Truth Takes: 2019 O-Line and WR/TE

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Alethea
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Well, another Sunday, time to talk about the rest of our offense. I'll say this, which I know has been said elsewhere by more connected Gators than myself. As far as skill position guys, I am not sure the last time it has been so deep at UF. I have watched the first half of 2018 Kentucky and some of the Mizzou game this morning to scout O-line play. One of my key takeaways from Kentucky remains the same, the O-line played terrible and it hurt the rest of the team. Mizzou? Everybody goofed there. Anyways, as a basic rule of football, the offense will go as the O-line goes. However, there can be some coaching around great D-Lines. we saw as much with the #FailState and Michigan games last season.

WR/TE's

I don't think I can saw it much better than the OP in this thread:

UF WR corps not in shambles

But, I'll add what I can.

Review:

WR's:

These guys had some ups and downs in 2018. The tight ends played 6 deep (Lewis, Stephens, Krull, Gamble Raymond, and Pitts) while different receivers took turns playing the featured role- Swain early and Grimes/Jefferson later in the season. The guy that really stood out, and has earned the #1 jersey for it, is Kadarius Toney. I'm sure a great argument could be made that Toney did not get the necessary touches last season. It could be him not learning the playbook well, or not blocking well, or whatever, but he seems destined to play a more prominent role this season. His best game of the season last season was South Carolina where several times he turned nothing into big gains and even a touchdown. The kid is a human highlight reel when given the ball with space and the #1 shows his talent is being recognized. Grimes and Jefferson coming on more at the end is probably more of a factor of familiarity with teammates than it is with the playbook as both were transfers before last season. Josh Hammond continued to be the most sure-handed player on the team with some great catches included one for a big first down in Atlanta.

TE's:
Before last season, no one would have guessed Moral Stephens would have been the biggest factor at TE. The guy came out of nowhere and Dan Mullen took a shot at the previous staffs (and indirectly at the lapdog media who drooled over these guys and defended stupidly until the end) about how players like Moral Stephens had been under served and that he wishes he had more time to develop players like him. Kyle Pitts made a few bigs grabs. Heck, after several big drops in the first two games walk on RJ Raymond (ok, former walk on) made a spinning TD grab at Tennessee. C'yontai Lewis never quite became consistent after showing flashes for years and that eventually dropped his playing time to players like Stephens, Pitts, Krull, and Gamble.

2019:

WR's:

Kyle Pitts at 6'6" 247 lbs. has made the move to wide receiver. This is a match up nightmare. Do you want you 6'1" max 190 lbs. max DB going up against this monster? Or do you want to put a linebacker on him and hope they keep up. And yes, the move is legitimate as recently Grimes has posted a photo to Twitter of the receiving corps with Billy Gonzales and it includes Kyle Pitts. Also, speaking of that photo, those are some jacked receivers. Toney and Cleveland stick out to me as guys who have bulked up in the past two off-seasons under savage. This group may not have broken 2,000 yards in 2018, but that will change. Both because of everyone's familiarity with the playbook, but also because I think we will see more downfield accuracy from Franks. If he were more accurate in this area last year I can think of at least 60 yards in Jacksonville (and probably a lot more elsewhere) that were left on the field.

As a strategy, with so much depth, I'd send at least one guy deep every play. Heck, I'd send the same outside position (different receiver) deep every play. Either you'll gas the DB, hit a big play, run a DB out of a play, lull them to sleep and then hit a big play, or all of the above. If you have depth and are as conditioned as you say you are, see if the other team is and take advantage if they aren't.

TE's:
The loss of Lewis, Stephens and Pitts (sort of) only opens doors for Gamble, Krull, and Dante Lang to get more time on the field. Highly rated recruit Keon Zipperer will probably also see the field, but how much will be determined by the play of those ahead of him and how he grasps the playbook in fall camp. I would not be shocked if we see him with four games and a redshirt. I am not sure exactly what to expect, but I think this group will be a key as we saw throughout Mullen's first stint at UF. If he can take a 4 year backup like Stephens and make him relevant in 1 year, what can he do with a Kemore Gamble or Lucas Krull with a second year?

Bold Prediction:

With so much talent, its not bold to predict that we won't have a 1,000 yard receiver or that we won't have a 800 yard receiver in my opinion. However, I will boldly say that both of these position groups will combine for over 2,750 yards. We will see the running backs catch a number of passes, but this group will get a good number. Even more bold (maybe not), I think at least 1,000 of those yards are YAC. Guys like Toney, Swain and Grimes can take a screen and go 10+ yards. It will add up.


O-Line

Review:

There seems to be some sort of myth that has grown around the 2018 Florida Gators football offensive line. A myth that it was dominant, consistent, and irreplaceable. I implore you to go watch the full games and all games from last season (or just look up any game recap or thread on this board, but preferably watch the games) and you will see a line that was far from dominant, inconsistent and definitely replaceable. Did this line have players get drafted? Yes. Does that defeat the inconsistent game film? No.

At times, this line could be dominant and push you around, and then there would be the back to back false starts, playing like statues, and generally getting no push. That was an incredibly experienced offensive line, but as I have said about Franks and others, what does that experience actually mean when you are in an inept scheme? Further, I'm willing to bet that how they are coached/trained/schemed under Mullen and Hevesy is different than what they had previously (not to mention how much of that "experience" was at guard for Ivey, which is a different position played differently than tackle). So in some ways last year was also a first year of starting for the line. Not to say that experience on the field isn't important (it is), but you can start John Brantley for 1,000 games in Addazio's offense at it isn't ending well. Arguably the best lineman (Heggie, Lake County represent) was gone for the majority of the season.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that last year's line was the worst, just saying that the way I've seen people talk is putting them on a pedestal that is too high in my opinion. We literally schemed some games away from the line to help them out (like #failstate).

2019:

I say all that about 2018 to put in the perspective of 2019 we have 3-4 new starters depending on how you feel about Heggie. Forsythe got some time last year when Florida was down 31-14 to South Carolina over a Second Round draft pick. The Gators scored a TD on that drive to ignite an amazing comeback. Forsythe is also a mammoth in the vein of Trent Brown who no one ever heard from after he left Florida...wonder what happened to him. Hevesy and co just to turn up his aggressiveness. I can't wait to see Heggie taking some pulls.

Believe it or not, the 2019 line has at least 2 advantages on the 2018 line. The first advantage is two years of S&C under Coach Savage. That means this line should be bigger and better equipped to play hard and rough through the end of games. The 2017 line, most of which became the 2018 line, was known for being soft and you could see some difference between years 2017 and 2018. Now imagine what kind of gains a line could have with two years of Savage. The second advantage, and this goes for every position, is a second year in the system. In year one, most players are trying to remember assignments, which leads to missed assignments. In year two, you should know your assignments and now are looking at the finer points of things.

One easy way this line can be more successful than 2018 without ever blocking a defender is cutting down on the false starts. We had plenty of back to back false starts. Back to back should never happen.

I am not saying this line will be better than 2018, but I do think they can reach 2018's level and it begins by not losing 5 yards several times a game because you're not focused.

Bold Prediction:

This line does enough to give Florida its most prolific offense since 2008, even better than last year. Though to do that, they don't have to be better than last year's line (except for false starts), they just need to do enough to give the skill players a little room to work. We've seen Davis (Vandy '17), Toney, Perine, and others take a tiny sliver of room and take it long, if not to the house. This line will give the creases and more.


In conclusion, this offense has the weapons to be very, very dangerous. It needs a line that can get it there. Coaching can scheme around the line and we've seen it before. We've also seen what difference year 2 in a Dan Mullen offense can make and I'd bet the bigger part of that is just knowing your role and doing more reacting than thinking about what your supposed to do. If this line stays generally healthy, the receivers and tight ends will take some of the load off of them. Such as against Michigan where if you decided not to play the perimeter, the screen would kill you with the receivers blocking, but if you played the perimeter, the line had numbers against you for the run. I think we see an improved offense in 2018.
 

ChiefGator

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Experience is great, but it has to be experience in success not in failure. Sure linemen need basic criteria like strength, ability to move, use their hands etc. In addition they need continual effort, and to work together. I also think that having fewer tight ends might be a big positive as they understand that they are responsible for the success of their position and a lot the offense.

Thanks for great analysis. I do think that the "receivers" and the oline probably should have seperate threads as their situations are quite different. Talk about TE receiving with other receivers and their blocking with the oline.
 

Gator Fever

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Not sure on the overall numbers but I think the running game will take a little step back as I just don't see the new tackles matching what Taylor or even Ivey was doing there after the first few games last season. I think the passing will be up yardage wise some due to the running game not being as good but Franks will be taking more sacks this season.

As far as receivers and anyone getting a 1,000 yards I just don't see that happening with Franks at QB no matter how talented they may be. They are probably the 2nd best group in the SEC to Bama's receivers but like last year you won't know that looking at their stats for 2019.
 

CaribGator

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An average line with minimal penalties will give us a great year. These guy gel, the S&C pays off, and they become a great line, we're going to Atlanta to whoop some azz.

Go Gators
 

lizardbreath

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Nice take on offense, good summary all the way around. The OL is of course the key. Giving an improved Franks time to go deep could result in a very dynamic situation. I personally believe that the running game will be fine by the time we reach the heart of the conference schedule. With some luck with injuries, this could be the sort of offense we've all been waiting for. Another double digit win season is definitely possible, consistent play/improvement on the OL could result in the ability to win some shootouts that will no doubt occur as the season wears on.
 

Gator By Marriage

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Every story in the media about the Gators offense this off season really says the same thing, though occasionally slightly differently: “if the offensive line....”
I agree with Truth’s assessment that last year’s line was not very special and with another year of Hevesy and Savage, this line could be better. For me, this season all hinges on FF. Is he up an down again or is what we saw the last 4 games the “new” Feleipe? Will he continue to progress from year 2 to year 3 as much as he did from year 1 to 2, or has he hit his ceiling? (Or God forbid will he regress?) I for one, was impressed by what I heard from him at SEC media days. He sounded like a mature leader. Per usual for me, I’m cautiously optimistic. If Truth’s assessment about the line is correct and FF is better than last season (or even just consistent), they could challenge for the conference. On the other hand.......
 

Swamp Donkey

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Experience is great, but it has to be experience in success not in failure. Sure linemen need basic criteria like strength, ability to move, use their hands etc. In addition they need continual effort, and to work together. I also think that having fewer tight ends might be a big positive as they understand that they are responsible for the success of their position and a lot the offense.

Thanks for great analysis. I do think that the "receivers" and the oline probably should have seperate threads as their situations are quite different. Talk about TE receiving with other receivers and their blocking with the oline.
This might be (friend of) Vulcan's best post ever.

Practice doesnt make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Im really not worried about this OL... unless we start having injuries.
 

Albert

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Good read. I also think the running game may take a few games to get going. Reason being it may take time to scheme around what the tackles can or can’t do. No one will know either until they get on the field. If our non-qb backs get 100- 150yds on the ground week 1 I think it will bode well for the rest of the season. If not it may be painful for a while.
 

gatorev12

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Good writeup and analysis.

I'm not fully won-over about Coach Mullen (year 1 was better than I thought though), but I will say this about him: there was a noticeable upgrade in terms of actual coaching and utilizing scheming and game planning. Too often under Muschump and Butters: our limitations remained our limitations throughout the year and neither coach wanted to do a damn thing to address them.

Many of the limitations we had last year were also faced by both chump and butters; but Mullen did a much better job using scheme and gameplanning than either of the previous two. Even if the OL isn't as dominant as previous versions have been, I'm confident that Mullen will find a way to figure something out--especially when we have such stacked playmakers at RB, WR, and TE.
 

Swamp Donkey

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I'm not fully won-over about Coach Mullen (year 1 was better than I thought though), but I will say this about him: there was a noticeable upgrade in terms of actual coaching and utilizing scheming and game planning. .
Just finishing strong was such a change. How long has it been? 2008? of course we were expecting that. Maybe 2005 since we took a mediocre team and actually got better.

So tired of coaches that started out slow and got worse all year, standing on the sidelines looking confused. Hell, even the "good" years under Chimp or Butters were PAINFUL to watch.
 

G8trwood

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Jacked receivers and db that don’t get hand checked by a pinky! That is a major upgrade.

Go Gators
 

deuce

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Tired of the FF poo talk.....
 

Sec14Gator

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I know they still have camp to go but watching that spring game it looks like our starting Tackles aren't that good at getting to that 2nd level on those running plays we run and when they do Forsythe and Delance aren't pounding the LBs like Taylor or even Ivey was doing in 2018.

our starting Tackles aren't that good at getting to that 2nd level on those running plays we run and when they do Forsythe and Delance aren't pounding the LBs like Taylor or even Ivey was doing in 2018.

I just don't see the new tackles matching what Taylor or even Ivey was doing there after the first few games last season

I’ve seen you try to make this point in a number of threads, but in watching our OL last year, I don’t recall our tackles peeling and getting to the second level much at all. The guards, especially Heggie, I recall on some occasions. I thought I might be wrong so I googled some analysis of our OL run blocking scheme, including a Read and React article with a lot of clips from the Michigan game. It’s not there either. Maybe I recall wrong and totally missed this part of our scheme.

Overall, though, I understand the doubts about the OL, but this one seems contrived.
 

Swamp Donkey

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We had one tackle that was garbage last year. He didn't get drafted.

We have a guy playing Left Tackle this year that Hev thinks is our best tackle. I trust Hev.
 

LagoonGator68

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We had one tackle that was garbage last year. He didn't get drafted.

We have a guy playing Left Tackle this year that Hev thinks is our best tackle. I trust Hev.



:lmao:
Forsythe has feet of stone, no pun intended. If he is a SEC LT , I’m the pope.....won’t work, can’t play, I don’t care how big he is.
 

GatorTruth133

Alethea
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Thanks for great analysis. I do think that the "receivers" and the oline probably should have seperate threads as their situations are quite different. Talk about TE receiving with other receivers and their blocking with the oline.

I realized that we are closer to the beginning of the season than I thought so I bunched them. I was planning to split them originally. I figure Defense/ST will get two weeks and a schedule post and then we are in game week.

Not sure on the overall numbers but I think the running game will take a little step back as I just don't see the new tackles matching what Taylor or even Ivey was doing there after the first few games last season. I think the passing will be up yardage wise some due to the running game not being as good but Franks will be taking more sacks this season.

Yes and no. Both tackles were inconsistent throughout the season last year, but did get better (except for that being benched against SC thing). Both could be step back yes, but I think that the interior run game should help with pulling guards and what not along with the power of Pierce and Perine being able to push piles. Also, like I said when talking about the backfield, Franks keeping the ball more will help slow down the opposing defense. Should help some. I agree that we see more sacks.

For me, this season all hinges on FF. Is he up an down again or is what we saw the last 4 games the “new” Feleipe? Will he continue to progress from year 2 to year 3 as much as he did from year 1 to 2, or has he hit his ceiling? (Or God forbid will he regress?)

When Franks had time last year he was either very accurate or overthrowing deep balls. From what I've seen he's worked hard on that and hopefully it pays off. I think adding more running to his game like we saw in Tally and Atlanta alone will open some things up as its something defenses will have to respect.

I also think the running game may take a few games to get going. Reason being it may take time to scheme around what the tackles can or can’t do. No one will know either until they get on the field. If our non-qb backs get 100- 150yds on the ground week 1 I think it will bode well for the rest of the season. If not it may be painful for a while.

I think that Mullen may find ways to scheme around it early on like the screen passes we saw against #failstate, but your point is 100% true, we may need to figure things out. I am going to look into what Wisconsin had going for it before discussing Miami, but I do know that Miami had a highly rated D, but UCF played a tougher schedule overall.

I'm not fully won-over about Coach Mullen (year 1 was better than I thought though), but I will say this about him: there was a noticeable upgrade in terms of actual coaching and utilizing scheming and game planning. Too often under Muschump and Butters: our limitations remained our limitations throughout the year and neither coach wanted to do a damn thing to address them.

Many of the limitations we had last year were also faced by both chump and butters; but Mullen did a much better job using scheme and gameplanning than either of the previous two. Even if the OL isn't as dominant as previous versions have been, I'm confident that Mullen will find a way to figure something out--especially when we have such stacked playmakers at RB, WR, and TE.

Exactly. And now is a great time to remind everyone that I have two requirements for saying Mullen was the right hire 1. Beat FSU, Check 2. Win an SEC Title (if we can't win the conference, do we really want to be Mark Richt?)

Just finishing strong was such a change. How long has it been? 2008? of course we were expecting that. Maybe 2005 since we took a mediocre team and actually got better.

So tired of coaches that started out slow and got worse all year, standing on the sidelines looking confused. Hell, even the "good" years under Chimp or Butters were PAINFUL to watch.

Yep. I'd argue though that the dark years the coaches didn't get worse throughout the year, but competition got better and better coaches like Jimbo, Saban, etc. would just see the first down dive and engage eight (I'm being sarcastic, but we know that they all loved that first down dive and was easy to defend).

I trust Hev.

Who are you and what have you done with Law? Trusting the coaches?
 

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