiculous.

soflagator said:

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No one is denying Spurrier's run(maybe KC, he had this weird hate for Steve ). It's simply saying that the landscape has changed, and the conference is tougher to win. No different than saying Mullen should be fired on the spot if he lost to fsu this year, or last, or 2018. Things change. Spurrier will always be the father of UF football to me. He just wasn't flawless, and isn't--in hindsight--as critiqued as Mullen is. And also, Mullen isn't directly following either of those two. He's following two of the most disastrous hires we've ever made, took over a trainwreck program and has us winning in fun fashion again as we head to Atlanta. Yet, despite that, the guys gets dismissed and called names by the same fans that just sat through 2010-2017. It's bizarre and fairly ridiculous.

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I have no desire to get between you and Swonk and on that issue, by all means, please carry on. I did have a thought to add in regards to CDM. I think the abuse he gets is in many ways because of the two clowns he followed which is of course odd because he's clearly not them. Chimp and Butters so soured so many of us that we became conditioned to expect the worst. It carried over to CDM when he was hired because it was quickly pointed out "What's he ever won?" and because he wasn't Kelly, or Frost, or Taggart, - thank God on all three of those guys - or whoever someone else wanted, so at best his hire was viewed as "meh" when we all wanted a "wow." His recruiting thus far has tempered the optimism we all might otherwise have had as each year there has been measurable improvement. Win the next two games and the number of naysayers will drop considerably. Win three or four, and they'll disappear completely (though still ready to leap forward, of course, should circumstances change).
The down side of success is that it raises expectations. UF is among the dozen or so schools where the fan base is not satisfied unless they are in the championship hunt every year and winning a few along the way. Some of those schools are justified in feeling that way - UF included - and some are just delusional (Tinerc springs to mind), but all of them are tough on the coaches who haven't added the significant hardware to the trophy case.

The difference is that Spurrier had no glaring weakness that we could bytch about. Mullen has a few that are maddening. He doesn't recruit well enough. He doesn't fire/demote assistants. And, arguably, he takes his foot off the gas when we're ahead. The only complaint you could level against Spurrier is that he didn't beat FSU enough.

ThreatMatrix said:

The difference is that Spurrier had no glaring weakness that we could bytch about. Mullen has a few that are maddening. He doesn't recruit well enough. He doesn't fire/demote assistants. And, arguably, he takes his foot off the gas when we're ahead. The only complaint you could level against Spurrier is that he didn't beat FSU enough.

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SOS was stubborn as hell. We lost to granny clampett in the Sugar Bowl because he refused to adjust. Refused to use the shotgun until Danny was almost killed. He was capable of eventually adapting and we’ve seen some of that this year from Mullen with the offense. Is he willing to see his DC and lack of elite recruiters is going to be his downfall? Time will tell.

ThreatMatrix said:

The difference is that Spurrier had no glaring weakness that we could bytch about. .

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Well... the defense was mediocre to atrocious, but SOS never took his foot off the gas so it did not much matter.