Foley's larger failure: Facilities or Butters?

BNAG8R said:

It’s time for everyone to realize that football has seen its glory days, and that it is going the way of gladiator battles and bare knuckle brawling. The kids are into e-sports now - watching other kids play video games. Football games are too hot, too long, no cell signal, too dangerous. Timmy and Tommy don’t play pop warner anymore because mom worries about CTE.

It’s dead, boys and girls. Time to deal.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

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Bottomline is it was harder to get into

BNAG8R said:

Disagree. Both of my kids were accepted, and they made a BIG deal about being legacy for my first (the second isn’t going to UF). She had good grades, good test scores, but I know kids with better that didn’t get in. I think legacy IS a factor.

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I am happy your legacy student got in. What year did they get in?

'78 said:

There you have it. Qualified minority students don't do the Chomp.

My fiance's boys are half-Filippino by virtue of their dad. They are both headed to UF on scholastic scholarships. They won't miss a game.

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Now I see where you are coming from. I am glad your fiance's kids are getting in. We need more students like them. The problem is the increasing number of empty seats on the student side due to students admitted that could care less about football.

jhbyrd said:

Now I see where you are coming from. I am glad your fiance's kids are getting in. We need more students like them. The problem is the increasing number of empty seats on the student side due to students admitted that could care less about football.

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If you're arguing that the academic standards are being pushed through the stratosphere, you'll get no argument here.

If you're arguing Dr. Fuchs has a personal agenda to reduce the number of pro-Gators enrollees, I can't buy it.

'78 said:

If you're arguing that the academic standards are being pushed through the stratosphere, you'll get no argument here.

If you're arguing Dr. Fuchs has a personal agenda to reduce the number of pro-Gators enrollees, I can't buy it.

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His agenda is to move UF to #5 on the US News public university list. To meet the USNews requirements you increase GPA/test requirements, reduce the time to graduate and increase diversity.

Since white males take longer to graduate they have been affected, especially if they are Florida residents. Many white male UF football fans that used get in UF are now going to FSU after UF rejects them.

'78 said:

Applicant: I have a 4.2 GPA, National Merit Honor Society, student government, head of the local Meals on Wheels chapter. I also serve part-time as pastor at my church.

Dr. Fuchs: Finish this sentence. It's great to be a _______.

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That’s not completely true

jhbyrd said:

His agenda is to move UF to #5 on the US News public university list. To meet the USNews requirements you increase GPA/test requirements, reduce the time to graduate and increase diversity.

Since white males take longer to graduate they have been affected, especially if they are Florida residents. Many white male UF football fans that used get in UF are now going to FSU after UF rejects them.

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You position the initiative as diabolical. It can only be an opinion. Unless.

BNAG8R said:

Disagree. Both of my kids were accepted, and they made a BIG deal about being legacy for my first (the second isn’t going to UF). She had good grades, good test scores, but I know kids with better that didn’t get in. I think legacy IS a factor.

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That's fantastic and many congratulations to you and your kids!!!

Unfortunately that is absolutely not what I have seen. Three families in the area where I live, three kids with GPA's decidedly over 4.0, really good test scores and off the chart activities, all six parents are UF alum, all season ticket holders and donors, one dad is also the president of his fraternity alumni group and oversees the current group and is also in thick with UF for recruiting for his company; kids were accepted to every... single... college they applied to, except UF. Sadly I thought all three kids were worthy on their own merit, but being legacies? Automatic shoe-ins. Nope. I'm really happy that it worked out for you and yours though. Fantastic accomplishment!

MADGator said:

That's fantastic and many congratulations to you and your kids!!!

Unfortunately that is absolutely not what I have seen. Three families in the area where I live, three kids with GPA's decidedly over 4.0, really good test scores and off the chart activities, all six parents are UF alum, all season ticket holders and donors, one dad is also the president of his fraternity alumni group and oversees the current group and is also in thick with UF for recruiting for his company; kids were accepted to every... single... college they applied to, except UF. Sadly I thought all three kids were worthy on their own merit, but being legacies? Automatic shoe-ins. Nope. I'm really happy that it worked out for you and yours though. Fantastic accomplishment!

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Winner!
78 cannot see beyond his situation. His fiance's son is already a UF fan. That is who you want.

Just because his fiance's child is a Gator fan he thinks every other non legacy student admitted will go to games like his fiance's son. The legacy kids would more likely go to games especially the white legacy males who have been pulling for UF their whole life. Of course white males are still getting in, it is just harder for them to get in than the other groups as they take longer to graduate.

'78 said:

You position the initiative as diabolical. It can only be an opinion. Unless.

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If white male legacies were not getting hit harder I would agree with you. Unfortunately they are.

jhbyrd said:

Winner!
78 cannot see beyond his situation. His fiance's son is already a UF fan. That is who you want.

Just because his fiance's child is a Gator fan he thinks every other non legacy student admitted will go to games like his fiance's son. The legacy kids would more likely go to games especially the white legacy males who have been pulling for UF their whole life. Of course white males are still getting in, it is just harder for them to get in than the other groups as they take longer to graduate.

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Don't flatter yourself. I'm able to look beyond my own situation. I'm not clear you are able to.

You've presented an opinion, a theory that can't be substantiated under normal circumstances.

The reason The Swamp has suffered in the past 8-10 years is a combination of the demands on the students and the poor quality of play on the field--I would guess about 80% being the shyt show on the field.
A student will sacrifice study time for the experience and excitement of hanging with their friends and witnessing a great win; that time can be made up in other ways because it is worth the thrill.
We really haven't done that since 2008.
Put something exciting on the field, win games, and The Swamp will fill....and the top-level recruits will come. It's as simple as that.
No need for winding conspiracies.

'78 said:

You've presented an opinion, a theory that can't be substantiated under normal circumstances.

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Actually the rankings do consider time to graduate and males do on average take longer to graduate. Not a theory a fact.

"Men have showed a steep decline in their on-time graduation rate, as compared to women, according to the study. From the 1945-1949 to the 1980-1984 birth cohorts, men’s on-time graduation rate declined from 66.63 percent to 60.76 percent."

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Schools try to manipulate things to improve their ranking. Vanderbilt for example sends out letters to students inviting them to apply so they can reject them and thus improving their rejection ratio. No theory as I have seen the letter.

From US News:

Graduation and retention rates (22.5 percent): The higher the proportion of first-year students who return to campus for sophomore year and eventually graduate, the better a school is apt to be at offering the classes and services that students need to succeed.





Student selectivity (12.5 percent): A school's academic atmosphere is determined in part by students' abilities and ambitions.

This measure has three components. U.S. News factors in the admissions test scores for all enrollees who took the SAT critical reading and math portions and the composite ACT (65 percent of the selectivity score).

U.S. News also considers the proportion of enrolled first-year students at National Universities and National Liberal Arts Colleges who graduated in the top 10 percent of their high school classes or the proportion of enrolled first-year students at Regional Universities and Regional Colleges who graduated in the top quarter of their classes (25 percent).

The third component is the acceptance rate or the ratio of students admitted to applicants (10 percent).


If a school told U.S. News that it included all students with scores in its reported SAT and ACT scores, then those scores were counted fully in the rankings and were not footnoted.

If less than 75 percent of the fall 2016 entering class submitted SAT and ACT scores, their test scores were discounted by 15 percent in the ranking calculations. U.S. News also used this policy in the last two editions of the rankings.



Graduation rate performance (7.5 percent): This indicator of added value shows the effect of the college's programs and policies on the graduation rate after controlling for spending and student characteristics, such as standardized test scores, high school class standing and the proportion receiving Pell Grants. U.S. News measures the difference between a school's six-year graduation rate for the class that entered in 2010 and the rate U.S. News had predicted for the class. New this year, the proportion of science, technology, engineering and math – STEM – degrees out of the total degrees granted are included for the National Universities ranking category only.

If the school's actual graduation rate for the 2010 entering class is higher than the rate U.S. News predicted for that same class, then the college is enhancing achievement or overperforming. If a school's actual graduation rate is lower than the rate that U.S. News predicted, then it is underperforming.

jhbyrd said:

Actually the rankings do consider time to graduate and males do on average take longer to graduate. Not a theory a fact.

The person who told me he congratulated the President for reaching improved ranking and was told #10 was already in the bag they were shooting for #5 had no reason to make it up.

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Blah blah blah. Our diversity ranking is nowhere near what you cited. I looked it up. We're 45 spots up the ladder from where you said, nine ahead of FSU.

Furthermore, your logic is so focused on white males it can't possibly account for all the changes noted about 20 posts ago. Females make up 54% of the student population. You think they don't go to football games, too?

Frankly, I've grown tired of this silly debate. The seats are empty not because of Dr. Fuchs' obsession with magazine rankings or how long it takes the average white male to graduate or some sort of multi-cultural shift, but because we've sucked at football too long.

'78 said:

Frankly, I've grown tired of this silly debate.

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He is easy to dismiss.

'78 said:

Blah blah blah. Our diversity ranking is nowhere near what you cited. I looked it up. We're 45 spots up the ladder from where you said, nine ahead of FSU.

Furthermore, your logic is so focused on white males it can't possibly account for all the changes noted about 20 posts ago. Females make up 54% of the student population. You think they don't go to football games, too?

Frankly, I've grown tired of this silly debate. The seats are empty not because of Dr. Fuchs' obsession with magazine rankings or how long it takes the average white male to graduate or some sort of multi-cultural shift, but because we've sucked at football too long.

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I am sure you are tired of being wrong. You probably did not know that UF recently fired admissions personnel as people were upset at how it was being handled . Blowback.

I cited our Diversity ranking? I talked about the graduation rate of males as you can see above. Sucking is also a factor but not the only one. Atleast you got that right. Fewer Gator fans being admitted is another.

MJMGator said:

I've been around for years and I've never seen him happy except when we fire sh*tty coaches.

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Why are you only happy when we fire coaches Donkey. Why weren't you happy when UF won two national championships in basketball?

jhbyrd said:

Why are you only happy when we fire coaches Donkey. Why weren't you happy when UF won two national championships in basketball?

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Im happy because the coaches we fired we shytty coaches who needed fired. Im less than happy when we replace the 21-16 coach we just fired with another 21-16 coach, then replace the second coach with a 33-39 coach.

I was happy when we won in basketball, mostly bc football was dominating. I dont give a shyt about the other sports. It is of course nice when we are winning but it doesnt offset the decade of terrible football Fooley gave us, and continues to give us.

Less than happy donkeys and other gators or gator fans is why seats at the swamp are empty and why we make 40 million or more less revenue than we should.






We arent going to get in an arms race.

Guaranteed 4 year schollies, that was our counter.