- Jun 10, 2014
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Nashville would take them.
Tampontreal Exprays?
- Thread starter g8tr72
- Start date
Nashville would take them.
- Jul 24, 2014
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One of the numerous reasons the expos left is that Montreal wouldn't pony up for a new stadium. Personally, I don't think that has changed.
- Oct 15, 2014
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- Jul 24, 2014
- 9,175
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This is a nice diversion from all the bytching in the recruiting thread.
- Nov 7, 2015
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- Feb 2, 2017
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When Cobb county stole the Braves from Fulton, I was sure glad I lived in Gwinnett.
Read my lips, no new taxes for professional sports leagues.
Read my lips, no new taxes for professional sports leagues.
- Jun 12, 2014
- 3,565
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The expos couldn't sign Larry walker, nor could they afford keeping several of their key players
like Moises & Grissom for instance moving forward. The franchise was a one hit wonder that 94' season.
It's a real shame we didn't get to see it all unfold in the postseason.
like Moises & Grissom for instance moving forward. The franchise was a one hit wonder that 94' season.
It's a real shame we didn't get to see it all unfold in the postseason.
- Mar 28, 2016
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This is a cluster-Montreal, really? But I understand the issues.
I use to work across the street from Al Lang field but lived in east Tampa. It took nearly 1-1/2 hours to get to work (less than 1 mile from the Trop) during rush hour on 4 to 5 lane roads. After spending nearly 3 hours on the road just to get to and from work, I was not going to spend the travel time to go to a game and arrive in the 3rd inning. A decent seat, a hot dog and one beer is $70 including parking, but you could spend close to $200.00 for the same thing if you wanted a better seat. I love baseball but I would rather drive to Gainesville for a game and a better and less expensive experience.
I use to work across the street from Al Lang field but lived in east Tampa. It took nearly 1-1/2 hours to get to work (less than 1 mile from the Trop) during rush hour on 4 to 5 lane roads. After spending nearly 3 hours on the road just to get to and from work, I was not going to spend the travel time to go to a game and arrive in the 3rd inning. A decent seat, a hot dog and one beer is $70 including parking, but you could spend close to $200.00 for the same thing if you wanted a better seat. I love baseball but I would rather drive to Gainesville for a game and a better and less expensive experience.
- Jun 11, 2014
- 1,475
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What bothers me most about this is the dithering. This has been going on for a decade. Both sides deserve blame. If the politicos in Hillsborough can't or won't dig deep, then say that. Sternberg should clearly articulate how much he is willing to spend and at least which county he thinks will work.
That St. Pete mayor thinks he's holding all the cards and that somehow it is ordained by him or God that the Rays play there at least through 2027. He is wrong. The Rays can play wherever they wish - only with MLB's blessing. They would have to pay St. Pete if they leave before '27, but as I understand it, that amount shrinks each year and already is not onerous. St. Pete's saving grace is that there are no other cities with MLB-ready stadiums standing by waiting for a tenant because if there were, they'd probably be gone by now.
I was in Richmond when the AAA Braves bolted for Gwinnett. It was a similar story - the team had wanted a new stadium for years and in their defense, they'd played in the same one since 1966 and it was falling apart. Literally. Chunks of concrete breaking off. The idiot politicians dicked around for years - maybe as long as the Rays' saga has played out. One in a long line of moron mayors even, with a straight face, proposed building on a dump (literally, a dumpsite) in an awful part of town. One day, with zero notice or media leaks, the Braves announced they had packed up and were leaving for Gwinnett. At first, it was shocking, but after the dust settled, most reasonable people didn't blame them. The politicians never took the idea seriously that the team could actually leave. Wrongo. And the Braves & Richmond were, for a long time, considered a model for AAA baseball.
And I mention the Richmond "parable" because what's happening with the Rays feels oddly similar. The Rays can leave whenever they wish (with MLB's approval). They'd have to pay - but it is a huge mistake to believe they will not bolt if a good offer comes along (one that might very well pay St. Pete for them). And the Rays are not, nor have they ever been considered a "model" for MLB. Probably the only reason the area got the team in the first place was Naimoli's persistence and the threat of litigation from the Giants' failed move.
So, both sides: stop dithering. Either negotiate in good faith to get this done - or agree to part.
That St. Pete mayor thinks he's holding all the cards and that somehow it is ordained by him or God that the Rays play there at least through 2027. He is wrong. The Rays can play wherever they wish - only with MLB's blessing. They would have to pay St. Pete if they leave before '27, but as I understand it, that amount shrinks each year and already is not onerous. St. Pete's saving grace is that there are no other cities with MLB-ready stadiums standing by waiting for a tenant because if there were, they'd probably be gone by now.
I was in Richmond when the AAA Braves bolted for Gwinnett. It was a similar story - the team had wanted a new stadium for years and in their defense, they'd played in the same one since 1966 and it was falling apart. Literally. Chunks of concrete breaking off. The idiot politicians dicked around for years - maybe as long as the Rays' saga has played out. One in a long line of moron mayors even, with a straight face, proposed building on a dump (literally, a dumpsite) in an awful part of town. One day, with zero notice or media leaks, the Braves announced they had packed up and were leaving for Gwinnett. At first, it was shocking, but after the dust settled, most reasonable people didn't blame them. The politicians never took the idea seriously that the team could actually leave. Wrongo. And the Braves & Richmond were, for a long time, considered a model for AAA baseball.
And I mention the Richmond "parable" because what's happening with the Rays feels oddly similar. The Rays can leave whenever they wish (with MLB's approval). They'd have to pay - but it is a huge mistake to believe they will not bolt if a good offer comes along (one that might very well pay St. Pete for them). And the Rays are not, nor have they ever been considered a "model" for MLB. Probably the only reason the area got the team in the first place was Naimoli's persistence and the threat of litigation from the Giants' failed move.
So, both sides: stop dithering. Either negotiate in good faith to get this done - or agree to part.
- Jun 24, 2014
- 10,107
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It's the beginning of the end. Stu basically went nuclear on the area and the blowback is pretty bad. Instead of the "oh crap we better do something" attitude he was hoping for...he now has people volunteering to help him pack.
- Jun 11, 2014
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I agree. Well, endgame, anyway.
I disagree - but only by degree. "Nuclear" would be announcing an irrevocable move to another city/state. But this announcement was definitely a massive shot across the bow, to add another tortured metaphor.
The "volunteering to help him pack" contingent has always been the loudest and they've been shrieking the same message for years. Yes, it has gotten a bit louder in the 24 hours since this announcement was made. And I think there are more people that take this position in this market than most others - which doesn't help build a ballpark.
Some have speculated that Stu has given up and this is the first step of several that will allow him to say, "Hey, we really tried." after they end up someplace else. I hope they're wrong.
- Jun 24, 2014
- 10,107
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I agree. Well, endgame, anyway.
I disagree - but only by degree. "Nuclear" would be announcing an irrevocable move to another city/state. But this announcement was definitely a massive shot across the bow, to add another tortured metaphor.
The "volunteering to help him pack" contingent has always been the loudest and they've been shrieking the same message for years. Yes, it has gotten a bit louder in the 24 hours since this announcement was made. And I think there are more people that take this position in this market than most others - which doesn't help build a ballpark.
Some have speculated that Stu has given up and this is the first step of several that will allow him to say, "Hey, we really tried." after they end up someplace else. I hope they're wrong.
The problem is he doesn't want to pony up any money. He's getting a quarter bill a year in revenue but doesn't want to spend it. F him.
- Jun 11, 2014
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I've read that he'll spend some, but he has been vague with the figure.
Local officials may want the team to pony up around half - figure $400-500M. Will other cities pay the full freight for the stadium, relo costs and to pay off St. Pete? Somewhere in between?
In Tampa Bay's favor is an existing fan base that supports the team very well with regard to TV ratings, and it is the largest MSA of any area identified as a possible relo city. And the team has been building its fan base and chipping fans away from northern teams for a generation now. He'd be starting from scratch in another city - though probably with fewer northern transplants to convert.
Is there an appetite in other cities to spend more than a billion taxpayer dollars to attract and relocate an MLB team and build a stadium? I don't know. If yes, they're probably gone. If no, then what's the delta between what he'll have to dig out of his own pocket to stay, as opposed to what he'll have to pay in the new city? That, plus the TV stuff, will tell the tale.
And I disagree with "F him". You, me and anybody else would try to get the best deal we could, if we were in his shoes. Though, he could dial back the opacity a bit. That might help build some goodwill.
- Jun 24, 2014
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He destroyed any goodwill he had built up. My mom is a diehard Rays fan...watches every game and they go to a game here and there even at their age...she's pissed at him. She's about to give up on them. He wants corporate welfare...a hand out. Again, F him. it's not gonna happen here.
- Jun 11, 2014
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You may be right.
Though, it did happen for the Bucs and Ray Jay. So with that precedent, there is a chance. But if I had to bet my hard-earned wampum on it, as of today, I'd bet they'll leave. I hope I'm wrong.
- Jun 24, 2014
- 10,107
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From Si.com
"Tampa has done this particular dance before, too. In 1996, the Buccaneers under new owner Malcolm Glazer got Hillsborough County to pay every penny of the cost for building Raymond James Stadium—$192 million through a tax hike approved by voters. That sweetheart deal even included a lease agreement in which the government paid for nearly all of the stadium expenses while the Bucs kept the proceeds. Glazer, by the way, had a reported net worth of $4–5 billion when he died in 2014. Even though the team won a Super Bowl in 2002, it’s hard to imagine there's anyone who looks fondly upon that swindling.
Likely with Raymond James in mind, Hillsborough County commissioners have already said that they don’t want taxpayer dollars subsidizing the new stadium. It’s unlikely that a combination of the Rays and private investors, meanwhile, would be able to put up enough money to build it on their own. So what happens in this impasse?"
- Jul 31, 2018
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The Rays are dead to me since they hired Kevin Cash. We had season tickets for years and the benefits of being a season ticket holder began to dwindle every year after Stu took over until we finally dropped to a quarter season plan and then killed it all together when Cash was hired.
Baseball is in trouble. No sport is built more on tradition, but it can't survive without major changes speeding the game up for younger generations.
- Jun 12, 2014
- 16,324
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I was a season ticket holder in 06 which I first moved to the area. The problem for the Rays is they have routinely put up an inferior product, and let talented players moving to their second/third contract go. As mentioned above they started removing Season Ticket benefits event to corporate sponsors (the company I work for was one). Their are substitute products in the area. Within driving distance from the ball park, you can see the Clearwater Threshers (A+ Phillies), Tampa Tarpons (A+ Yankees), Dunnedin Blue Jays (A+ Blue Jays), etc... with a family of four for the price of parking to see a Rays game, with better deals for the fans. The Rays also poorly market themselves to the local/tourist fans coming through the area. I see more Clearwater Thresher Billboards and TV advertisements than I do for the Rays on the local networks (only have antenna after NCAA Tournament).
The Rays built this mess by the poor management and not understanding the area. Also having great ownership with the lightening and a legacy organization in the Bucs... the question is can the area truly support three Major Professional Sport franchises.
The Rays built this mess by the poor management and not understanding the area. Also having great ownership with the lightening and a legacy organization in the Bucs... the question is can the area truly support three Major Professional Sport franchises.
