California, Florida sign law to allow college athletes to get paid

[Swamp Donkey]

No, just had some personal changes, but all good. :)

I'm just messing with you. Glad you're back.

 

[TLB]

The should establish a trust fund that for all scholarship players on the Power 5 teams. Fund could only be accessible after a period of time and could only be used for educational expenses or other reasonable items.

The last bit is where you went subjective in who can be paid for what, which opens the door to no end of corruption. I'm not sure I have a solution, as going to a base stipend to ALL athletes remains unfair to the (football/basketball) 'earners' and is basically an extension of free tuition. The alternative of paying per worth, that will face endless cries of 'equal pay' as we've heard from women's soccer recently. There is no clean solution, IMO, so the NCAA just keeps its head in the sand waiting for the problem to go away...until California just forced the issue.

The push for paying players is an offshoot of the push for socialism since that is the basic premise.

I disagree, it's not socialism. It's capitalism - the 'earners' (football/basketball) are watching the schools rake in $$$ based on their efforts. As such, the socialism comes into play when water polo and badmitten are asking for a portion of pay, whether it is equal or proportional, but that is secondary to the initial athletes to address, the 'earners'.

Its gonna happen, the question for the NCAA is if they want to hit the issue head on or continue to halfheartedly talk about the "student-athlete". I do believe a carefully considered policy could allow athletes to receive some compensation equally across programs.

I agree this has been coming, and at some point WILL boil over. NCAA has clung to 'student-athelete' forever, but it's been a farce ever since the schools started getting mega millions from tv contracts and bowl games and March Madness. Once the schools started getting overpaid, things went commercial, and we've had 1-and-done or 3-and-done kids giving a head fake to education and using the school as a path to professional sports.

I can see a situation where Cali leads with this bill, and others follow, and we finally see the P5 split from the NCAA for football, and maybe basketball. It goes full capitalist and schools (and conferences) do anything and everything to maximize their revenues, including escalating pay for college athletes to mirror what has happened to professional athletes. I don't think this kills the NCAA, but leaves it with all the non-revenue sports where true student-athletes remain.

 

[TLB]

No, just had some personal changes, but all good. :)

That's great news! Have you decided on your pronouns yet?

I'm just messing with you. Glad you're back.

Same here. I have no idea if it was serious or not, and it is your personal changes....I just couldn't resist an open chance to throw a joke in there.

 

[5-Star Finger]

I love the dodging going on here. Answer the question:

Would you pay these prices plus the $350 a ticket to watch the current roster of Florida compete with the current roster of Georgia if the teams instead of representing those schools they were the Hogtown Bandits and North Georgia Buttsniffers? Would there be message boards dedicated to the Hogtown Bandits - even if they played better football than a team named the Florida Gators? Would 80,000 people show up for a team not named the Florida Gators in Gainesville? Would you pay for an upgrade package to watch the Bandits on TV so you never have to miss a game?



We all know the answer to this. So, most of the athletes themselves do not bring value to this product. The University brings the value. A few of them are so good they could be national stars. No problem with them getting endorsements. A few more could be local celebrities that could get ad spots with car dealerships, pizza joints etc. Again, no problem with that.

But the idea on top of everything else they are owed a salary is ridiculous. They could be replaced in a second with kids from Division III across the board and we'd all go to the games and tune in because we love our Gators like the Dawgs love their Dawgs and for whatever reason the Vols keep loving the Vols.

 

[Ancient Reptile]

Its not like California teams were ever going to be in the NCAA playoffs anyway.

They will now.

 

[Sec14Gator]

Guess what, if you are an employee being given free housing, food and clothing that gets taxed too.

This is by far the most interesting question. Would the IRS really come at football players making money to argue that not only the endorsement money they are receiving (which is what the Cali law is about - not book and room values), but that the typical allowance for food, room, board, etc are now no longer subject to income exceptions because they are otherwise being paid due to their activities as an NCAA athlete. Essentially, does taxable income make the non-taxable income taxable/no longer excepted from tax.

 

[PastyStoole]

I'm so happy (for example) for the Stanford Water Polo team... this has been a long time coming.

Completely out of context, but I dated a girl in high school who ended up going to Stanford. She met a guy there who was the captain of the water polo team and a US Olympian. They got married and had kids, their daughters were on the USA Olympic water polo team in Rio. I'm just guessing here, but had she stayed at home and married me instead, her life might have been somewhat less idyllic.

 

[Sec14Gator]

disagree, it's not socialism. It's capitalism - the 'earners' (football/basketball) are watching the schools rake in $$$ based on their efforts. As such, the socialism comes into play when water polo and badmitten are asking for a portion of pay, whether it is equal or proportional, but that is secondary to the initial athletes to address, the 'earners'.

Exactly, this is the opposite of socialism. Again, it's funny how this dispute is lining up.

Also, if @Swamp Donkey and @SeabeeGator think this results in losing Cali teams, opposed to other states falling in line, want to set up a bet NCAA does not bar all California teams from NCAA events beyond perhaps a few day reaction that gets recalled?

most of the athletes themselves do not bring value to this product. The University brings the value. A few of them are so good they could be national stars. No problem with them getting endorsements. A few more could be local celebrities that could get ad spots with car dealerships, pizza joints etc. Again, no problem with that.

But the idea on top of everything else they are owed a salary is ridiculous. They could be replaced in a second with kids from Division III across the board and we'd all go to the games and tune in because we love our Gators like the Dawgs love their Dawgs and for whatever reason the Vols keep loving the Vols.

It is only the highlighted portion that is in the California law. There is not a salary component. You don't actually disagree with the California law based on this post.

 

[Jack o' Diamonds]

Every business in Alabama will have ad accounts set up for the football team..

 

[B52G8rAC]

Hell ya, its about time. Pay them!

They are already paid. About $250000 on average for a four year degree, room, board, fees, tuition and free publicity for the league. If they violate NCAA rules put the institution on probation, keep them out of the post season, and limit scholarships to those who obey the rules. Screw California, New York, and the rest of 'em.

 

[Bait'n Gator]

Completely out of context, but I dated a girl in high school who ended up going to Stanford. She met a guy there who was the captain of the water polo team and a US Olympian. They got married and had kids, their daughters were on the USA Olympic water polo team in Rio. I'm just guessing here, but had she stayed at home and married me instead, her life might have been somewhat less idyllic.

You should go find that guy right now and challenge him to a fight. Remind her what she missed out on.

 

[PastyStoole]

You should go find that guy right now and challenge him to a fight. Remind her what she missed out on.

Trust me, if I could find a way to fly out to California and ball this woman I would. That would set everything straight, at least in my mind, between me and this golden boy.

 

[Double Gator Dad]

.01% chance of this being the result. Just destroy the entire PAC 12 and all of its TV rights? The result of that is there is no more NCAA and the Power 5 go it alone. It would be NCAA suicide. Rather, every other state is going to follow California's law. No way a state like Georgia or Alabama will let their football team be disadvantaged. The Carolinas will follow suit for basketball.



There are lots of arguments that this is a bad move by California and the wrong result for college sports, but this argument, that the values equate, is nonsense, non-American, and, ironically, "stupid". There is no way Tebow's scholarship was only worth his schooling, books, food, etc. The exposure he received in return was arguably his greatest value from it, but he was restricted from realizing on that value when in school.

The notion that someone has received enough, so they should not get their full worth is antithetical to capitalism and the American dream. Without even looking it up, I'm guessing that while you call this stupid, you are banging the drum against "socialism" in the political forum. It is also ironic, though, that the most socialist state is fighting for individuals to separate themselves from the heard based on gifts they were primarily born with, opposed to earned. Seems like a privilege of birth to run fast or jump high while being 6'3", 240 lbs. Again, I don't care where you fall on the politics, it is just ironic how the different sides have lined up on seemingly the "wrong" or "opposite" side from the rest of their positions.

This comment would be logical if every player was Tim Tebow and that this will impact only the star players.
This is step one in a process that will eliminate amateurism from college sports in a few years. Once we begin paying football players, the non-revenue women's sports will demand pay as well labeling the NCAA a sexist organization. THIS is where the socialism comes into play. You will be taking money earned (your word) by one group and given to non-earners. I haven't looked up the definition either but I bet you will find that this closely resembles the spirit of socialism.

I do not visit the political forum, there are enough places to argue already so I don't look for them.

My comment about socialism refers in part to the fact that a state that is literally crumbling in front of us, has time for menial laws like this but no time or energy to address the hundreds of thousands of homeless people living in their streets. But who cares about that when we can ensure that a few football players can cash in on their talent and still pretend to be student athletes.

Not sure what kind of herd you are referring to above.

 

[soflagator]

No it isnt

Even if you turn out to not be very good? A guy like Justin Williams never contributes anything of value to his team--certainly nothing even remotely close to his recruiting projection--but gets paid while he's at a great University for 5 years, and hypothetically walks away with multiple degrees despite bringing nothing to the table? To me, that's insane.

And the reality is there are more "Justin Williams's" on the team than "Tim Tebow's/Percy Harvin's".

 

[G8trwood]

Next coming NCAA draft

 

[CU-UF]

Even if you turn out to not be very good? A guy like Justin Williams never contributes anything of value to his team--certainly nothing even remotely close to his recruiting projection--but gets paid while he's at a great University for 5 years, and hypothetically walks away with multiple degrees despite bringing nothing to the table? To me, that's insane.

And the reality is there are more "Justin Williams's" on the team than "Tim Tebow's/Percy Harvin's".

So the 5am practices, the travel, the scout team work all the things that go into developing a team and putting a product on the field that generates all that income to the schools and conferences? I disagree. Perhaps in a pure scenario you could somehow weigh the value of a starter versus non-starter. Nonetheless, 4 years tuition and a small stipend at best might be valued at 150K? meanwhile over that 4 years the school has received probably something close to $200 mill?! (someone can correct me). I am just throwing out an ideal, but the premise that I firmly believe is that the athletes should be paid. Paying all of them the same amount into a trust fund that can only be accessed in a certain amount of time is just an idea.

 

[Gatordiddy]

had she stayed at home and married me instead, her life might have been somewhat less idyllic

you are so self-aware.
very proud of you

 

[NavetG8r]

So I have a question. Say I have a company and I'm hiring. What is a realistic starting salary for an employee without a college degree in today's job market?

 

[maheo30]

the premise that I firmly believe is that the athletes should be paid.

With what? Fsu has been deep in the red for 2 years. They will be this season as well. They hope to get back to breaking even in a few years. Based on their current attendance, this is unlikely. They aren't the only power 5 school either. Where are the salaries coming from? And I assume you are okay with tax payer dollars being used to pay these athletes since many power 5 schools get millions in subsidies.

"Just 23 of 228 athletics departments at NCAA Division I public schools generated enough money on their own to cover their expenses in 2012. Of that group, 16 also received some type of subsidy—and 10 of those 16 athletics departments received more subsidy money in 2012 than they did in 2011." ~ Steve Berkowitz, USA Today

 

[soflagator]

So the 5am practices, the travel, the scout team work all the things that go into developing a team and putting a product on the field that generates all that income to the schools and conferences? I disagree. Perhaps in a pure scenario you could somehow weigh the value of a starter versus non-starter. Nonetheless, 4 years tuition and a small stipend at best might be valued at 150K? meanwhile over that 4 years the school has received probably something close to $200 mill?! (someone can correct me). I am just throwing out an ideal, but the premise that I firmly believe is that the athletes should be paid. Paying all of them the same amount into a trust fund that can only be accessed in a certain amount of time is just an idea.

You can get walk-ons, and/or one of us to do that. None of that is predicated on them being good at their particular trade. So if we're truly making it a performance based business, that level of employee would be shown the door. And again, what about career ending injury? Would schools still be on the hook? Not if it's a true "capitalist" system.

"Sorry you blew your knee out and a football career is out of the equation. But also, your scholarship is revoked, this will be your last check, and you have to be out by next Friday. Take care."

As for the number, yours could be right or closer than mine. I read somewhere he estimated overall value including tuition, housing, meals, treatment, clothing, etc. was close to 350k.