Gator Basketball B-Ball Transfers: Stone, Okauru, and Ballard

NVGator · Mar 29, 2019

Marine1 said:
Never personal. We’re all fans and I’ve never called anyone a bad fan. I always acknowledge the different perspectives. Keeps it interesting. Board wouldn’t be the same without the give and take.

I really don’t care if anyone likes any of our coaches. I respond to posts about our coaches and teams that I disagree with. I’m content with keeping it to that. But it frequently goes off the rails because of the whole pumper v dumper thing. Personally I have never read anyone actually state they are the “better fan”. But it always ends up with one side accusing the other side of believing such.

I take the “sports bar atmosphere” literally and enjoy the give and take. I don’t know about you but that’s how we do it in the bars I hang out in. Never personal. Plus I barely know who I’m talking to half the time. You could post in 3 other threads next and I would be giving you 3 likes.

This page alone, you’ve implied you’re a better fan. Your words, not mine. Hell, you have a stickied thread mocking your fandom over others. But, yeah... that’s not who you are.

Marine1 said:
I’ll support him until he’s not here anymore then I will support the next guy. I’ll go to all the games I can and watch the rest on TV. Always a party. Always a good time. We just like Gator sports.

Marine1 said:
But I’ll still be bellied up at the Salty Dog pre and post game acting like I’m 20 again. Sorry to disappoint.

Oscar the G · Mar 29, 2019

NVGator said:
Some of us see a better road, and see when things are bad.

what's the better road?

Marine1 · Mar 29, 2019

NVGator said:
This page alone, you’ve implied you’re a better fan. Your words, not mine. Hell, you have a stickied thread mocking your fandom over others. But, yeah... that’s not who you are.

Yes I plead guilty of being a fan. I admit to enjoying going to the games. That part has never changed.

Great White Buffalo · Mar 29, 2019

NVGator said:
Tom Izzo doesn't have that problem.

A couple of fun facts for you: White is one of only 10 coaches in the country to win at least one tourney game each of the last three years. Further, Mike White has won 1 more tourney game in the last 3 years than Izzo has won in the last 4 years! Izzo must have a culture of losing, correct?

stephenPE · Mar 29, 2019

Pesky damned facts. Here is another fact. Izzo has been at Mich St since Bill Walton was winning titles with Wooden. He owns the school. He has had time to imprint his culture on the school. White's mountain to climb is named Billy Donovan. Maybe not Mt Everest but a big mofo for sure. Injuries to Egbunu and then those that followed have screwed us up big time...........and still we got to an elite 8 and made the dance three times. Only Calimari in the SEC has done that the last three years in a row. Maybe White aint the answer and will crash and burn with the new guys coming it..........Maybe NV is the final four whisperer. Maybe we will suck till the next hired gun is signed to coach. I will cross that bridge when it comes in to view.............right now MW is our coach and has a VERY good class coming in. Im all in. Does that make me a better fan like Marine (great fan we need more like him).............no it just makes me a more positive and optimistic fan..........the old "in all kinds of weather" fan we have sung about for the last 6 decades. Injuries have fckd this team up the last few years............that is it in a nut shell ..........and one more thing...........I may not be brilliant about economic policy or geopolitical military actions or even investment information or law BUT I do know basketball having played tons of it and watched tons of it and taught it and even coached it..............It is a beautiful game and when played correctly with good team chemistry and leadership along with good talent is a wonder to behold............there is not just one way to coach it.........Im pulling for the white guy in this case...........;)

Marine1 · Mar 29, 2019

NVGator said:
Tom Izzo doesn't have that problem.

Jevon Bess, Marvin Clark, Russell Byrd, Brandon Kearney, Garrick Sherman, Tom Herzog, Maurice Joseph, Brandon Cotton and Doug Davis.

I guess other than them he doesn’t have that problem.

Marine1 · Mar 29, 2019

Marine1 said:
Jevon Bess, Marvin Clark, Russell Byrd, Brandon Kearney, Garrick Sherman, Tom Herzog, Maurice Joseph, Brandon Cotton and Doug Davis.

I guess other than them he doesn’t have that problem.

Some decent players in there that couldn’t find minutes so they transferred. It does indeed happen elsewhere.

TLB · Mar 29, 2019

NVGator said:
Culture. Who set the tone for the culture? Who’s responsible for the culture?

Transfers no surprise to White as he seeks culture improvement

The football coach? I'm pretty sure Muschamp kept telling us it was on him and he'd get it fixed.

NVGator said:
Tom Izzo doesn't have that problem.

False comparison. White doesn't get upset or yell at people. Check the tape, ask a ref...doesn't happen.

rogdochar · Mar 29, 2019

Oscar the G said:
what's the better road?

The road less graveled.

NVGator · Apr 1, 2019

Great White Buffalo said:
A couple of fun facts for you: White is one of only 10 coaches in the country to win at least one tourney game each of the last three years. Further, Mike White has won 1 more tourney game in the last 3 years than Izzo has won in the last 4 years! Izzo must have a culture of losing, correct?

Hey... Dipsch!it... Want to rethink this argument?

Next thing we know, you're gonna compare White to Coach Krzyzewski.

NVGator · Apr 1, 2019

stephenPE said:
Pesky damned facts. Here is another fact. Izzo has been at Mich St since Bill Walton was winning titles with Wooden. He owns the school. He has had time to imprint his culture on the school. White's mountain to climb is named Billy Donovan. Maybe not Mt Everest but a big mofo for sure. Injuries to Egbunu and then those that followed have screwed us up big time...........and still we got to an elite 8 and made the dance three times. Only Calimari in the SEC has done that the last three years in a row. Maybe White aint the answer and will crash and burn with the new guys coming it..........Maybe NV is the final four whisperer. Maybe we will suck till the next hired gun is signed to coach. I will cross that bridge when it comes in to view.............right now MW is our coach and has a VERY good class coming in. Im all in. Does that make me a better fan like Marine (great fan we need more like him).............no it just makes me a more positive and optimistic fan..........the old "in all kinds of weather" fan we have sung about for the last 6 decades. Injuries have fckd this team up the last few years............that is it in a nut shell ..........and one more thing...........I may not be brilliant about economic policy or geopolitical military actions or even investment information or law BUT I do know basketball having played tons of it and watched tons of it and taught it and even coached it..............It is a beautiful game and when played correctly with good team chemistry and leadership along with good talent is a wonder to behold............there is not just one way to coach it.........Im pulling for the white guy in this case...........;)

What the FCvk are you talking about?

Bill Walton was at UCLA from 1971-1974

Tom Izzo was an Assistant at Michigan State from 1983-1995 and then Head Coach from 1995-Present.

My God, some of you will just make schit up to fit your argument that Coach White is the next greatest. FFS, your post alone got 9 likes thinking it was fact. #fakenews,

NVGator · Apr 1, 2019

Marine1 said:
Jevon Bess, Marvin Clark, Russell Byrd, Brandon Kearney, Garrick Sherman, Tom Herzog, Maurice Joseph, Brandon Cotton and Doug Davis.

I guess other than them he doesn’t have that problem.

Shall we go through year by year and determine the transfer ratio?

stephenPE · Apr 1, 2019

NVGator said:
What the FCvk are you talking about?
The warranty on your sarcasm meter is obviously out of date.......

Bill Walton was at UCLA from 1971-1974
Greatest tournament game I EVER saw was his against Memphis St.

Tom Izzo was an Assistant at Michigan State from 1983-1995 and then Head Coach from 1995-Present.
Jeezus, he has been around longer than I thought............
My God, some of you will just make schit up to fit your argument that Coach White is the next greatest. NONE Of us believe MW is the next greatest ........he is just our coach FFS, your post alone got 9 likes thinking it was fact. #fakenews, it got likes for the humor...........you have been on the rag long enough now.......was it the loss to UF

InstiGATOR1 · Apr 1, 2019

stephenPE said:
BUT I do know basketball ............there is not just one way to coach it.........

I want to ask stephenPE about the above statement and make a few comments about this off season so far:

1. stephenPE I agree you can be an offensive minded coach, a defensive minded coach, a zone coach, a man to man coach, etc. What I wonder is do you think it is possible to develop a top program while playing just one big man? Do you have any concerns about UF playing a 6'5" guy at the 4 much of the last two seasons?

2. As far as the players leaving, this mass exodus of players should remind all of us why coaches in all sports defer a bit to the upper class player when they have two players of close ability. Coaches do not want to lose their depth and that can happen when an upper class player falls clearly behind a younger player. White clearly wanted this exodus, as he signaled with playing time certain players were not in his future plans.

3. Jitoboh sounds to me like the kind of player that UF will need to add in the late period this class. He sounds like player who will need to develop a bit. UF does not have many minutes available to promise for high profile guys next year.

Great White Buffalo · Apr 1, 2019

NVGator said:
Hey... Dipsch!it... Want to rethink this argument?

Next thing we know, you're gonna compare White to Coach Krzyzewski.

Why would I rethink it, it was true when I said it. What I get a kick out of, however, is you were too much of a poosie to say anything about it before Izzo won the last two games, and too much of a poosie to comment on the fact that White is one of only 10 coaches in the country to win at least 1 game each of the last three years.

stephenPE · Apr 1, 2019

InstiGATOR1 said:
I want to ask stephenPE about the above statement and make a few comments about this off season so far:

1. stephenPE I agree you can be an offensive minded coach, a defensive minded coach, a zone coach, a man to man coach, etc. What I wonder is do you think it is possible to develop a top program while playing just one big man? Do you have any concerns about UF playing a 6'5" guy at the 4 much of the last two seasons? I really hate to belabor this point but I think injuries just dictated the playing of small fours. Stone goes down this year and he was a natural four. I liked his three pt shooting before he got hurt. But I have to say I was amazed at the rebounding we got from Johnson. The kid is a basketball player. I see him moving easily into the Corey Brewer sort of player.

2. As far as the players leaving, this mass exodus of players should remind all of us why coaches in all sports defer a bit to the upper class player when they have two players of close ability. Coaches do not want to lose their depth and that can happen when an upper class player falls clearly behind a younger player. White clearly wanted this exodus, as he signaled with playing time certain players were not in his future plans. It appears we are gonna be loaded at guard and wing players. So the guys that left saw the writing on the wall. I swear if Gak can get healthy and Stokes improves we will be in MUCH better shape next year. I swear on the souls of my future grandchildren had Egbunu not gotten hurt or had healed and returned we get to the final four once more. And he made our Live Oak boy a better player allowing him to play his natural posiition.

3. Jitoboh sounds to me like the kind of player that UF will need to add in the late period this class. He sounds like player who will need to develop a bit. UF does not have many minutes available to promise for high profile guys next year. IF the high profile guys are bigs they will find playing time. I heard today we got a commit from a good PG from Knoxville. This is like when we had TONS Of secondary players for football but no BIG Def tackles to speak of.

I remember when with Billy near his departure having to play zone because we didnt have the athletic ability to play man. I like the defenses that White plays and how he jumps to the 1 3 1 at times. It won an LSU game at the end cause they had no clue. But I will say this. The final 8 this year had some DAMNED good defensive play. If White can get just two decent bigs to go with this guard play we are ON THE way.......

rogdochar · Apr 1, 2019

This Gator team had crucial missing ingredients, Only the coach-staff can put those in by recruiting, by teaching through demonstrating, by keeping at it until better at it.?

?Do developing players regress or stagnate in their last-chance senior year?

?Do you speed up the team's game by not teaching/practicing uptempo? Will going inside less, advance our inside effectiveness?

? Is standup high dribbling at the arc the way to best launch an attack inward?

Watch the better scoring after the Sweet-16 = do those players look like they haven't developed using the glass?
Aren't we seeing the results of players being made to play better, through insistent repetitive practice.?

This ain't badmouthing; it's areas to work on to get better, more well rounded. Chip away at these instead of "not knowing what to do". The fact is not one of us is looking forward to next year being like this year. That is testimony that we want improvement changes at every position.

Example = We would bounce the dribble off our foot less, if everybody wore one size smaller shoe. :cool:

NVGator · Apr 1, 2019

Great White Buffalo said:
Why would I rethink it, it was true when I said it. What I get a kick out of, however, is you were too much of a poosie to say anything about it before Izzo won the last two games, and too much of a poosie to comment on the fact that White is one of only 10 coaches in the country to win at least 1 game each of the last three years.

It was a horrible argument, that's why you should rethink it. Let's actually use some apples to apples with White and Izzo and their first 4 years...

White:
1st year - 21-15 - NIT
2nd year - 27-9 - Elite 8
3rd year - 21-13 - Round of 32
4th year - 20-16 - Round of 32
5th year - TBD

Izzo:
1st year - 16-16 - NIT
2nd year - 17-12 - NIT
3rd year - 22-8 - Sweet 16
4th year - 33-5 - Final Four
(5th year - 32-7 - National Champs)

Both coaches took over a program and recruited their guys. There's a huge difference with the trajectory of those programs. I'm sure you have White in the Final Four next year, right?

As for the other 9 Coaches who won a Tourney game in the last 3 years, wow... that's an accomplishment. Who's his company?

rogdochar · Apr 1, 2019

Can a coach's template make good players drab? Can it dead-end some senior stars' careers?
How would we know if blaming the players is our jam? Changes may come next year, and changes are needed.

Great White Buffalo · Apr 2, 2019

NVGator said:
It was a horrible argument, that's why you should rethink it. Let's actually use some apples to apples with White and Izzo and their first 4 years...

White:
1st year - 21-15 - NIT
2nd year - 27-9 - Elite 8
3rd year - 21-13 - Round of 32
4th year - 20-16 - Round of 32
5th year - TBD

Izzo:
1st year - 16-16 - NIT
2nd year - 17-12 - NIT
3rd year - 22-8 - Sweet 16
4th year - 33-5 - Final Four
(5th year - 32-7 - National Champs)

Both coaches took over a program and recruited their guys. There's a huge difference with the trajectory of those programs. I'm sure you have White in the Final Four next year, right?

As for the other 9 Coaches who won a Tourney game in the last 3 years, wow... that's an accomplishment. Who's his company?

Good job finally coming up with some facts instead of misinformed opinions.

Yes, Izzo is a great coach. He's a Hall of Famer and one of the top 10 coaches in college basketball. It wasn't a horrible argument, you missed the point. The point was even Izzo, a HOF coach, went 1st round, 2nd round, 2nd round in his 3 years prior to this one. Does that make him a lesser coach? No, it makes him susceptible to the exact same things all coaches are susceptible to. Sometimes recruits pan out, sometimes they don't; sometimes you stay healthy, sometimes you don't. Billy D lost to Izzo in the Finals in year 4, then went 5 straight years without making it out of the 2nd round. It doesn't mean Billy was a bad coach or his trajectory was trending down, it means Brett Nelson regressed every year. It means Anthony Roberson and Matt Walsh were mentally and physically soft and were never able to develop in either area. Or do you think Billy had a bad culture and should've been fired?

Mike White had to replace a legend, yet he took many of the same players Billy had a losing record with and improved by 5 games, including averaging 10 pts more a game. The following year he took those same players to an Elite 8. He can clearly coach. His problem has been on the recruiting end, specifically his 69th ranked 2nd class of Hestor, Basset and Gak, but it certainly looks like he's turning that around. It's hilarious to me that you're complaining that we have to give him more time because he's recruited well the last two years.

Finally, from 2009 to 2014 Billy had the following players leave the program. If I'm not mistaken, he had two years which saw three kids transfer. Bad culture, correct?
Jonathan Mitchell
Jai Lucas
Adam Allen
Allan Chaney
Eloy Vargas
Kenny Kadji
Ray Shipman
Rod Tishman
Cody Larsen
Braxton Ogbueze
Dillon Graham

Gator Basketball B-Ball Transfers: Stone, Okauru, and Ballard

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