737 MAX

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bammer, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. LagoonGator68

    LagoonGator68 ###BANNED###
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    It just doesn't seem logical that a Captain would forget to cut back power with all the noise issues in the cockpit that you describe and not cutting back power seeming to be the primary cause of the entire problem to start with.
     
  2. Detroitgator

    Detroitgator General Factotum
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    In the context of what Zambo said about the relationship between automation and training combined with an emergency situation, it makes completely perfect logical sense... events overcome level of training (plus anything Boeing induced) and panic kills.
     
    • Zambo

      Zambo Poo Flinger
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      Well in his defense he was also getting a stick shaker, which is a motor that causes the control yoke to vibrate as a big warning that you are stalling the airplane. Its pretty hard to ignore, and the last thing you'd think to do if you were stalling is to chop the power. Your instinct is actually the opposite. But then again, after some amount of time, they should have figured out that the plane wasn't stalling and that they were getting bad data and handled it.
       
    • Detroitgator

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      Again, OBE, for the very reasons you laid out.
       
    • crosscreekcooter

      crosscreekcooter Cunning Linguist
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      Make sense to me. I usually have trouble keeping from ramming my feet thru the floorboard and my ass jaws from eating the leather whenever I'm riding with momma and she approaches a red light and brakes at the last second.
       
      • ncargat1

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        As a complete know-nothing when it comes to flying/piloting, the system that is being described as new and is responsible for changing the trim without pilot input seems like a rather big change. So, how did Boeing get away with not having to try pilots on this new version?? Or is the part about training not true??
         
      • AugustaGator

        AugustaGator Junior Member
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        English as a second language. My experience profound concepts get lost in translation.
         
      • LagoonGator68

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        • Taco Gratis

          Taco Gratis Clear eyes. Full hearts.

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        • Gatoravatara

          Gatoravatara Protaganista

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          This is a sh1tshow. How will Boeing recover? How does Southwest get its planes?
           
        • gatorev12

          gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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          Would you rather fly Russian planes? Or Chinese?

          They screwed up, undoubtedly. And they'll pay fines and other financial costs. The end result is more stringent flight testing and FAA oversight.

          The vast majority of Boeing planes are perfectly safe and have a track record of safety spanning decades. After previous crashes, flaws were fixed and safety procedures made flying even safer. I've zero doubts that once the MAX re-enters service, it'll be safer than most models.
           
        • Zambo

          Zambo Poo Flinger
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          More bloviating from people who don’t know schyt from shinola. The “autopilot” cutoff switch is irrelevant because none of this has anything to do with the autopilot. MCAS only functions when the pilots are hand flying. Whether the switches were reversed matters not simply because every scenario that requires you to flip those switches says to turn the both off. I have thousands of hours in the 737 and I couldn’t sit here and tell you from memory which one is on the left and which one is on the right. Any time you are moving switches like that you not only read the placard by the switch but verify it with the other pilot first.

          The reason they couldn’t move the trim wheel manually is simply because they were flying well in excess of the max speed of the airplane and the load forces on the tail were too high in that situation.
           
          • Taco Gratis

            Taco Gratis Clear eyes. Full hearts.

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            Thanks.

            Hard for the layman to tell what's relevant and what isn't.

            That said, what are your thoughts about this quote in particular, from someone who appears to have some expertise...

             
          • DaveFla

            DaveFla Well-Known Member
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            Yep. You beat me to it. The trim wheel isn’t easy to move in the first place, but it becomes easier, exponentially, as the airspeed decreases.

            First action should ALWAYS be, TURN OFF THE AUTOMATION!
            ,
             
          • Politigator

            Politigator L-boy's Cousin
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            Recently heard very interesting podcast on this.

            Two Crashes, a Single Jet: The Story of Boeing’s 737 Max

            As I understood this, the plan was redesigned such that the engine placement was slightly more forward than before, which all else equal would cause the plane to nose up more and if pilot didn't know what they were doing could cause a stall. Boeing didnt want to have to retrain all pilots for this so they installed a software that compensated for the tendency to nose up. They didn't communicate this to pilots because they thought there was no need to.

            After one of the crashes the black box indicated the pilots tried to elevate like 60 times but the software prevented them from doing so and it ended up crashing. So the software prevented the pilots from making corrective action.

            That was my takeaway. I'm not a pilot nor do I play one on TV

            They did say that most of the pilots who flew it really liked the plane.
             
            • Zambo

              Zambo Poo Flinger
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              I don't know enough about how the software tied the MCAS to either switch but I'm certain of two things. One, the plane is entirely flyable with manual trim as long as you keep it in the normal operating envelope and don't exceed the max speed by an incredible amount. And two, the MCAS system itself, even when working normally, was given way too much authority to engage and stay engaged. It should only work if both AOA vanes sense excess pitch, and it should only trim a reasonable amount of nose down trim rather than continue to run to the full nose down limit. Simply adjusting the system to those two constraints is all this thing needs to be airworthy again IMO.
               
            • AugustaGator

              AugustaGator Junior Member
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              Boeing pledging 100MM for themselves? Education for stupid management?

               
            • DaveFla

              DaveFla Well-Known Member
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              What’s good for the goose ...

              A321neo operators alerted over 'excessive pitch' anomaly
               

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