Space Flight Updates - Russia pullingout of ISS?

deuce

Founding Member
"Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war."
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
6,891
6,162
Founding Member
Good Static Fire today...... Might do a Flight tomorrow... SN11 might go all the way!

First Booster is fully stacked in High Bay... it's massive, don't see how they are going to transport that Beast.
 

deuce

Founding Member
"Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war."
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
6,891
6,162
Founding Member
Artist idea of Booster and Star Ship

booster.png
 

ThreatMatrix

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Aug 28, 2014
16,540
26,088
I think they are shooting for tomorrow. Gonna be last flight for a bit. After that they will roll out the first booster BN1 and do pressure and maybe static fire tests- no launch.
Then SN15?
 

ThreatMatrix

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Aug 28, 2014
16,540
26,088
They launched SN11 in the fog this AM. And it went boom in the worst way - the way that we can't see.
Elon tweeted that "something" happened after engine relight while landing. Speculation is that they activated the FTS system just before TD. There appeared to be a much larger than usual debris field.
 

Gatordiddy

Member in good standing
Lifetime Member
Jul 23, 2014
11,719
26,477
They launched SN11 in the fog this AM. And it went boom in the worst way - the way that we can't see.
Elon tweeted that "something" happened after engine relight while landing. Speculation is that they activated the FTS system just before TD. There appeared to be a much larger than usual debris field.

that's not good... ouch
 

ThreatMatrix

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Aug 28, 2014
16,540
26,088
They previously stated that they would start booster testing after SN11. However Elon tweeted that SN15 will be rolled out in a few days.

Interesting side note. Firstly Elon said they were going to try for suborbital in July. He must have meant July 2022. LOL

Also the down select for HLS happens next month. If you don't know NASA selected three vendors last year to do preliminary work. And then that was suppose to be pruned down to two in Feb but they extended it to April. Of the three vendors (SpaceX, BO, Dynetics) the SpaceX proposal has always been considered by NASA the most risky. SpaceX would have been well served to demonstrate a landing prior to that down select. There is some concern that due to budget constraints they will only down select to one.
In review:

1) Blue Origin National Team: By far the worst option. BO uses an Apollo style Lunar Lander.
It has three parts;
a) The Transfer Element - The TE just gets the HLS in the proper orbit to land and then it is thrown away.
b) The Descent Element - Exactly like Apollo the DE has the engines and landing gear. It is also thrown away.
c) The Ascent Element - Again exactly like Apollo it is the living quarters and ride back to lunar orbit.

The BO HLS is a six decade old concept. It's the least reusable. It provides no new capabilities. Also the ladder to get in and out is three times as tall as the Apollo Lunar Lander making for troublesome ingress/egress. However it is led by the team with the most powerful lobbyists. It's a shoe-in to be selected. Undoubtedly it will be the most expensive solution.​

2) Dynetics: Hands down the best solution. Their HLS system "The Alpaca" is innovative, reusable and versatile.
  • The crew compartment is slung under the landing bed. Among other things that makes ingress/egress very easy. Also because of the configuration they can land different modules and leave them on the surface. They can sling whatever they want under the lander; habitats, labs, ISRU's supply containers, rovers, etc. (up to 15 tons).
  • The lander only discards fuel tanks and the rest is reusable.
  • Unlike Apollo ( and BO?) it will have an airlock.
  • Reusability: Because it only loses it's drop tanks it can be refitted for landing with only one additional launch. BO would require at least two much heavier payloads.

3) SpaceX: SpaceX plans to modify a Starship for Lunar operation. Many hurdles to overcome.
  • Of course they are still in rocket development.
  • They have to master orbital refueling which has never been done before.
  • They have to demonstrate landing on unprepared ground and as such can't use the Raptor engines under the skirt.
  • They have to use an elevator to get astronauts and cargo to the surface.
Lots of challenges. It does have the ability to deliver 100 tons to the surface though which is 7x what anyone else can do. Even if NASA does not select SpaceX it would behoove them to continue development. If they are able to deliver 100 tons to the Lunar Surface they will not lack for customers.​

All options have a similar problem and that is refueling. Long term it is hoped that they can make hydrogen from Lunar ice. However Starship uses methane so they have a problem right there. Hydrogen is a difficult fuel to use for space travel. It boils off fast and has to be kept at cryogenic temperatures. Plus being a very small atom it leaks through everything. SpaceX has been given a contract by NASA to demonstrate hydrogen fuel transfer for use by anybody.
 
Last edited:

ThreatMatrix

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Aug 28, 2014
16,540
26,088
BTW. "Hoppy" the first Starship prototype to fly has taken up permanent residence at the Launch pad. It has been used as shade for workers during lunch. It has been lit up with multicolor LED's. And it generally just sits around and watches the launches and landings. It holds a special place in the hearts of the "Texas Tank Watchers". It even has it's own twitter where it comments on the coming and goings of it's brethrens. Good for a laugh.
 

ThreatMatrix

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Aug 28, 2014
16,540
26,088
For what it's worth SN15 is sitting on the launch stand. Supposedly it has 100's of upgrades including redesigned Raptors. It looks like they did an ambient air pressure test today. They will need to do a cryo test with LN and test the thrust puck.
Then remove the trust puck ram.
Install Raptors.
Static Fire (maybe a couple of different static fires).
Launch
Land?

No clue if the new raptors solve any of the problems they've been having though Elon seems to think so. The Raptors appear to be more stream lined and missing equipment they may have needed for initial testing. Also there is the whole autogenous pressurization thing. No clue if they've gone back to that. We do know that most (all) of it is constructed from the new 4mm alloy. However in the next lot they should be going to 3mm.
They tend not to do any explosive tests over the weekend. So figure a day for cryo (Monday). A day to install (Tuesday). I think the fastest they've performed SF after Raptor install is 3 days (Friday). Then the following week they will probably start teasing with road closures for launch but they always lose a couple of days due to weather. So check back in two weeks.

Elon must smoke a ton of dope. Lately he's been tweeting about catching the Starship in a net.
 

deuce

Founding Member
"Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war."
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
6,891
6,162
Founding Member
Elon is pushing too hard.......

It will wear him down..... if Bernie doesn't get him first...

I like the vertical landing but unloading a vertical ship is slow and hazardous.
 

deuce

Founding Member
"Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war."
Lifetime Member
Jun 11, 2014
6,891
6,162
Founding Member
I'm shocked by the display of common sense!
 

ThreatMatrix

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Aug 28, 2014
16,540
26,088
Bottom line: NASA couldn't afford any of the bids due to budget cuts. But SpaceX said "no prob, fam, pays us whenever" so SpaceX was NASAs only choice.
 

ThreatMatrix

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Aug 28, 2014
16,540
26,088
SN11 Post Mortem:

SN11 blew up mid air attempting to relight engines for landing.

1) A fire was spotted in the engine bay. This is not unusual to see fires in the engine bay for various reasons however this one was different. The flame was a little more energetic and persistent and surrounded the main methane pipe that delivers fuel. (pipe goes from upper right to lower left).
Starship-SN11-033021-webcast-SpaceX-ascent-2-edit.jpg

2) The fire fried the avionics that control the turbo pump which allowed a build up of fuel in the preburner.

3) When you try to light too much fuel you get a hard start. Sometimes you survive that. But if there's too much fuel, there's too much pressure and the whole pump assembly explodes.

SN15 will have a new version of raptors that supposedly have hundreds of fixes.
 

g8tr72

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Jun 8, 2016
12,595
14,730
It was visually phenomenal. I've seen alot of night shuttle launches but that was awesome! It was so different than the old shuttle launches.
 

ThreatMatrix

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Aug 28, 2014
16,540
26,088

Bridenstein may go down in history as the best NASA administrator evah. He made logical decisions including being a champion of commercial partners and eliminating cost plus contracts. It's unfortunate that he is leaving and somewhat telling that he decided to leave after the election. An indication that the new administration does not share his views. Nelson is more of an old-space sort. Plus having been a senator he leans toward congress having absolute control of how the money is spent which leads to billions of dollars of waste as senators look at the NASA budget as job programs for their districts.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Help Users

You haven't joined any rooms.

    Birthdays

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    31,642
    Messages
    1,615,698
    Members
    1,642
    Latest member
    fishermb