Have Our Coaches Prejudged K. Toney Wrong?

BMF

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I wonder how much time was spent this week teaching the skill players to take a knee before they get into the endzone....
 

78

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I struggle to think of a strength.

I'm sure he probably sees it. He has to see it, right? Imo he just is so conservative that instinctively he prefers to play the upperclassmen even when the talent gap is wide.

He came advertised as a balanced playcaller. Spurrier was a relatively balanced playcaller, too. So what is balanced? It differs depending on who's describing. Let's take a balanced mutual fund for example. The bond side is usually the same stodgy thing, intermediate investment-grade fixed income. It's the equity side that makes the difference. We were hoping it was sprinkled with technology. What we got was plain consumer staples, buy and hold.
 

rogdochar

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In practices, prior to the Spring Game, it was leaked that Toney was a dazzler. Then in the Spring Game, he dazzled us. Then in the real games, he stayed on point. Most on here say get him the ball more because they are failing to adequately use our most elusive player.
 

TLB

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Toney is, to me, what we expected Massey to be but hasn't as yet.

I do not think he can throw consistently enough to be a QB, though I would like to see him throw from the Wildcat once in awhile as it is absolutely screaming to the defense to cover his running ability.

I do think he can be the slot guy we expected Powell, and then Massey, to be for us - if he has the confidence to make catches over the middle where a hit is imminent. So far, his catches are in the flat or similar areas where he has a moment to focus on the catch, ground himself, then use his natural elusiveness. I don't know that he has the mind to catch over the middle, but if he could catch with momentum he'd be killing teams now.
 

diehardg8r

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The biggest problem I see is the inability to get the ball in the hands of the real talent in space so they can make plays. Jet sweeps and bubble screens aren't really it. Getting Toney, Massey or Powell on a LB across the middle with some other routes clear out the safeties should get us some big plays and put some stress on the defense.
 

MidwestChomp

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Creative play calling will solve this issue. To bad we aren't seeing it. Especially with Cleveland out, Toney needs the ball more.
 

AlexDaGator

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Slow down fellas.

Yes, he's magic with the ball in his hands, but as a QB he is inaccurate and has a weak arm, and we have no idea how good he would be at seeing the field and making progressions.

He's no Mike Vick or Lamar Jackson. Those guys are faster than Toney and throw bullets.

As a WR or RB, he's not a good blocker. Not to say he can't become one, but he's just never had to do it. Given how quick he is with lateral movement, you would expect him to develop into a good blocker, but that will take some time.

As a WR, he doesn't have great hands and doesn't know how to run routes. Again, not to say he can't turn into a great player at the position, he just doesn't have the experience.

He's a true freshman. Remember Percy as a true freshman? He was a sensation. Let me remind you what his first 4 games in O&B looked like:

Game 1 Southern Miss: 3 catches, 4 carries
Game 2 UCF: 4 catches, 2 carries
Game 3 UT: 1 catch, 1 carry
Game 4 UK: 1 carry
(he did suffer some injury against UT that limited him)

That's 16 touches in his first 4 games for Percy.

Through 4 games, Toney has 6 carries, 11 catches, 2 passes, and 1 KO return. Let's not count the return and just say 19 touches for Toney in his first 4 games.

Percy did get a little dinged against UT but unlike Toney who was a QB in HS, Percy was an ATH in HS playing both RB and WR so he was more polished.

Malik Davis is also a true freshman but he was a 4 year starter at RB in high school.

I love Toney and I've said before the staff needs to get the ball into his hands because he makes things happen. I don't have a lot of nice things to say about our coaching, but they have been giving him more and more each week. Somebody earlier in the thread lamented that we don't have a few plays for him as QB. We do. The announcers call it a "wildcat" but it's still Toney playing QB. He has both run and thrown (or tried to throw) out of that formation. He has the talent. He just needs to develop (which is something this staff has not excelled at). We can't just feed a true freshman playing a new position the ball 30 times a game and expect to set the SEC on fire.

The kid is a stud, but we need to be a little patient.

The next play I want to see out of him is an option with him at QB and Malik Davis as the pitch man. All we need is a block to set the edge and that play could be fun. I think that's a better play than having him throw the bubble screen.



Alex.
 

diehardg8r

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Slow down fellas.

Yes, he's magic with the ball in his hands, but as a QB he is inaccurate and has a weak arm, and we have no idea how good he would be at seeing the field and making progressions.

He's no Mike Vick or Lamar Jackson. Those guys are faster than Toney and throw bullets.

As a WR or RB, he's not a good blocker. Not to say he can't become one, but he's just never had to do it. Given how quick he is with lateral movement, you would expect him to develop into a good blocker, but that will take some time.

As a WR, he doesn't have great hands and doesn't know how to run routes. Again, not to say he can't turn into a great player at the position, he just doesn't have the experience.

He's a true freshman. Remember Percy as a true freshman? He was a sensation. Let me remind you what his first 4 games in O&B looked like:

Game 1 Southern Miss: 3 catches, 4 carries
Game 2 UCF: 4 catches, 2 carries
Game 3 UT: 1 catch, 1 carry
Game 4 UK: 1 carry
(he did suffer some injury against UT that limited him)

That's 16 touches in his first 4 games for Percy.

Through 4 games, Toney has 6 carries, 11 catches, 2 passes, and 1 KO return. Let's not count the return and just say 19 touches for Toney in his first 4 games.

Percy did get a little dinged against UT but unlike Toney who was a QB in HS, Percy was an ATH in HS playing both RB and WR so he was more polished.

Malik Davis is also a true freshman but he was a 4 year starter at RB in high school.

I love Toney and I've said before the staff needs to get the ball into his hands because he makes things happen. I don't have a lot of nice things to say about our coaching, but they have been giving him more and more each week. Somebody earlier in the thread lamented that we don't have a few plays for him as QB. We do. The announcers call it a "wildcat" but it's still Toney playing QB. He has both run and thrown (or tried to throw) out of that formation. He has the talent. He just needs to develop (which is something this staff has not excelled at). We can't just feed a true freshman playing a new position the ball 30 times a game and expect to set the SEC on fire.

The kid is a stud, but we need to be a little patient.

The next play I want to see out of him is an option with him at QB and Malik Davis as the pitch man. All we need is a block to set the edge and that play could be fun. I think that's a better play than having him throw the bubble screen.



Alex.

Just for the record, I have never advocated for him at QB other than wildcat. But he does need to get the ball a little more.
 

aka

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Mac said, as he learned the offense more he would get more plays. I don't see that as a bad thing.
 

aka

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I would think that it might show up at practice. We are all pretty much in agreement about Nuss.
 

t-gator

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Lol... Have you guys ever coached any level of football? Thats not how it works. Coaches don't generally hold players back. Of course there's exceptions to the rule, but usually when you step on a practice field the most talented players are easily identified. I understand your unwavering hope, but I'm guessing he's not playing QB because he isn't any good. You need more than quickness, speed and agility to be L. Jackson. CFB is full of great athletes. If it were that easy everyone would have a dynamic QB.
Lets not pretend like macs even a decent qb evaluator. This is the guy that had will grier and treon harris neck and neck. Also the same guy who told will grier to transfer and passed on lamar Jackson.

We ask Franks to throw 3 different passes. A screen, wheeel route and the deep ball. Toney is very capable of making those throws.
 

t-gator

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I don't get all the "he's not a good enough passer " comments. Who the eff do we have on the roster that is? Atleast we could uptempo and run some zone read stuff.

Either way, our coaches are just gonna screen pass em to death and hope they forget to send a corner out there again.
 

NavetG8r

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I watched a lot of the very limited media coverage of the practices leading up to this season. Out of all the QBs, Tony was least accurate. He was almost always too far behind the receivers, or too low or too high. Kid's a fantastic athlete, but he's not a college QB. He needed to be moved somewhere where he is the receiver of passes, not the deliverer. He's too inconsistent throwing the ball.
 

jmskjrgator

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By the thread title, I'm asking could Toney be another QB similar to Lamar Jackson of Louisville? Do you really have adequate confidence in the Mac consortium at talent evaluation, QB-development or use? Disgust please.

>> correction = last word in the title should be Wrongly. Sorry.

Rog, I would either give the ball to Toney or put him in motion eighty percent of the plays. Can you imagine how that would also help Malik David? At the same time send a couple receivers deep to open up the field. Use them to ware out a defense. Then watch what happens in the second half. I cannot imagine having a better pair than Toney and Davis. If Franks matures a little our offense is about to get much better. I have a lot of hope right now.
 

FireFoley

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I am not going to judge Toney's throwing ability based on one pass that he was asked to throw against Vandy, a 40 yd. horizontal throw that bounced about halfway there. My question was "Why in the hell would you have him throw that pass?". Toney's first direct snap netted good yards against Vandy. The second time he took a direct snap, I noticed Vandy dropped the safety onto the LOS and Vandy had 9 guys on the LOS and 2 CB's guarding our 2 WR's. I told the person next to me that they are going to have Toney throw it today from a direct snap b/c Vandy is putting 9 guys on the LOS. But I thought for sure they were going to do a version of what I call the "auburn play". Have Toney run to the edge like it is a sweep, have the linemen block like it is a draw play, have the WR's run to the CB's face, fake a block and run. As Toney approaches the LOS, he reads the CB's. if they play run, he throws over the top to an open WR. If not, he runs. But NO, Butters is not only too Stupid to think of that on his own, and he can't even watch film on every other team in D-1 to see that they ALL have some version of that play. Heck Penn State ran a version against Indiana with Barkley, the RB, throwing a TD. But alas, they called a WR slip screen, that requires a 40 yard sideways pass. That is right up Butters sleeve!
 

Swamp Donkey

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I watched a lot of the very limited media coverage of the practices leading up to this season. Out of all the QBs, Tony was least accurate. He was almost always too far behind the receivers, or too low or too high. Kid's a fantastic athlete, but he's not a college QB. He needed to be moved somewhere where he is the receiver of passes, not the deliverer. He's too inconsistent throwing the ball.
You said the same shyt about Franks last year. You dingleberries had him transferring and never playing because of a high school backup. Or moving to TE.
 

NavetG8r

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You said the same shyt about Franks last year. You dingleberries had him transferring and never playing because of a high school backup. Or moving to TE.

I never said no such thing about Franks. Franks has always had the physical tools, he just hasn't got the mental part down yet. Maybe he struggled a bit on the corner routes, but he's worked his tail off in the off season to get better at those throws. Tony is all over the place. He's terrible as a passer. I'm pretty sure we read an article where most of his completions were to wide open receivers who got behind the defenders. Otherwise, he hardly ever threw a pass. I doubt he threw 1/4th of the passes Franks threw in HS. There was a reason for that. He stinks at passing.
 

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