Come meet the Winchester 1897 Trench Gun

[Detroitgator]

I have had guns pointed at me on a few occasions and was somewhat amazed looking back at how quickly my brain processed things and enabled me to act calmly - even to the point of recognizing the voice of someone who was behind me, who I had not seen in awhile and didn't really know well, enabling me to tell him by name not to shoot me. On a side note, I decided never to ask him how close he was to firing.

Smart... and he is very likely glad you never did.

 

[Gator By Marriage]

Smart... and he is very likely glad you never did.

Yeah, I kinda figured we’d both be happier.

 

[Detroitgator]

Yeah, I kinda figured we’d both be happier.

good figurin'...

you always analyze, always do a matter of fact after action review, but a lot 'o schit is better left unsaid, and you just wrestle with it yourself. Better to personally go with the fantasy than know the reality, and hell, people lie anyway (albeit well intentioned) and are still left to wrestle with their own deamons.

 

[Gator By Marriage]

good figurin'...

you always analyze, always do a matter of fact after action review, but a lot 'o schit is better left unsaid, and you just wrestle with it yourself. Better to personally go with the fantasy than know the reality, and hell, people lie anyway (albeit well intentioned) and are still left to wrestle with their own deamons.

Correct.
I laugh about it now, but it took a few years to become a funny story for me.

 

[Detroitgator]

Correct.
I laugh about it now, but it took a few years to become a funny story for me.

My fantasy is truly having a small group where you could TRULY talk about the "un-saids," but I don't think that'll ever happen (and maybe shouldn't). I do have a few where we will talk things my neighbors could never comprehend (and its why I hate neighborhood parties or just talk to wives (also problematic)), but there are always those moments where the conversation just goes silent for a few seconds when something is said, and we all are having our own private memories, but nothing is said.

I've mentioned it before, but the block I grew up on was 50% people my parents age, and 50% WWII vets (some both WWII and Korea), 50% of whom were actually in combat... they were EXACTLY Clint Eastwood in El Camino (but he was a Korea vet). Everyone had a detached single garage that was their "man cave, escape from the wife" place with a fridge full of beer and their car. As a kid, I soooooo wanted them to tell "real" stories about combat and they never did, and I now understand the looks they would give me (anywhere from pity to disdain, never maliciously). One guy finally broke out pictures of Iwo Jima to try to horrify me (like that's going to work on a 10 year old kid!). My grandparents had a little cottage outside of Ottawa that we went to every summer. Next door neighbor was a fireman that had somehow been in Vietnam as a Canadian. We were always running around playing "guns/war" making silly assed gun sounds. One day, Ken came out front of his shack with an AR-15 and let rip about 8 rounds and screamed at us about reality.

I get all that now. ;)

 

[Gator By Marriage]

My fantasy is truly having a small group where you could TRULY talk about the "un-saids," but I don't think that'll ever happen (and maybe shouldn't). I do have a few where we will talk things my neighbors could never comprehend (and its why I hate neighborhood parties or just talk to wives (also problematic)), but there are always those moments where the conversation just goes silent for a few seconds when something is said, and we all are having our own private memories, but nothing is said.

I've mentioned it before, but the block I grew up on was 50% people my parents age, and 50% WWII vets (some both WWII and Korea), 50% of whom were actually in combat... they were EXACTLY Clint Eastwood in El Camino (but he was a Korea vet). Everyone had a detached single garage that was their "man cave, escape from the wife" place with a fridge full of beer and their car. As a kid, I soooooo wanted them to tell "real" stories about combat and they never did, and I now understand the looks they would give me (anywhere from pity to disdain, never maliciously). One guy finally broke out pictures of Iwo Jima to try to horrify me (like that's going to work on a 10 year old kid!). My grandparents had a little cottage outside of Ottawa that we went to every summer. Next door neighbor was a fireman that had somehow been in Vietnam as a Canadian. We were always running around playing "guns/war" making silly assed gun sounds. One day, Ken came out front of his shack with an AR-15 and let rip about 8 rounds and screamed at us about reality.

I get all that now. ;)

I am blessed to live near 3 other retired guys who I have known for over 30 years. We try to get together once every week or two (usually ends up being once a month at best where all four of us are there). If there is no one else around, we might, occasionally, have one of those talks. Probably near the bottom of the list of things we talk about. Interesting, no?

 

[Detroitgator]

I am blessed to live near 3 other retired guys who I have known for over 30 years. We try to get together once every week or two (usually ends up being once a month at best where all four of us are there). If there is no one else around, we might, occasionally, have one of those talks. Probably near the bottom of the list of things we talk about. Interesting, no?

And I'm cursed to live in a neighborhood that is 50% retired Navy and Marine Corps pilots.... PILOTS! PILOTS!!!

It's a special kind of hell/purgatory! It's why I travel...

 

[Gator By Marriage]

And I'm cursed to live in a neighborhood that is 50% retired Navy and Marine Corps pilots.... PILOTS! PILOTS!!!

It's a special kind of hell/purgatory! It's why I travel...

And I know how you found out they were pilots; they told you......unasked.

 

[Detroitgator]

And I know how you found out they were pilots; they told you......unasked.

Yes, and they have lots of bumper stickers proclaiming it... right next to their bumper stickers about their kids!

On a mental therapy note, I have been letting Son #1 (he's 22 now) meet a few actual "friends" in the last year, it's been great for me because he's said repeatedly, "I understand a lot of things now that didn't make sense before." It's been a big relief for me personally.

 

[Gator By Marriage]

Yes, and they have lots of bumper stickers proclaiming it... right next to their bumper stickers about their kids!

On a mental therapy note, I have been letting Son #1 (he's 22 now) meet a few actual "friends" in the last year, it's been great for me because he's said repeatedly, "I understand a lot of things now that didn't make sense before." It's been a big relief for me personally.

My kids have (for better or worse) known a lot of those guys in my life their whole lives, so they grew up around it probably a bit more than yours. On the funny side, some of my former colleagues look a little rough so my kids are not the least bit surprised when I run into one somewhere, that a thug looking guy is friends with their dad. I have seen some odd looks from their friends and some of my neighbors though. (It was an adjustment for Mrs G back when we were dating as well.)
A couple years ago my son and I did a drive to Purdue (every bit of 8+ hours) and got into some deep discussions. He screwed up the courage to ask some questions he always wondered about and I was candid. It certainly opened up his eyes a bit and it, unexpectedly, has made our relationship much closer.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

And I'm cursed to live in a neighborhood that is 50% retired Navy and Marine Corps pilots.... PILOTS! PILOTS!!!

you can always bang their stewardesses errrr.... trophy wives while they're out of town.

 

[Detroitgator]

My kids have (for better or worse) known a lot of those guys in my life their whole lives, so they grew up around it probably a bit more than yours. On the funny side, some of my former colleagues look a little rough so my kids are not the least bit surprised when I run into one somewhere, that a thug looking guy is friends with their dad. I have seen some odd looks from their friends and some of my neighbors though. (It was an adjustment for Mrs G back when we were dating as well.)
A couple years ago my son and I did a drive to Purdue (every bit of 8+ hours) and got into some deep discussions. He screwed up the courage to ask some questions he always wondered about and I was candid. It certainly opened up his eyes a bit and it, unexpectedly, has made our relationship much closer.

Yeah, I'm with ya. It's not because I am reluctant to talk, there's just so much I can't say and I work(ed) in a much narrower bandwidth than most with this "problem". That said, starting 5 years ago, with lots of time floating on the river at Ginnie Springs with Son #1 (and some Russian Standard), I did explain a lot/answer as many questions as I could and it's been really good. Same to a lesser extent with Son #2. But even then, I know they wondered what was real and what was not. That's why Son #1 getting to meet and spend time with some people was important to me, to hear what can be said from others, not just from me. When he knew he was moving to Tampa for sure, I introduced him to a retired SF LTC who works down there. It's a guy he's seen pictures of me with in Afghanistan, numerous times, going back to 2007 when Joe was just a CPT. Now he invites Son #1 to SOCOM to fight/train at lunch, they've gone shooting twice, and, most importantly, it's another adult male with similar experiences that he can just talk about life with. It's been years since I've had to explain cuts, bruises, concussions, and scars as being from a "car accident" (or whatever), but now he understands.

It's all working out, it's just been lonely and frustrating, but hey, my choice, my consequence. I wouldn't trade the relationships I have with my kids for anything.

 

[Gator By Marriage]

Yeah, I'm with ya. It's not because I am reluctant to talk, there's just so much I can't say and I work(ed) in a much narrower bandwidth than most with this "problem". That said, starting 5 years ago, with lots of time floating on the river at Ginnie Springs with Son #1 (and some Russian Standard), I did explain a lot/answer as many questions as I could and it's been really good. Same to a lesser extent with Son #2. But even then, I know they wondered what was real and what was not. That's why Son #1 getting to meet and spend time with some people was important to me, to hear what can be said from others, not just from me. When he knew he was moving to Tampa for sure, I introduced him to a retired SF LTC who works down there. It's a guy he's seen pictures of me with in Afghanistan, numerous times, going back to 2007 when Joe was just a CPT. Now he invites Son #1 to SOCOM to fight/train at lunch, they've gone shooting twice, and, most importantly, it's another adult male with similar experiences that he can just talk about life with. It's been years since I've had to explain cuts, bruises, concussions, and scars as being from a "car accident" (or whatever), but now he understands.

It's all working out, it's just been lonely and frustrating, but hey, my choice, my consequence. I wouldn't trade the relationships I have with my kids for anything.

Amen.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

My kids have (for better or worse) known a lot of those guys in my life their whole lives, so they grew up around it probably a bit more than yours. On the funny side, some of my former colleagues look a little rough so my kids are not the least bit surprised when I run into one somewhere, that a thug looking guy is friends with their dad.

Dad, why do you have rough looking dudes as friends?

I used to work in a motorcycle shop as a younger man.

Whaat about those other guys, Daddy?

an international motorcycle shop.

the problem is never really been the kids. for me it's always been the kids friends and friends parents.

 

[Gator By Marriage]

I used to work in a motorcycle shop as a younger man.

what about those other guys Daddy?

an international motorcycle shop.

the problem is never really been the kids for me it's always been the kids friends.

Many years ago I once asked a couple of buddies help move a shed. It was aluminum and I just needed a guy for each corner. It was five minutes of light labor and with the inducement of a chili lunch and some beer, it was an easy sell. After they left, Mrs G looked at me and said “When they first got here I was thinking if you were my son and you’d intro’d those guys as your friends, I’d be very worried.” Ironically, she adores one of those guys to this day and treats him like the little brother she never had. They looked like hell, but had hearts of gold.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

I'd love to see a video of you reloading like that. Do you begin timing from the spent shooting position or from the inverted position. Regardless that's impressive time.

No can do on the video thing....still under advisement to stay off youtube/sm in general(wonder why there hasn't been any Shelby vids for a while?;)) In fact I would advise ANYONE to not post pics/videos or anything else about the firearms they may or may not own or have in their possession.....But yes it's from the inverted position and it's actually a 2+2+1..........the first shell goes from the velcro'd shot card(home made side saddle) directly into the camber as an "emergency reload".....


But if it makes all the other experts happy.....no I haven't done it on a threesome range, while underwater getting butt raped by an elephant and juggling chainsaws with bloody hands.....

 

[Swamp Donkey]

you should definitely try the threesome range if you can.

 

[Detroitgator]

Dad, why do you have rough looking dudes as friends?

I used to work in a motorcycle shop as a younger man.

Whaat about those other guys, Daddy?

an international motorcycle shop.

the problem is never really been the kids. for me it's always been the kids friends and friends parents.

Yeah, that's why home is home for me, and why I hate the neighborhood parties.

 

[Detroitgator]

No can do on the video thing....still under advisement to stay off youtube/sm in general(wonder why there hasn't been any Shelby vids for a while?;)) In fact I would advise ANYONE to not post pics/videos or anything else about the firearms they may or may not own or have in their possession.....But yes it's from the inverted position and it's actually a 2+2+1..........the first shell goes from the velcro'd shot card(home made side saddle) directly into the camber as an "emergency reload".....


But if it makes all the other experts happy.....no I haven't done it on a threesome range, while underwater getting butt raped by an elephant and juggling chainsaws with bloody hands.....

Let me put it another way... when the day comes that you actually get your shot at that threesome, and you've just tried your coolest threesome move, but you were a bit overly excited and you did something just a cv nt hair too fast, and your dropping your seed all over the ground when you could have driven one smoothly into that beautifully tight chamber and been ready to go, but you weren't, and the other guy in your threesome hits you in the forehead with his jizz, your last thought will probably have been, "I shoulda just stuck with my basic sex move, it works." ;)

 

[crosscreekcooter]

Let me put it another way... when the day comes that you actually get your shot at that threesome, and you've just tried your coolest threesome move, but you were a bit overly excited and you did something just a cv nt hair too fast, and your dropping your seed all over the ground when you could have driven one smoothly into that beautifully tight chamber and been ready to go, but you weren't, and the other guy in your threesome hits you in the forehead with his jizz, your last thought will probably have been, "I shoulda just stuck with my basic sex move, it works." ;)

This is quite the tortured analogy that I'm afraid I can't unsee.