Game Over: NCAA allows athletes to profit from name

Sec14Gator

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Based on what? UF isn’t known to be big spenders.

For those that bytch about the UAA, the opposite of this statement is true. UF fans, as a community are huge spenders. Some of the biggest dollars in the country. It is the UAA that is not. This law bypasses the UAA. Could that create problems, sure, but lack of spending isn't the issue.

A lot of these kids have never had a job before. Wanna shoot a commercial for 10K? Inevitably Tax evasion will be a problem as a result. If I were a CPA in a college town i'd be thrilled at this news.

I agree with this post and others that there are going to be real money management problems. This is one area schools will begin to try to differentiate themselves and offer some financial protection, which itself gets precarious. But, it will occur the way we have player advisors now. For UF, this is the type of thing we are more likely to spend money on, across the entire athletic department. Expect the new staffs to include tax advisors, financial advisors, and trust services to hold and manage the money as options for players.

Can't wait til these kids get a big dose of Uncle Sam :lol:

This is still the most interesting element. If the player is paid an endorsement for the athletic fame, that is certainly taxed. Does the IRS then argue the entirety of the athletic benefit is taxable, i.e. the scholarship, training, food, clothes, dorm, stipends, etc. The tax bill could be huge. I expect such a maneuver to be labelled racist and disproportionately impacting those from low incomes. I think the IRS will not do it or congressmen will amend the IRS code to ensure an exception.

@Sec14Gator
Please explain the facepalm. I'm curious what your issue is with this

Here was your post:

And if college players can be paid for their likeness like pro athletes, I see no need for athletic scholarships anymore. They should live by their means just like the pros.

The facepalm is the absurdity of your position here that due to this great inflow of money every player will receive, that the need for scholarships will vanish or that the primary value exchange is no longer between the player and school, but the player and an endorser (who is only there because of the player/school relationship).

The vast majority (maybe more than 95%) of college athletes will not make money off of this, unless it is relative pennies from a unionized or collectively bargained - sign to join - agreement with a company like EA sports for a video game, which will not pay out too much regardless. For instance, in the NFL, with only 32 teams, and only 53 players per roster, the total payout is around $20,000 per year per player. Total to the NFL PA in 2013 was $2.2 million before it takes a cut to pay its executives and staff. The NFL gets a lot more and as other have noted here, the schools and NCAA are the more valuable product, similar to the NFL being more valuable than the specific players. In college, with thousands of more players (Power 5 has twice as many teams and 60% more players per team than the NFL; approx. 5200 players vs approx. 1700, not even accounting for G5) , and a less popular game than the NFL, are they going to make an extra $2-3k as part of a collective deal. That barely moves the stipend needle.

Even in the NFL, most players do not have individual endorsements, yet you think in college they all will? And sufficient to cover a scholarship, or that the school doesn't still derive a benefit worth providing the scholarship?

That is the reason for the facepalm.
 

UFHealthGator

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So, what does the GM of a dealership or higher up at Florida Pest Control do in a case like James Robinson. Money is offered, even if it doesn't change hands until enrollment, and he decides to sign with UF. Then it's realized he has a heart condition and can't play. Are we to assume that such a contract will not contain clauses and verbiage that can allow them to void the agreement?

Like you said, there will be clauses for something like that. If the contract is quite large they can even perform the in depth health screening ahead of signing as a condition to executing the contract.

I don't know what you do at UF Health, but I imagine if en route to work on your first day, you had an accident that prevented you from ever being able to complete your job, they--as empathetic as they may be--wouldn't continue paying you for years while getting nothing in return, as that position would have to be filled by someone else who they'd be obligated to pay.

Actually interesting you mentioned that, because all UF health employees are covered by disability insurance as benefit. That insurance would pay 60% of you salary at the time of disability up to age 65. In fact the disability just needs to keep you from doing your own occupation. Meaning a surgeon or highly skilled physician who had a hand injury that would now keep him from doing surgeries, can still work as a physician at a position that do not require his hand skills and make money, in addition to getting paid 60% of his salary as a surgeon until the age of retirement.
 

URGatorBait

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The facepalm is the absurdity of your position here that due to this great inflow of money every player will receive that the need for scholarships will vanish (or that the primary value exchange is no longer between the player and school, but the player and an endorser (who is only there because of the player/school relationship).
Who cares who the players in the exchange are. Pay to play is pay to play.
I find it absurd that kids are literally getting 100-200k in benefits to them, maybe more, that all those other kids that "work" don't necessarily have the luxury of having, and yet folks like you think these kids need to be paid.
I think it's a mistake that will lead to much greater issues when the details need to be hashed out.
The rich will get richer, which is ironic because it seems, generally speaking, is that the people who support this, are the same people who supposedly support "equality".


There is no requirement that anyone go to college in order to make the NFL or any other professional league.

The vast majority (maybe more than 95%) of college athletes will not make money off of this (unless it is relative pennies from a unionized or collectively bargained - sign to join - agreement with a company like EA sports for a video game, which will not pay out too much regardless. For instance, in the NFL, with only 32 teams, and only 53 players per roster, the total payout is around $20,000 per year per player - Total to the NFL PA in 2013 was $2.2 million - the NFL gets a lot more and as other have noted here, the schools and NCAA are the more valuable product. In college, with thousands of more players (Power 5 has twice as many teams and 60% more players per team; approx. 5200 players vs approx. 1700, not even accounting for G5) , and a less popular game than the NFL, are they going to make an extra $2-3k as part of a collective deal. That barely moves the stipend needle).
That's where it starts isn't it? Sounds nice right? Until it becomes a political issue. This will be no different than general income inequality arguments.
Even in the NFL, most players do not have individual endorsements, yet you think in college they all will? And sufficient to cover a scholarship, or that the school doesn't still derive a benefit worth providing the scholarship?
I think if you have an endorsement in college, you should forgo your athletic scholarship....how about that.
 

soflagator

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Like you said, there will be clauses for something like that. If the contract is quite large they can even perform the in depth health screening ahead of signing as a condition to executing the contract.



Actually interesting you mentioned that, because all UF health employees are covered by disability insurance as benefit. That insurance would pay 60% of you salary at the time of disability up to age 65. In fact the disability just needs to keep you from doing your own occupation. Meaning a surgeon or highly skilled physician who had a hand injury that would now keep him from doing surgeries, can still work as a physician at a position that do not require his hand skills and make money, in addition getting paid 60% of his salary as a surgeon until the age of retirement.

Point 1) Great. I like it. So we find out in January that Robinson has a heart condition that will prevent him from ever playing, immediately move on to other prospects, and he's left holding a preliminary contract that will no longer be executed and a lanyard from his OV to a school that will no longer offer him a scholarship. Massive win for the young man.

Point 2) Assuming this was at approximately age 25, inflation alone would leave you in a real bind before you hit 40. Not to mention that whole thing would be a considerable concession prize give what could've been if given the opportunity, which is basically what those insurance policies are for athletes. Bottom line, UF Health is making a fortune off of you. And if you can't perform, even if it's through no fault of your own, you're getting peanuts and will likely have to settle for some other job at a fraction of the pay.

As I said, the real world is unfortunately littered with horrible circumstances that we wish we could solve. But in large part, this doesn't do that. It only gets some of these kids there and has them facing the music 3-4 years sooner.
 

T REX

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hero_nuclear_blast.jpg
 

Gator By Marriage

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The vast majority (maybe more than 95%) of college athletes will not make money off of this, unless it is relative pennies from a unionized or collectively bargained - sign to join - agreement with a company like EA sports for a video game, which will not pay out too much regardless.
I suppose it depends how you define relative pennies. While the Tua's and Trevor's of college football would clearly get the big bucks, plenty of other guys could make some extra cash by doing ads for the businesses in their respective college towns or areas. None of the lower tier guys will get rich off of it, but when all your other costs are covered by your scholly, it's some nice extra cash. (I suspect every scholarship player in the revenue sports will be getting some kind of "endorsement" money.) Even athletes in non-revenue sports, like say girls lacrosse, will get a few bucks doing ads for equipment makers. The schools that place high priority in these sports will ensure their athletes get plenty of opportunities to make extra cash.
 

Sec14Gator

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I find it absurd that kids are literally getting 100-200k in benefits to them, maybe more, that all those other kids that "work" don't necessarily have the luxury of having, and yet folks like you think these kids need to be paid.

There are lots of people theoretically doing the same job as me. The pay ranges are far more than $100-200k apart. There are many people making youtube accounts, Instagram, etc. to sell their likeness. The pay ranges there are also far more than $100-200k apart. Same with the NFL, and every other element of life where some excel above others. I just don't see that as a legit argument against this law. Since you dove into politics (I really did not intend to, as much as observe I doubt the IRS will tax the athletes beyond the endorsement money), I find it interesting that the rationale you and others have for the opposition to the law (not the opposition itself) is being used by those that are so anti-socialism in the political forum. As you can perhaps tell from my posts not hating on some people getting more than others, I am not pro-socialism.

To your point about "folks like you think these kids need to be paid", you're wrong. I don't think that, but I do think it is far more nuanced than that statement. There is a different between "need to be paid" and free to accept payment others are offering, or you may not limit the market of a person's own identity. What I do think is that the topic is interesting and scary for fans of college sports (a group I'm clearly in), but the reactions of some fall across as vast array of predictable, moronic, and well thought out. You can decide where yours fall.

The competitive balance of any "league" itself has some value worth protecting. Here, it is difficult to asses what the league is at issue. Perhaps this will just further push the Power 5 to some separate, independent status.

I think if you have an endorsement in college, you should forgo your athletic scholarship....how about that

At least it's a better position than your first one. By page 25 of this thread, it might be a fully cogent position. Improvement matters.

I do like your ending question of "how about that". Powerful written affect.

It reminds me of the kids book: "There was an Old Lady Who Swallowed a Bat". After "swallowed a bat" is referenced on most pages it reads "imagine that". My then 2 year old would always respond "Imagine Not That!" Well, my then 2 year old's retort also well represents my answer to your rhetorical question of "how about that".
 

Swamp Donkey

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Why is a fvkktard talking about unions?
 

ThreatMatrix

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I have nothing against players making money.
However I don’t believe there is any way to implement this without creating a huge competitive imbalance that will totally shift the have/have not ratio to 99:1.
This changes everything.
Talk about an arms race. We will end up with two super powers.
 

Swamp Donkey

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Talk about an arms race. We will end up with two super powers.
Yeah, but, it cuts out Fooley's Clowns from the process.

This could be good for us.

I agree though, by signed photographs of your favoeite Gators and fvkk sending money to UAA only to be pocketed by bureaicrats or spent on softball and baseball.
 

soflagator

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How about Ed Chester?

He is always the first name that comes to mind when I think of these cases. Hated that for him.

But I will say, when we're asked to provide examples, and the names that immediately spring to mind are from 2014, 2005, and 1997, I think we're seeing the point that some of us have tried to make. Yes, there are cases where it's gut-wrenching to see. And there are obviously more than just those three. But how many tend of thousands of athletes have benefited from the current arrangement in that time span? So we're basically writing legislature for a couple of examples that are extremely rare. When has that ever made sense?
 

URGatorBait

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There are lots of people theoretically doing the same job as me. The pay ranges are far more than $100-200k apart. There are many people making youtube accounts, Instagram, etc. to sell their likeness. The pay ranges there are also far more than $100-200k apart. Same with the NFL, and every other element of life where some excel above others. I just don't see that as a legit argument against this law. Since you dove into politics (I really did not intend to, as much as observe I doubt the IRS will tax the athletes beyond the endorsement money), I find it interesting that the rationale you and others have for the opposition to the law (not the opposition itself) is being used by those that are so anti-socialism in the political forum. As you can perhaps tell from my posts not hating on some people getting more than others, I am not pro-socialism.
To be fair, my points have not been in regards to law as created by government. My points are about the move the NCAA itself is making.

I also wasn't talking about you personally, I was saying more generally, there of course are exceptions.

At least it's a better position than your first one. By page 25 of this thread, it might be a fully cogent position. Improvement matters.
It's what I intended initially, but admittedly failed miserably to say :lol:
 

T REX

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Likenesses? Kids will be "selling" autographs for $5000 a pop to boosters.

Queue the Doors This is the End...
 

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